Except, but FIFA standards Canada (and every other country) is the same as Wales, Puerto Rico, and Scotland.
Yes, but this is assumes FIFA standards are the only criteria when comparing the two situations, and I find that ridiculous. Wales has two conurbations that credibly could be called cities; its citizens travel under the same passport as England; and Westminster passes their laws. The current Welsh Premier League is reflective of the ceiling outside of Swansea and Cardiff. Yes, FIFA says they're the same scenario, but culturally and historically they are nothing alike.
That's an excellent question. Mark Anthony Kaye is a starter at LAFC but TFC didnt see anything in him at TFC III and TFC II. What @torontofc didn’t see in him is beyond me. https://t.co/bDyr0tbuGP— Miguel (@prizby) March 11, 2019
Not the question. Why are scouts more likely to scout a talented Canadian player in CPL and USL? Why would a scout look at at players like at players like Maxime Crepeau or Mark-Anthony Kaye in CPL but not in USL? Its not like the USL is promoting young Canadian talent as 5 of the 20 under 20 in 2016 were Canadians. Is it USL fault that guys like Bustos and Johnson tried didn't set the world a fire when they left the USL? Not as bad as Vancouver did with his fellow midfielder Lee Nguyen. Less than 3 years after Vancouver cut him he finished 3rd in the league MVP voting.
Nguyen wasn’t entirely cut for performance reasons.. It may have been the primary factor, but if it weren’t for him tweeting the homophobic slur, he probably would have at least stayed on as a bench warmer.
But did they scout Crepeau when he was tearing it down (keeping it out) in USL? Not at all. Montreal sending Crepeau to USL was essentially Garde saying he wasn't good enough to even be the back up, so be barely got any minutes in MLS. You tell me, does Euro scouts screen the USL for American talents deemed not good enough for MLS, a league that most of them don't hold that high in level? I'm just asking here. When Kaye was in Louisville or TFC II, was he scouted by European scouts? No but he might in MLS. As for CPL, they have nearly a 100 Canadians on contract and that's at least 42 Canadians guaranteed to start every weeks, with most of them being young with untapped potential being given lots of minutes and lots of opportunities to demonstrate their game. That also mean being given the space (not held on a short leash) to be creative on the pitch. That's a much larger sample to have a clear evaluation on their performance. As the last 3 National Coach (1 former Real Madrid coach Spaniard and the other Columbian), they said it...talent wasn't the problem, the lack of minutes in a pro environment was the issue and MLS/USL wasn't sufficient. Look, I'm not debating whether or not scouts looks into USL or not. I'm saying that in regards to Canadian talents in North America, the obvious place to look are Liga MX, MLS and CPL
CPL is going to have the exact same issue that USL has.. There is a higher quality league in the same country that scouts are going to be focusing on. Not only that, but, as you said yourself, Canadians have a bad reputation in Europe. Until a few Canadians do well in Europe, what incentive does a team with limited resources have in scouting CPL, when they can just hit the MLS clubs and scout the clubs that should be absorbing the best talent in Canada and US?
Like what? The idea that USL have their hand on the best Canadian prospects it truly laughable MLS isn't a Canadian league. They aren't even scouting most of the nation, let alone claim to have the best young talent on hand. How many talents did they wasted, wrongly evaluated or flat out missed? Scouts are looking for young talent, not established MLS guys. The young talented guys they do have on hand, they barely let them play and see minutes hence the "tragedy" of Lyon loaning Zachary Brault-Guillard will unfold this season. He's not getting 36 years old Bacary Sagna minutes, which is Fn ridiculous. A major reason why Ballou Tabla wanted out and force the club's hand to let him go...many examples such as this like Chung wanting out of Vancouver, going to Germany and signing with Pacific. How long will they be able to hold on to the talent they have in USL due to signing others using TAM, Green Cards or some other ways? Whitecaps lost great pieces to Pacific, same for Montreal losing Choiniere to Forge due to be utterly uninterested by USL. At least TFC was smart enough to lock them all down with contracts to loan them back into their reserve teams. What happens when those deals expires or they get fed up of USL? CPL will let them play (potentially in CONCACAF League), develop, mature along with young talents that MLS teams haven't scouted nor found with great potential. Where do they stand to increase their value? USL or CPL? That stream of talent (non MLS academies mostly ignored by MLS) has been scouted for years by European teams. Why would that stop now that they are partnering with CPL and funneling them into the league? MLS are far from absorbing the best talent in Canada. They know it, that's why they've been scouting outside the MLS academies the entire time. If you think that scouts thinks "Nah, won't bother looking at CPL because MLS have all the best Canadians" is really not downplaying their knowledge of the North American scene and you're being biaised to USSF leagues. I understand that but it still doesn't make you right.
