Andrew Carleton

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by ielag, Jul 8, 2018.

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  1. bpet15

    bpet15 Member+

    Oct 4, 2016
    Absolutely shocking, that thread. What the absolute feck?
     
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  2. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Uh this is BigSoccer...
    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm with Clint here. These kids need a coach and a club that believes in them. If they don't then do the kid a favor and let him find a place where they do. It's hard enough to make it without the club ripping you. Do I think he's made mistakes? It sounds like it but so has Atlanta. They need a divorce.
     
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  4. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006
    lol yeah the club doesn't believe in him they've invested a chunk of money on him and tried to give him repeated chances....a real club would've cleared the roster out for him and just given him a set of rules he could follow instead of a set of rules that is based on what the club wants. kid doesn't want a curfew before matches he shouldn't have one, does not want to be on time he shouldn't have to be stars don't have the same rules an average player does and this should apply to AC.
     
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  5. Dirt McGirt

    Dirt McGirt Member+

    Jun 20, 2005
    Phoenix, AZ
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah I don't get how Atlanta is at fault in this situation.
     
  6. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Emre Mor got booted from BVB fairly quickly and he was a higher quality 18/19 yr old.
     
  7. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    That isnt the MLS way. They treat players like objects instead of investments. They don't see any reason to get rid of a squad player that's low salary doesnt count against the cap. It has always been like that and is only slowly starting to change.
     
  8. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Respectfully, bsky22, if another team anywhere in the world valued the player’s overall potential at more than the holding team, they’d make an offer and the holding firm should sell. The fact that no offers have been forthcoming (as far as we know) says that the players value isn’t great.
     
  9. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    I have been fading uss97531's top picks for years (I was a little worried when he jumped on the CP bandwagon, but figured it was so late that it didnt matter) He has tons of busts that could make up a pretty poor 7 a side team. I don't think any of them have come close to the expectations that he overwhelmed folks with on here. Hamid, Agudelo, Trapp, Flores, EPB, Wright, Carleton... If you look at that group Trapp is the outlier. The rest are strong physically and/or flashy players. He over rates creative player and doesnt seem to even consider the mental side of the game... which they all seem to have been questioned in that area.
     
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  10. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    You don't think there are MLS teams that would be interested in him? He isnt worth much, but if they viewed him as an investment, theybshould be looking to move him. They could give him away with a sell on clause.

    I believe most of this is on Carleton, it doesnt look like ATL knows what to do with him. If there are issues with him as many are suggesting, they should have known about them before they signed. He was, of course, a homegrown player.
     
  11. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    We can agree to disagree but even if they view him as an investment, you need to have another team willing to pay something for him. It’s possible that Atlanta overvalued him and has turned down offers. I’m guessing that there haven’t been many offers at all but that’s an opinion.
     
  12. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not in the 18 again. Pereira and Meram are. Barco of course is off to the U20s.

    So he now isn't even making the game day roster without Barco.

    When situations like this occur historically with other players at other clubs, they very rarely end up becoming regulars at that club.
     
  13. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006
    of course they keep young guys who aren't going to be stars they have to have squad players for those youth teams. You think every youth player at manchester city is projected to be messi?
     
  14. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Key difference here is, BVB let him go.

    Carleton is languishing in an organization that cannot get him under control, and that has a team with a high-priced XI blocking him from playing regardless of his professionalism/lack thereof.
     
  15. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    I'd much rather have a player like Carleton (in form) on the wing for the national team than Arriola, Baird, or another average MLS player.

    There is no issue with his ability. The issue is his maturity. When I project where a player is going to be in 12-18 months, I don't factor his maturity into the equation because that's not something that I have any clue about.

    The fact that some on here act so righteous about AC's issues is pitiful. They are claiming that his current issues prove that he's not as good as the people (usssocer and me) who think he's a top level talent believe he is. That's not the case at all, however.

    @bpet15 Didn't you list some Malone guy as someone who's a bigger prospect than Andrew Carleton? c'mon man
     
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  16. bpet15

    bpet15 Member+

    Oct 4, 2016
    Don’t think I listed him as a bigger prospect, but was impressed with him the couple times I watched him. Not sure an attacker and CB is the best comparison.

    I’ve never stated that I don’t think Carleton has an issue ability wise anywhere in this thread. I think he’s over rated by some, but he obviously has some ability.

    The fact that you project him is not the shocking part, it’s the fact that someone physically typed his name in a starting XI for our full team in the next 12 months - despite not even making the YNT for his age group.
     
