Berhalter announces 23 player squad for the 2019 Gold Cup

Plus, isn't Morales just kind of bad?

 

1)that formation was just an experiment so pretending like thats the lineup going forward is just silly. he is going to play his 4-1-4-1 lineup 99.9% of the time


------------------steffan
--adams---long----brooks---warm body
------------trapp/bradley
--morris/baird/boyd---mckennie--pulisic---arriola
------------zardes/altidore

and no weah and sarge do not beat the hell out of our current setup is.

I get everyone loves the backup quarterback but at some point be realistic

 

four years ago he was but the beatup version that you would get today isn't better he'd also be hurt most the time so that only would help you so much even if you got an average version when healthy.

 

The premise of this comment seems to be that unless someone is starting for a B1 team (two of which are vying to be Europa/UCL teams and the third is a team that our leading GK is going to), Berhalter shouldn't even bring them in for a camp.

Are you f***ing kidding me? These guys aren't competing against Kante, they're competing against run-of-the-mill MLS players, none of whom are vying for either Best XI or getting a contract with a major league team.

We just gave a look to Mihailović, Robinson, Yueill and Trapp and your point is that Johnson, Chandler and Morales are so far behind these guys that they don't deserve a look? Did you watch the Jamaica game? Yikes.

 

Everyone should have to compete for their spot. The problem I see is that guys have been handed spots when there is competition available. Nobody was worse than Trapp on Wednesday (maybe Djorde). But from the minute GB took over, or at least the 40 man roster was released, he has been guaranteed a spot. We have one of the best 20 players in the world at his position and Trapp is an auto pick and that other player is playing out of position. Even beyond that inanity, there are plenty of other American DMs that have never been given a chance. It has just been handed to him.

Omar is not the 4th best CB in the pool, even with Brooks injured. He is not high potential. He has been gifted a spot. Even beyond CCV, Besler and many others in MLS are simply better players and have played better historically for the USMNT.

Morris has done very little in MLS after not playing for over a year. He has been gifted a spot. He was awful in March too.

Zardes has been gifted a spot. Not only is Sargent better now, but has higher potential. Even beyond Sargent, there are other American strikers that have not been given a chance to compete for the spot. It was just handed to him.

If we are going to bring in anyone, regardless of age and potential, then we have not even allowed a large list of players to compete. If we are going to skew towards 2022 impact players, we have wasted a prime development opportunity for the best U23 talent with older, lesser players.

I think you saw some cracks in team morale against Jamaica. Guys like Trapp just didn't care, they had their spot and knew it. Guys who thought they might be on the bubble were frustrated with the guys who had made it and were playing terrible.

We will see how Pulisic, Adams, and McKennie react to the situation. Maybe they are so good, this team wins and nobody cares. But you have a team where there is competition for some players and about 8 players there as coach's pets.

 

who said sargent isn't still in the player pool you make it sound like he told him he was out forever. you feel like the gold cup doesn't matter then why does sargent have to play in it? his job is to get to the world cup and qualifying starts soon he doesn't have time to try kids just to make fans happy.

 

This roster pretty much confirms my fears when Berhalter was hired regarding USSF and the direction of the program. Missing the World Cup did not have the revolutionary impact we all thought and hoped it would. USSF pretty much just waited a year for the furor to die down and then continued with business as usual. An MLS coach with preference to MLS players to help grow the profile of MLS and its hometown stars.

I actually like Zardes and thought he was one of the better players in the 2016 Centenario, but he is not better than Josh Sargent, not in the past, not now, not in 2022. There is absolutely no way that Trapp or Bradley are better options at the 6 than Tyler Adams, who is excelling in that position on a top 3 team in a top 3 league. When the light hitting, rose-colored glasses US soccer media is actually questioning you and 98% of BigSoccer disagrees with you, something is obviously very wrong.

Across the roster there is preference given to less talented MLS players over guys playing and succeeding at higher levels overseas. Gonzalez, the guy who's terrible own goal directly caused us to miss the WC, selected over CCV. Lovitz over Lichaj and Robinson. Roldan over Morales. Morris over Sargent and Wooten. The list goes on...

We don't know where Pulisic and McKennie are going to play, but we know we're going to have Trapp and/or Bradley in the middle, Zardes up top, Adams stuck at RB. Building the national team around Trapp and Zardes instead of Pulisic and Adams and McKennie - it doesn't make any sense. That's why you see Berhalter struggling to explain it.