The first two sentences are connected. CPL and USL have the same problem, in that there is a higher quality league in their country that the scouts will be viewing. *checks map* Well, f**k me.. I didn't realize that Montreal, Vancouver, and Toronto weren't in Canada.. My bad. Expectations and reality don't always match. Not even remotely true. If they are looking for young talent, they are looking at U18 talent that they can bring into their academy system and develop themselves. For most of Europe, once a player hits 18, they are looking for players with professional experience in a challenging league (like MLS). CPL will certainly provide an outlet here, but at that point, most leagues/teams are going to be looking at MLS teams simply because the expectation is that it is higher quality than CPL. They aren't scouting the non-MLS academies.. They are scouting the Canadian youth national teams, relying upon the non-MLS academy teams doing European tours, and/or getting sent a name and a video from someone connected with the player sending a name to someone they know in Europe. For the most part, there isn't European scouts hitting random Canadian academy games looking for players. Not many teams can afford the level of scouting required to hit random academy games. You're just giving too much credit to lower level European scouting. A lot of the foreign hires of non-U18 players in lower level Europe is done via video highlight reels and personal connections.
But are the young talents even playing it it? That's the main point you refuse to recognize. Zachary Brault-guillard, despite being a stud for the Canadian Men's National team won't see minutes except in Canadian Championship maybe because Sagna (36 years old) is not likely to be benched. Had to make sure... there was 65% Americans who couldn't find Englan on a map so.... MLS has 3 Canadian clubs, but CPL is Canada's league. Those 3 are "officially" glorified guests on borrowed time. You truly are overestimating their eye for talents and development of players. In over 10 years, 2 hands would be enough to count how many had a true impact on the national team, one hand...really. On the other hand...Larin, David, Davies, Osorio, Hutchinson (I know pre MLS but Brampton is a soccer hotbed), Millar (from Mississauga straight to Fulham...TFC thought he was too small) etc... Pointing out the flaw in your logic. MLS aren't playing them, not enough of them, So what are they supposed to be looking at??? Due to the green card fire sale, young Americans will suffer too, let alone Canadians (Raheem Edwards hand is up) Wrong but believe what you want A very incomplete picture of the reality on the ground but perception isn't reality. I'm not saying they scout the entire nation, however, they know exactly where to look. That's why in Canadian soccer circles, the fact that foreigners are looking into the talent over our 3 MLS clubs have pissed off a lot of people over the last decade. You think I'm generalizing. I acknowledge what you're saying but what I'm saying is also happening in a much targeted fashion, hence repeating over and over, "they know where to look" while MLS academies has spent a decade ignoring them outright. CPL just facilitates the whole process. The logic that they won't bother watching CPL because of 5 Canadians in MLS makes no sense at all. That's a crazy thing to say
I think the logic is something like this: European teams that are low enough on the pecking order to be interested in signing CPL players don't have the resources to scout far away leagues like the CPL. Higher level European leagues aren't interested in guys who aren't at at least MLS level.
