All time top scorers in big five Euro leagues

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by AD78, Aug 26, 2016.

  1. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Yeah it’s slightly odd however it will be interesting see if mbappe continues upon his upward trajectory
    He is currently on course to matching many great goalscorers in the coming years
    I believe he isn’t even a set piece taker for his teams so just imagine he starts taking penalties and freekicks
     
  2. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #52 carlito86, Apr 3, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2019

    Lionel messi finally equals /overtakes cristiano ronaldo for most goals scored in the history of european top 5 leagues(there seems to be some dispute over the validity of a goal scored by CR in 2011 that was accredited to pepe due to a deflection)

    I suspect this lead will only increase and they will finish their careers in the same position as they currently are

    Messi should be as of now considered a top 5 undisputed historic goalscorer alongside gerd muller,ferenc puskas,pele and cristiano ronaldo
    All things considered(including titles,assists,chances created etc) he is for me the most dominant league performer ever
     
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  3. victorcalello38

    Feb 28, 2017
    Club:
    Montevideo Wanderers FC
    Recall that Messi is two years younger
     
  4. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    60 less games and 25 less PKs.
     
  5. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    We will have to see his ratio in 2.5 years if its the same
    In any case it is known and hardly disputed messi was a phenomenon level player at a younger age than ronaldo

    It took CR 36 games to score his first CL goal
    He was 22 years old then(2007)
    I think he struck his 50th PL goal at 22 years old
    Messi had approx 100 by that age

    If you compare their respective goal records since 2007 the gap is much narrower
     
  6. AD78

    AD78 Member+

    Jul 17, 2013
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    End of season round up and latest figures....

    Messi overtook Ronaldo but both very close at the top, who knows where they will stop but their lead is increasing all the time but I expect Messi to pull away now.

    Cavani had an injury hit season and moved to 246 and up a few places, interesting to see where he ends up next year to see how much higher he could go up.

    Aguero had a decent season that promised more at one point but still moved up to 238, I feel he has another maybe two strong PL seasons left so again a decent jump possibly.

    Higuain change of league half way through where he struggled in PL but moved to 228, another where the next move will play a big part in where he ends.

    Lewandowski passed 200 Bundesliga goals and is currently on 202, has the potential of 2-3 good scoring years left at least so I would expect a further decent rise, that could depend on whether he stays at Bayern or decides to move.

    Suarez had a fairly decent season numbers wise and is up to 199, again interesting to see if he will remain at Barcelona next year.

    Benzema had his best scoring season for years and is up to 190 total and well inside the top 100.

    Other names are Dzeko on 178, Gomez on 177, Aubameyang is up to 171 after a good season, and Arduriz passed the 150 mark and is now on 157, as did Quagliarella who was Serie top scorer is now on 153.
     

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  7. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    Good work and thank you for keeping this up to date.
     
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  8. AD78

    AD78 Member+

    Jul 17, 2013
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    No tables as no major changes to the end of last season so no tables published but a few interesting points:

    - Messi and Ronaldo are now ridiculously on the same figure tied at the top
    - Aguero is just 4 of the 250 mark following a strong start to the season, he could end up just outside top ten by season end if he continues at this rate
    - Lewandowski is flying and will likely end up in top 30 at least by season end

    - Other very interesting point is a number of other players a bit further down are all progressing, namely Suarez, Benzema, Dzeko, Aubameyang and could all break in to the top 60/70 by season end. Add the other names already up there (Messi, Ronaldo, Ibrahimovic, Cavani, Higuain, Lewandowski) means there could interestingly be ten active players in the upper echelons of the list.
     
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  9. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Next milestone that could be unattainable:

    Uefa says Joseph bican leads for most goals in a European league with 517 in the czechslovakian league (ferenc puskas follows closely behind on 500 league goals)
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49851148

    If anyone is to break those records it will be them(messi and CR)
    If it isn't then no one probably will

    They'd had to average 20 league goals for the next 4-5 seasons with seems highly improbable for cris aged 34-35 already (unless he moves to the Portuguese primera division)
     
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  10. AD78

    AD78 Member+

    Jul 17, 2013
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Although I could see Messi going for a fair while yet and having a couple of 30 plus goal seasons which leaves perhaps only needed a couple of 15-20 seasons to beat that.

