One person's "obvious" is another person's "the concourses were packed". Seriously, we've been through this all before. The entire reason we stopped allowing "it looked like less on TV" discussion is because it invariably turns into a pissing match between posters claiming that their perception is correct, while the other person's perception is wrong. Having a verifiable source mitigates that issue.
I just don't agree. There are times that is it blatantly obvious. You can continue to argue but I don't agree. Especially in the 20k stadiums we have now. This was much harder when playing in 70k stadiums. That is important part of this. There are only 3 teams not playing in 18-25k ish stadiums: Seattle, NER and Atlanta. Vancouver completely blocks off top leaving only around 25kish seats exposed. Not sure the total capacity of Yankees stadium. That is is definitely hard to judge butts in the seats no question about it. So things have changed over the years in this thread. - no longer the stats based thread it was - teams now playing in 20k ish stadiums as opposed to 70k nfl stadiums. - many less teams with large discrepancies between announced and actual.
Announced attendances from the league and its affiliated teams are not credible sources, nor can they be verified by anyone on this board. I watch the games on TV and there are lots of empty seats virtually everywhere across the league this season. Good teams and bad, good weather and bad. Either hipsters have moved on to the next thing or there's something else going on. And you're not going to convince me otherwise with some official "verifying" Don Garber is proverbially fully clothed.
Unless you're devoted to watching as much of the stands for the entire duration of the game and noting any apparent changes in how full they are, you're not going to eyeball something reliably - that is, the first time you look will give you an impression that you stick with, whatever the true reality is. Also, playing on what Yoshou mentioned - I have personally been at several rainy Audi Field games where there were more people beneath the stands than in the seats themselves. What the cameras see can never tell the whole story. Now, are there teams fudging some numbers? Maybe. But I'm not going to discard what the league says just because of what people are saying on this board - whatever method is used to produce the numbers, it's more reliable than what randos on a forum claim.
This^^ if some want to believe in that charade of the grand conspiracy Don Garber nonsense you'd probably feel at home on r/MLS where its often infiltrated by "supposed" fans of the league who spend more time trying to convince others to join them in taking a crap on the league because its the devil. Attendance is important but its not the end all be all, MLS attendance has come a long way from the days we were celebrating breaking 17k as a less than a decade ago. https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/mls-attendance-analysis-week-30.1567949/#post-22028513
Statements by the league are news and people here can perform analysis o that news. Statements from posters on their beliefs about MLS are not news. What you want to do would fall into the General Forum and I say go for it. Have fun. Debate and critique and speculate and synonym synonym synonym. But it is not news. And not analysis.
I miss the days when I could come to this thread and see what attendance was and what the league and team averages are. Now, I just go to Wikipedia so I can avoid having to go through pages of the same stupid arguments week after week.
I agree this. I miss the old days of the this thread. While almost all the stats and analysis was over my head it was a great thread full of amazing info. P.S. I am perfectly happy starting a new thread in General where discussion of butts in seats is accepted. Edit: I started one for anyone that is interested. If no-one else comes by then there is no point in continuing it. https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/mls-2019-attendance-butts-in-seats-talk-welcome.2103767/
It's what happens when mods get lax. These threads used to be sternly guided back on track when we would get these types of issues. Lol I remember the term "Save it for the You be the Don thread"
Not this but there was lots of threads were people would drop little nuggets and stories about the league in its really early days. I became a fan around 2005-2006. As the league has grown we lost that connection everything is complain complain it seems everybody is looking for something to complain about or to point to to say somethings wrong with MLS. I imagine alot of the oldtimers on thread couldn't imagine where the league is grown to. Would be nice if some of the old guys like Triplet, SuperDave etc. would swing back thru.
We wouldn’t say no to anyone that wanted to start that level of tracking. Unfortunately, after Ed left no one was willing.
You are indeed correct, it did get very, very tedious. That said, those were the days when the league regularly drew flies - Giants Stadium regularly had spectators numbering in the hundreds and then NYRB would announce a gate of 12,000! It was absurd and you wondered why MLS even bothered to release attendance figures at all. These days I think there is more reason to discuss it and do wonder if it really would have a negative impact on this thread if it was allowed.
A commenter in The Guardian explains why you don't go to Audi Field when it's raining: The Audi was built in haste, and opened before fully finished, and a stadium reported was left concussed when an unsecured railing failed and hurt her. We are left with a building where there are an insufficient number of bathrooms, or entrances, or food/drink concessions, and not enough room to move. When it rains, the seats are flooded through the apertures where we've been promised cover, only to be told that the plans for fancy solar panels haven't been funded yet, maybe next year.
I love those old stories as well, but the perpetual idea that MLS is a fly-by-night operation that could fold tomorrow is a real analytical weakness.
A bit of a tangent, but: while I agree there isn't enough space or cover (my second game there was a rainy one, and it got pretty damn wet even on the concourse level; it's gotten better since), I think the number of bathrooms and entrances is fine - and oh my god is there a lot of concessions! [/tangent]
Whatever about league-wide attendance woes, maybe some of the Crew's problems this season - actual or perceived - could be attributable to some poor scheduling by MLS. Out of 17 scheduled home games, 11 will be played on or before July 1st and six of those were played in March and April. Could that be a bit of a triple whammy for the franchise? The cold and damp discouraged some ST holders and casual/walk-up fans from coming, while leaving others a bit over-exposed, and then leaving no opportunity develop continuity in the late summer and autumn.
But isn't that scheduling the solution to getting MLS to play Fall-Spring and solve all our player acquisition problems?
Yes, our final 2019 numbers have already taken quite a hit from the most front-loaded schedule in team history. Traditionally we draw better in late summer and fall but we won't be able to do it as much as in past seasons. Presumably PSV approved the schedule for the team on their way out the door since the new ownership didn't take over until Jan 1.
Well hopefully your new stadium won't be finished until June 20xx and you can look forward to a long hot summer of soccer.
Originally the new stadium was supposed to be ready for the start of the 2021 season but it looks like it will open sometime after the beginning of the season. That will push back the redevelopment of Mapfre into a community soccer park. The Crew should see much better attendance in 2020 than in 2019 for multiple reasons.
This league has 24 teams playing right now, alot of whom are a priority over Columbus honestly (because columbus is in a transition phase with no one in the front office to blame for poor performance).Most of those teams probably draw better ad revenue than Cbus. Columbus, Minnesota, SKC, Colorado, NYCFC, NYRB, RSL, Chicago, Portland, Seattle, Cincy, Toronto, Montreal, NE, Philly, Vancouver, D.C. all of these teams could have a have bad winter. Thats 17 teams. more than half of the league, so dont go immediately blaming Precourt for something we know little-to-nothing about. But I will say this... I agree. The new ownership will fight for Columbus relevance. They'll push for better seasonal home game positioning against the other teams. Market the surrounding areas so that FCCincy doesn't creep in. The new stadium in downtown will help, whenever that is built. This has become apparent in the last couple months. Precourt had no interest in Columbus. Everything hes done in Austin so far has been great. he obviously had to fight lawsuits and lobbyists to get to where he is in Austin, Which no sports owner before him actually made a deal with the city of Austin, despite numerous attempts. Theyve really gone all in on ATX. I believe your new owners in Columbus will do the same, eventually.
You forgot L.A. https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-california-snow-20190221-story.html And when Sounders78 gets his team in Honolulu, they could have a bad winter, too. https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/02/11/snow-blankets-hawaii-summits-amid-powerful-winter-storm/