I find it amazing that you think something as meaningless as "Canada's league" will influence where scouts look... They aren't looking for "Canadians" to fill some sort of quota. They are looking for players, regardless of nationality. There is literally no scout that is in Canada that will pass up the MLS teams because MLS is an American league. On the other hand, there will be scouts that will pass up CPL because the perception (particularly at this early stage in its life) is that it is inferior to MLS. It's not a fire sale.. It is the difference in US and Canadian immigration laws. The US has no length of residency requirement in order for someone to start the green card process. As long as they are in the country legally, meet certain qualifications (of which most MLS players will meet), and on a Visa that allows it, they can start the green card process. Canada, on the other hand, has a 2 year residency requirement. There's little to nothing MLS can do to limit players getting green cards and once they do, they have to treat them as domestics. Hey now. There are 36 Canadians in MLS. 10 south of the border and 26 north of the border.
I laugh at the notion that MLS is the measuring stick to draw Euro sides. If what you're advancing is true (people on this board fancy MLS being the 2nd strongest league in CONCACAF), and that MLS is the bare minimum, Please explain Haitians being signed in Europe (some started in the Haitian league). What about those around CONCACAF that have leagues lower than MLS? Either MLS isn't #2 in CONCACAF or it isn't the bare minimum? Which one is it, but that such a flawed argument
Yes, they are looking at talent regardless of nationality. But it's equally true that they will pass an emerging star in CPL just because NYCFC are MLS level hence looking at that guy in Hamilton is a waste of time. Maybe this is the phone game and we're not understanding each other but that reasoning is just as crazy. They go where the talent is. If there's an star in CPL, MLS, hell even Cuba, they will investigate, period. That crap about MLS being the measuring stick and the rest doesn't matter if just too hilarious but keep them coming... its entertaining I don't criticize it, pointing it out that it might have a long term effect on young American playing time. Playing... not on roster
The short answer for Haitians is that they speak French and France's immigration policies are pretty favorable to former colonies.
I'm not sure what you mean? Are you talking about how they speak French in Quebec and you don't see a lot of Quebecois going into France? That'd probably a good question, but may also point to a hole in your "But Europe is already scouting Canada already" theory. But seriously, look where most Haitians are playing, it is in French leagues. https://ca.soccerway.com/players/players_abroad/haiti/ The reason for that is the common language and the favorable immigration policies. Seriously, you just don't understand how "scouting" works in lower division European soccer. They aren't sending people over to Canada (or the US) to look at lower division soccer. For players that aren't on the national team radar, it's generally agents working their connections in Europe looking for an opportunity for their players and getting trials set-up.
I wasn't aware of that agreement between the EU and Africa + Caribbean. Thanks for the info, it was great read. As for Quebec, it's the only province in Canada that control 100% of it's non refugees & family reunification immigration. Meaning that Quebec has the freedom to make it's own immigration deals (which they did) with France facilitating immigration back and forth. Just for info
Quebec isn't Canada. BC and Ontario are way more advanced than Quebec. I'm more familiar with the Ontario system but foreign scouts do come to Ontario to observe the talent in Ontario. I'm assuming that BC as well. (within the circle, they produce good talent). That's something that the L10 Commissioner would also confirm and has said many time with some of it's teams also operating academies such as Sigma. No ones talking about an army of scout leaving no stone unturned but they do come here knowing exactly where to look and have done so for years. Doesn't have to be one or the other (euro scouts only or video tapping/referral) BOTH are happening in Canada. The scouting isn't South American level, of course it isn't, that's ridiculous but your equally wrong to say that NO Europeans comes to Canada at all.
Yeah your "MLS level" just took a massive beating at the hands of Liga MX tonight. So they never look in Costa Rica, Panama? Whatever... keep holding on to that imaginary "MLS is the bare minimum" fantasy
Are you having a bad day? You seem pretty angry. Based on several years' worth of CCL results, MLS is the second best league in CONCACAF. It is a significant step below LMX but is ahead of the other leagues. I'm not sure why that's controversial for you. The point that Yoshou (and others) are trying to make is not that no CONCACAF players are going to go to Europe from leagues other than LMX or MLS. Especially for people who get national team exposure or have inside connections (or just move there and try their luck) there will be some success stories. In general, however, the higher level European teams that have the resources to scout in North America are going to be far more likely to look in LMX or MLS than the CPL. Bayern Munich is looking for the next Alphonso Davies, not a player who's already 21 and just moved up from L1O to the CPL. If you aren't that rare talent who can start in at least MLS by age 18 the Bayern Munichs of the world aren't really that interested. This doesn't mean that MLS is some awesome world league but it is way better than the CPL. It doesn't mean no one will ever get to a high European team another way (or a second division European squad or something like that). It's just a short hand for the level of players the world's top leagues are looking for. I hope the CPL will develop to the point where it, too, is a good spot for these types of players. Certainly from the Canadian perspective it's going to give a lot more playing time to our players.