    To be honest too Bican scored many goals in the Bohemia-Moravia league in wartime which was not even the Czechoslovak league. I think Puskas 500 in Hungary and Spain is more impressive.
     
  11. tony-soprano37

    Dec 5, 2008
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    My old man (he is 82 now) was a huge fan of Tonny van der linden. He always stated that after Cruyff, wilkes and van Hanegem. van der linden was the best player we ever had. He could talk for hrs about him
     
  12. AD78

    AD78 Member+

    Jul 17, 2013
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    #62 AD78, Aug 3, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2020
    Figures at the end of the protacted / sometimes halted 19/20 season.

    Key points:

    Interesting 7 of the top 30 are currently active, definitley an era of good goal scorers, albeit added by more open games, less draconian and brutal defending, VAR etc... (

    Ronaldo and Messi interchanged at the top but a great second half to the season put Ronaldo on top as they extend their lead.

    Ibrahimovic is back in Serie A after missing a season and a half of European season and has been in great form, and entered the top 10, had he not had the US hiatus he would be a few places higher but with the rumours of a Milan extension he may move further up if he plays on next season or more.

    Aguero moved up ten or so places and is in #18, a big shame he got injured as City had a very good run in terms of opposition and feel he would have been the PL top scorer again. The big question is how long he stays and game time to see where he ends up, another season should see him get up a chunk but would need two seasons to break into the top 10 that I feel he would have done next season had he not got injured.

    Cavani stalled at PSG with very little game time, likely he will move outside the Big 5 leagues so we will see.

    Higuain edged up a few places but again not a huge amount of game time, another interesting one to see where he ends up next season as still has a goals in him

    Lewandowski has rocketed up the list this season, moving up 34 goals and over 30 places, he is in arguably the best form of his career in a hugely dominant team so I really could see him in the top 10 within two seasons and the question is how far can he go, I could see him breaking the 300 barrier.

    Further down the list a healthy jump after a great season for Benzema, Suarez moved up also despite the injury but the break enabled him to complete the season, question re Suarez will be where he will play next season with a lot of rumours Barca signings but perhaps that will be as a replacement for Griezmann.

    Aubemeyang had another great season and jumped over 40 places and another solid seaon for Dzeko also.

    Likely to see Kane and Immobile move into this list next season
     

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  13. Gregoriak

    Gregoriak BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 27, 2002
    Munich
    Which in my opinion mostly explains the rise in goalscoring overall and particularly for top scorer titles in the recent 10 years.

    A comparison of Italy, England, Spain and Germany over the past decades shows an incredible rise in goalscoring records (2010s includes 2019-20)

    Serie A is almost back to 1950s standards.
    England is the highest since the 1960s.
    Spain last decade is the highest ever.
    Germany is the highest since the 1970s.

    Italy - avg. # of goals scored by top scorer (absolute) / GPG
    1950s 29 / 0.81
    1960s 21 / 0.63
    1970s 21 / 0.70
    1980s 18 / 0.57
    1990s 23 / 0.69
    2000s 25 / 0.69
    2010s 29 / 0.75

    England - avg. # of goals scored by top scorer (absolute) / GPG
    1950s 31 / 0.73
    1960s 33 / 0.79
    1970s 26 / 0.61
    1980s 26 / 0.64
    1990s 26 / 0.65
    2000s 25 / 0.67
    2010s 27 / 0.70

    Spain - avg. # of goals scored by top scorer (absolute) / GPG
    1950s 27 / 0.90
    1960s 23 / 0.76
    1970s 21 / 0.64
    1980s 25 / 0.70
    1990s 29 / 0.73
    2000s 26 / 0.69
    2010s 38 / 1.01

    Germany - avg. # of goals scored by top scorer (absolute) / GPG
    1960s 28 / 0.83
    1970s 30 / 0.89
    1980s 24 / 0.70
    1990s 20 / 0.59
    2000s 23 / 0.67
    2010s 26 / 0.77
     
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  14. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    Worth a few observations here.