I'm not sure what it's going to take to get real change within the program if missing the World Cup didn't do it. Supposedly that was a financial doomsday scenario for USSF, but in the end it had little impact. That's why I don't think a fan boycott of the national team would help. Boycotting MLS would likely have a greater impact. Maybe a player uprising lead by Pulisic and Adams to demand more - the same level of excellence they experience day in and day out with their clubs.

Ultimately there is no light at the end of the tunnel, at least not yet. There is a glimmer at the U20 level, but it's going to take time. The best thing will be for Sargent and younger players to break though in Top 5 leagues and establish themselves so that there is no conceivable way that they could be left out. Although one wonders, if Sargent had broken through the same way that Adams did, would we see him out on the wing to make room for Zardes?

 

I'm not so sure it is going to go that way. If McKennie plays it might. I'm not so sure he will start. Jamaica showed that you can just push Roldan and Trapp off the ball. There is no reason T&T and Panama can't do the same. The team struggled with Costa Rica's C team pressing them and now Jamaica's B team. They didn't even try to play with Chile.

I have no idea about Guyana, but T&T, Panama, CR, Mexico are going to bully Trapp and the other soft midfielders that GB likes. Again, McKennie might solve that and Holmes might; but they are not going to be in front of the defense all the time. I doubt Bradley cares to get physical and Trapp can't and our elite DM is out wide.

GB has made the team even softer than they were at the end of the Hex. CONCACAF, even at home, will not be kind. We will still beat all these teams, but it is going to uglier than anyone expects and mostly through guys overcoming GB's system.

 

oh I dont know was anyone not bad in that match? Roldan was bad, sargent was bad, robinson was bad, arriola was bad, yueill was terrible, steffan was shaky on a few easy shots I mean that match is hardly the match to go by.

every coach is going to have players he prefers over other guys it doesn't make sense to get all upset about it. The guy likes trapp it is what it is. JK kept giving timmy chandler chances no matter how bad he played. It happens get over it.

stop with teh didnt care stuff there are no cracks in the team morale because the real engine of the team...wasn't on the pitch.

 

The big problem with USSF/Berhalter defenders is not the single argument defending a decision, it's the fact that every single decision is justified.

I can look singularly at Fabian, and understand the claim for him not to be in..."he's injured, he didn't play much, he's old!".

I can look singularly at Morales, and understand the claim..."he stunk four years ago, he only started 16 games!".

I can look singularly at the Sargent decision, and understand..."he didn't play much at Werder! He's still young, he needs a preseason with WB!"...

Or Adams at RB..."it's the system, he's going to be effective, need long diagonals".

The issue is not each individual argument, it's the collective. Every single decision and argument leads to calling in a player, and playing said player, who is a. not that skilled, b. too old, c. from MLS.

If you want to win the GC, you bring in the best collection of talent. Fabian and Morales are part of that, regardless of the circumstance. If you want youth, you can ignore them, but then you must ignore MB, Omar, and Ream.

One argument is fine, and I can understand it even. But when every single decision needs to be defended in favor of MLS and "system" players, it leads me to believe something is awry.

 

Like, seriously. He's 31 and playing his way off the field. We're probably not going to have to wait long to see how he compares against the dregs of MLS because honestly he's closer to making a move to New England or Chicago than he is to being a starter again in the Bundesliga.

 

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019...breaking-down-usmnts-official-gold-cup-roster

Points out Holmes was probably ticketed to the Lletget role anyway.

And points out why leave someone off U20 like he graduated only to deny his graduate school application summarily, and leave him no place. He is now on vacation unless the U23s set up a camp.

After all in context you have to remember this isn't the first time he jobbed Weah and Sargent. Sargent nominally got a go but it was his first 2019 cap after being sent to the U23s last time. And Weah still hasn't played with the senior team.

 

If our objective is win this summer. Who cares about WC2022, who would you rather have...Fab Jo or Lovitz?

 

Spot on. Where have we heard this before? Basically the last four years with Bradley, in the exact same spot. Nobody cared if he had to earn his spot and eventually won it (like he did when Klinsy was first hired), but he wasn't forced to compete with anybody. We are seeing the exact same situation.

 

True, this will probably happen soon. A guy over 30 who went back to MLS for a payday, and simply isn't the same player anymore, and likely shouldn't be on the USMNT anymore, or should at least be forced to earn a spot.

Wait, who are we talking about again???