Quite happy on the contrary It's not and I'm not debating that. But you keep pressing that MLS is the bare minimum in everything, that couldn't be more inaccurate. I don't disagree but it doesn't have to be an absolute. Scouting from Europe in Canada does happen as well. That's all I'm saying, unless we come to term that all of the scenarios happens concurrently (which it does), we'll be endlessly arguing back and forth Who said they weren't more likely? However, some say that they won't look at it at all, that's inaccurate Preferable but not always the case. What if the next Davies is from Charlottetown? He would undeniably end up in Halifax or a St.John's team. If that 16 years old outperform everyone, he will be tracked with CPL making it easier to expose that talent means that MLS. I'm not disputing your original point, but it's absurd to claim that a "Davies" or "David" from PEI wouldn't get a sniff just because of the CPL seal. This bring a fundamental question into play, who gets to that talent first? If it's an MLS team, they will get him into their system and he will move up. If CPL discover such talent, they'll keep him. We can argue MLS >>>CPL all day long, doesn't change the fact that a Davies scoring 30 goals 2 seasons in a row by age 18 in Halifax would get Euro attention. You must have gotten in the convo late. I never disputed that point, the back and forth started with people saying that USL would keep being more attractive to Canadian players than CPL (which it isn't / won't). It wasn't about MLS If CPL was starting from scratch, I'd be pessimistic but they had the humility to not go that route and use the best non-MLS academies and pros that were already producing good talent.
Your evidence that there are European scouts in Canada seems to be primarily “There are Canadians playing in Europe!” The problem with that is that, by and large, those players aren’t being scouted by a European scout (unless they made appearances for the national team). By scouting I mean team X is sending a person to Canada to find talent. What generally happens is the player catches the eye of a Canadian agent who then works their connections to get a trial set-up for the player and that often involves sending a highlight reel. Sometimes that ends up with the kid getting a trial with a North American club, but it can also result in the kid getting a trial with a European club. As an example, Lamar Neagle spent a a few months in Finland playing for Mariehamn. He didn’t get that gig because Mariehamn sent a scout to watch him play. He got the gig because he had a friend playing for Mariehamn and he used that connection to get a trial with them. http://sports.mynorthwest.com/16981/second-time-could-be-the-charm-for-sounders-lamar-neagle/? The answer is "Depends". If the kid is good enough, hopefully he catches the eye of one of the MLS teams and they work out a deal with his CPL team, or hopefully the EXCEL program is working correctly and he is getting call-ups to the youth national team. However, if that fails, the unfortunate truth is that he's going to have to work even harder to get attention. The most likely result is that the kid will end up in MLS. As an example, I took a look at the MVP, Defender of the Year, and GK of the Year for USL and MVP and Golden Glove for NASL back to 2014. Only one of them moved outside of North America and he was a 36 year old, former Liga MX player that went back to his home country in Venezuela. Of the rest, 11 of them went to MLS, 8 of them stayed in USL or NASL, and 1 went to a Liga MX team and that player got several USMNT call-ups that season. I would expect the Canadian MLS teams to be keeping a close eye on CPL and for MLS to be the first stop for players. I'm not sure that's what he said? His point seemed to be more that CPL would be as attractive as USL.
Great news for Alberta soccer and CPL "Alberta Soccer is proud to announce that the FC Edmonton and Cavalry FC U20 Development Teams will be joining the Alberta Major Soccer League this spring." https://t.co/jy1vQFbwjA#CPL #AMSL #Pathway— Alberta Soccer (@AlbertaSoccer) March 13, 2019