    The Spanish numbers are distorted by the fact that two of the best players in history played there for the duration of the time and another exceptional figure Luis Suarez.

    Take out the figures for Messi/Ronaldo and go to the next highest and it changes the average to 26. If you look as well the overall GPG in La Liga is typically the lowest of the leagues as well.

    Equally the PL has typically been very steady. Overall GPG has been around 2.7 or so consistently over the last 50 years. Prior to 1968 it was always above 3.

    Overall GPG in the Budesliga has gone through the roof an Italy has seen a number of very high scoring seasons. What I find particularly notable is the number of goals scored by relatively average players. I think it's one thing to see a Suarez or Lewandowski score a hatful as they are clearly all-time greats and will in due course be viewed as such. Someone like Immobile is a very good goalscorer but is not at that level and yet is off the scale on numbers. The fact that Quagliarella and Luca Toni could win the topscorer awards in their mid thirties and Ibra has been in such good form this year says quite a bit about defending in Serie A.
     
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  15. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Good observation.

    I guess, replacing Messi/CR7 numbers with "normal" scoring rates, the average will be closer to the 1950s. I mean, it would be inappropiate cleared them entirely.
     
  16. Gregoriak

    Gregoriak BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 27, 2002
    Munich
    If you take out Messi/C.Ronaldo you may also take out G.Müller from 1970s Germany stats (then avg. # of goals scored by the top scorer would drop from 30 to 26 - same as the current "harder to score in" decade).

    LM/CR are outstanding players on a historical scale - no one doubts that - but still they benefit from stacked super teams advantage, VAR, referee protection, less brutal defending, better pitches. In my opinion if these two had played in Spain in the 1970s and 80s their goal scoring exploits would be significantly less, maybe even half of what they score in this era.
     
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  17. Edhardy

    Edhardy Member+

    Sep 4, 2013
    Nairobi, Kenya
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    I get the general point, but I'd disagree about benefiting from VAR. They've only had it for 2 seasons now and for every penalty call they get its balanced out by a disallowed goal for a marginal offside that would have been ignored in past times.
     
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  18. Gregoriak

    Gregoriak BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 27, 2002
    Munich
    True
     
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  19. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I think one underrated factor contributing to the rise in number of goals is where we are in the tactical evolution of the game, and the general tactical environment.

    I can't speak of the much older era, but there is no doubt in my mind that we are in an unprecedented era, tactically speaking.

    Pretty much every single top team (say, top 10, translating to about top 2 in most of the top 5 leagues) play highly aggressive football. The next set of teams are also building towards that type of football, with the likes of At. Madrid being an exception, in a sea of Man Utd, Chelsea, Villareal, RB Leipzig, Borussia Monchengladbach, Leverkusen, Atalanta, Lazio, Roma, etc.

    I don't know what the bottom of other leagues are like, but at least in the EPL, you have teams like Villa and Norwich that play expansive football despite being relegation battlers.

    And it's not just about the style and preferences, but also the proficiencies. The top teams, partly because they've been able to collect great players, but I reckon also because of the tactical development of managers, are now so much better at attacking, tactically, than ever before.

    Gone are the days when you can just collect the top attacking talents and let them run wild in a sort of organized chaos manner.

    Attacks are highly organized and detailed now. The top teams are much better at controlling the game (see the ridiculous possession gap for evidence) and also in creating scoring chances for their attackers (see the amount of shots per game the best players have nowadays).

    At some point, the defensive tactics might catchup, and we might get another team that wins it all by keeping it tight at the back. For now though, it is an era of attack.
     
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  20. AD78

    AD78 Member+

    Jul 17, 2013
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Whilst I do not disagree, it would be good to see the stats in a few years, for say 3/4/5 years pre VAR vs same period post VAR, I agree that at certain times goal that may not have been disallowed are, but that is the same the other way (agree to a lesser extent) but there are definitely more penalties, Man United had a hatful this year and Immobile scored a lot of penalties also this season.
     