 

Fabian will be a few days short of 36 years old in WC'22 and is already nowhere near the player he was 4-5 years ago.

 

I know he is. But to post the q again...if you want to win this summer, who are you taking - Fab Jo or Lovitz?

 

Morales has never impressed me much. Not Sweat bad. Just kind of there. Too many players just kind of there. I want difference makers.

That being said, I had hoped this year would see a delayed period of talent eval where we would run many bodies through camps and sort out who makes a difference. Concretely bring in all these people, see what they have, avoid these never ending abstracted exercises.

I even suggested taking some of these doubleheader weekends and running through 2 separate teams. Like Italy did on us. One team for LoN. One team for the friendly in Belgium. You can't quite do that for GC but nothing says we have to rapidly settle on a side and get right to gelling work.

Except maybe CYA. The risk of nights like Jamaica is people think you can't coach. In his case it's true and it's because he's clueless on selection. But running talent eval is a long termist exercise and not going to short term hand you a bunch of wins to wave back at the GM. But it's what this team needs, is to find the Holmes so it can send home Mihailovic.

 

Oh sorry. Misread your post.

If 2014 FJ was available I take him. But I have a hard time seeing 2019 FJ as an upgrade from the few saturday breakfasts I spent seeing him play for BM this past season.

 

This statement would be fine alone in a vacuum but c'mon, you know that it's hypocritical given that he's playing at a higher level than Bradley, even if he's not the player he was 4-5 years ago.

I posted this in another thread which is a less elegant way of saying exactly what yurch10 said in post #360 above.

 

I like your briefer posts, juvechelsea, as they are much more impactful.

I don't mind the failed experiments as long as we take lessons from them. If we learned that Trapp, Yueill, Milahovic, Robinson, CCV and Sargent can't cut it at the mid Hex level at this moment, that's an important lesson to have learned.

Conversely, if the only players who suffer any deleterious consequences are Milahovic, Robinson, CCV and Sargent while should-be-the-best-player-on-the-field Trapp is still viewed as a core player, WTF?

 

Yes, just in multiple spots.

We don't even have to try and figure out if the Championship is better than the Eredivisie or LigaMX or MLS. There are guys playing better in the same league that haven't even been called in to compete. I don't think in any sport it is good to have so many guys just gifted spots.

Omar has been outplayed in LigaMX by Alvarado of all people.
Morris has no position but whatever he is doing can probably be done by Memo Rodriguez
Trapp has been outplayed in MLS by Pomykal, if that isn't a like for like, there is Adams of course or Joe Corona or Sean Davis or Sands or Bedoya or Canouse or Feilhaber or Dax.
Zardes has been outplayed by Sapong and Agudelo and Saucedo would be right there if Petke had half a brain.

Alvarado, Rodriguez, Pomykal, Bedoya, Sands, Davis, Dax, Sapong, Agudelo, and Saucedo have never been in camp competing for a spot.

If we have to call in MLS players, and this was true in 2017 too, why do we not call in the best? Why are we writing names in pen on the roster of guys who clearly are not even the best player at their position in our domestic league?

 

That's a point - if I had been forced to choose a 30+ center back from MLS to bring back from the 2017 Hex, I would probably have gone for Besler, who I remember as being generally inoffensive - rather than Omar Gonzalez, who I remember as causing me to cringe a lot.

Why didn't Besler get an audition for the "average veteran center back who has no chance of being part of the future" role that is apparently part of our MNT setup?

 

If you like the dramatic, it could be the quote circulating out of KC about Bradley being a bad captain that nobody could talk to. Everyone figured that was Besler.

Besler was actually one of the better players in the last four games of the Hex.

I could probably list 10 CBs better than Omar who also wouldn't have the baggage. What does it do to team morale when you bring such a player back over many other players? Does Will Trapp care that he played so poorly against Jamaica? Gregg has Omar there, who almost single handedly caused the greatest disaster in USMNT history, what can Trapp do to get dropped?

It is almost like Omar is on the team because he was so horrible in the last Hex.

 

FJ is 31 and I didn't like how he acted in that Mexico playoff. I think he has played well some days so it's more Mike Bradley than Omar, but same difference for me. We should have thrown the old farts overboard for the first few years of the cycle and only come back to people this old in an emergency. The team needs a longer horizon than the game this weekend. I am disappointed that a team that blew 2018 with a win tomorrow mentality -- that only won one tournament -- is right back there for 2022. I expected not just system change but personnel change and a mentality shift at the management level.