  17. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    See, this is ridiculous. Carleton has dominated at the youth national team level. He's not in his current age group team because a. he wasn't released for qualifying by his pro team, and b. he hasn't been playing for his pro team because he is having off field problems.

    Based on quality alone, there's no question he's with the current U20s and one of the top players.

    Given an in form 19 year old Andrew Carleton, who are the players -- outside of Pulisic -- you'd want ahead of him on the wing? I like technical players who can create chances in possession, which is why I'd much prefer him to the likes of Arriola, Baird, etc.
     
  18. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You’ll have a tough time finding people who dispute he’s a top talent for his age group.

    Of course, sports is littered with top youth talents who fail translate it to the highest levels.
     
  19. bpet15

    bpet15 Member+

    Oct 4, 2016
    Yeah, here’s the thing. Quality is a percentage of an overall package that a good professional needs. Having quality doesn’t get you shit, unless you can combine it with a bunch of other “qualities.”

    This world is littered with players that had quality, but no one knows their name.

    You and I have done this dance before - no desire to do it again. Time will tell as to which one of us is right.

    My comment above had nothing to do about him as a player - it was about putting him in the full team XI.
     
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  20. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    And, yeah, when you were down on Carleton earlier in this thread, I asked you to name five prospects who you had ahead of him. One of them was Malone.... The others weren't as egregious, but discounting Andrew Carleton as a huge talent (even if he doesn't live up to it because of other issues) is ridiculous.
     
  21. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    It's also a fact that there are very few great veterans who were not also dominant as youths.
    I'm not in his head, so I don't know what motivates him. I'm not in his inner circle that knows his off field habits. I'm not his coach or in the squad, so I don't know his training habits.

    Of course, being a pro is about more than talent, but those other things are mostly unknown to someone like me. Based on the things that I, and most everyone here, have to go on there is no question that Carleton is supremely talents. However, the number of people who dispute that is fairly high, and the attitude toward him at this point in his career as a young player with loads of talent who is having issues with maturity is pitiful.

    The kid is uber talented, and for you to call me out basically as a lunatic or fanboy for projecting him as a first team player over the likes of Paul Arriola in a few months is uncalled for.
     
  22. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    [​IMG]

    You're tearing me apart!
     
  23. bpet15

    bpet15 Member+

    Oct 4, 2016
    Don, I honestly think you’re taking this a bit too personal.

    Please, take a step back and understand there are very few in this thread that have ever argued that Carleton is not talented. There is a clear difference in the level of talent you seen in him and the talent that others see in him - that said, there is talent.

    My intent was not to call you out - but calling out the fact you had him in the full team first XI. It makes no difference to me who you have him in the team over to make that ludicrous for me. The fact of the matter remains that he still can’t get into his club team. A few of us having a laugh about you putting him in the NT XI, can’t be too surprising to you.

    Just so you have an idea as to what these clubs look for when looking at players. I’ve recently had conversations with 4 German clubs (3 Bund and 1 Bund2) about a player that is what you describe as “uber” talented. To a man, each club is more concerned how his personality would fit in a changing room of professionals than they are his talent. Thus, none of these teams will be going in for him.

    For the last time, I want Carleton to make it - I really do. However, there is nothing I see (because or doesn’t play) or hear that makes me think he will. I would never give up on a teenager - but something needs to go right for him quickly.

    There are only a few possibilities at the moment:
    1). His previous manager and current manager just don’t rate him
    2). His previous manager and current manager do rate him, but other reasons keep him out of the team

    The fact that he hasn’t played under multiple managers and the club continuously signs other players in his position has to make you pause and ask “Is he really as good as I think he is?” Let’s hope the answer turns out to be yes, but now, it’s quite obviously no.
     
  24. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    It sounds like you are implicitly assuming there is a 100% probability that Carleton will mature. I think that is a very aggressive assumption and that you are just taking a flyer on him. If you dont want to factor it into the equation, then I'd set an assumption based on history... what percentage of 18 yos that have issues with maturity "grow up" over the next 12-18 months.

    Predicting how a player is going to progress mentally is very tough and especially for fans who dont have much data. That being said, there are many clues available. There were many signs that CP, WM, and TA all had good heads on their shoulders. The same could be said for Steffen, Miazga, Sargent, and Weah. There were also many like Agudelo, Flores, Wright, etc that didnt. Neither is anywhere close to foolproof, but I dont see any reason to ignore them.
     
  25. bpet15

    bpet15 Member+

    Oct 4, 2016
    For managers, front office personnel and scouts - these two things are one in the same.
     

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