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  21. AD78

    AD78 Member+

    Jul 17, 2013
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Interestingly current positions of 18,19,20 are all current players in Aguero, Cavani and Lewandowski on 254, 253 and 253 respectively.
     
  22. AD78

    AD78 Member+

    Jul 17, 2013
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    End of Season update:

    At the top Ronaldo and Messi continue to stretch their lead topping the scoring charts in Italy and Spain respectively.

    The big early season story was Ibrahimovic's form and he has risen to 8th on 293 and could raise a few places more post his contract extension.

    Another huge story was the record breaking season of Lewandowski with 41 Bundlesliga goals as he moved up to 277 just outside the top ten where he will be firmly in next season.

    Cavani improved significantly for United over the season as he gained first his fitness that lead to more game time to edge up to 260 and just behind him is Aguero who despite the fairy tale final day ending had limited game time over the season limped up to 258.

    It will be interesting to see next season if Cavani is United's main striker and if Aguero does end up at Barcelona and how much game time he gets.

    Suarez and Benzema (now on 237 & 235) had strong seasons and moved into the top 30 and that means that 8 of the current top 30 players are active at present.

    Further down a poor season from Aubemeyang and a limited game time from Dzeko put them on 203 and 201 respectively and Quagliarella much further down on 168.

    Kane broke into list and is on 166 and rising fast, it will be interesting to see where he ends up next season but there will be a steady goal flow wherever.

    Immobile hits 160, which is the same as Lukaku who has now entered the list, along side Griezmann on 156 with Aduritz sandwiched between them.

    2021 END A.png 2021 END B.png 2021 END C.png 2021 END D.png
     
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  23. El genio de Moaña

    El genio de Moaña New Member

    Real Madrid
    Spain
    Jul 4, 2021
    For the next season pay attention on this guys:

    Kevin Gameiro: 150 goals - FREE AGENT
    Alexander Lacazette: 150 - ARSENAL
    Mauro Icardi: 140 - PSG
    Wissam Ben Yedder: 139 - MONACO
    Álvaro Negredo: 138 - CÁDIZ
    Marco Reus: 135 - BVB
    Mohamed Salah: 132 - LIVERPOOL
    Neymar: 126 - PSG
     
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  24. peterhrt

    peterhrt Member+

    Oct 21, 2015
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    100 goals for each of two clubs in the same league (top division):


    England

    Jack - 144 Bolton, 113 Arsenal
    Greaves - 220 Tottenham, 124 Chelsea
    Shearer - 148 Newcastle, 112 Blackburn

    France

    Lacombe - 123 Lyon, 118 Bordeaux

    Brazil

    Friedenreich - 288 Paulistano, 102 Sao Paulo

    Scotland

    Jimmy McColl - 128 Hibernian, 117 Celtic

    Hungary

    Schlosser - 258 Ferencvaros, 141 MTK
    Deak - 121 Ferencvaros, 108 Ujpest Dozsa. (Also 100+ including unofficial matches for Szentiorinci)

    Bulgaria

    Jekov - 144 CSKA Sofia, 101 Beroe

    Bolivia

    Antelo - 144 Oriente Petrolero, 127 Blooming


    Near misses:

    Herd (England) - 114 Manchester United, 97 Arsenal
    Koglberger (Austria) - 139 LASK, 96 Austria Wien
    Piantoni (France) - 105 Reims, 92 Nancy


    Nearest in some other countries:

    Germany Pizarro - 110 Werder Bremen, 87 Bayern Munich

    Italy Altafini - 119 AC Milan, 71 Napoli

    Spain Gorostiza - 106 Athletic Bilbao, 72 Valencia

    Belgium Vandenbergh - 117 Lierse, 87 Anderlecht

    Czechoslovakia Bican - 427 Slavia Prague, 74 Vitkovice

    Argentina Benitez Caceres 108 Boca Juniors, 65 Racing Club
     
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  25. peterhrt

    peterhrt Member+

    Oct 21, 2015
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    Also -

    Helmchen (Germany) - 447 PSV Chemnitz, 99 Brandenburg Cottbus
    Lenstra (Netherlands) - 517 Heerenveen, 86 SC Enschede
     
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