I agree generally the only thing is people will no doubt (usual suspects) start attacking the premise of your argument(re CR actually being the best CL player ever) Seriously though the 3 year untouchable prime of Ronaldinho is a myth This period allegedly commenced in 2004 a year during which he wasn’t clearly better than Henry/shevchenco/deco and ended in 2006(from around April his form took a major hit in all competitions) Statistically Ronaldinhos end product was nothing out of the ordinary Considering he played a wide player in 2005/06 he scored only 15 non penalty goals which is hardly even more than zinedine Zidane who was a CMF and did not hold a monopoly of FKs at Real Madrid (Btw we actually know from his time at Bordeaux he was a very capable FK taker but somehow the extremely inefficient Rcarlos got the nod and some times figo and later on Beckham) as a passer/chance creator I’m not sure his advanced stats would stack up so well against many contemporary playmakers who aren’t even legends of the game(cesc Fabregas,KDB) Lionel Messi(a legend of course) and yes even Neymar did reach that elite territory of playmaking in 2017 that was a step ahead of Ronaldinho gaucho It is hard to argue with people who think dinho was the best ever technically as if his ability was even half of that of Diego Maradonas I watched his untouchable performance against Milan and he literally if I’m not mistaken created only one clear cut chance all match(the assist to guily) There were some midfield dribbles that led to nothing but that’s it Apparently this is meant to be the standard of performance that CR could never reach A complete and utter joke
While that's true, I'd only argue about Ronaldinho not leaving a mark on the game. I mean more than 10 years since he left top level football, wherever he goes, he gets swamped with people wanting to get close to him. In that CWC game he played, the opposing players stripped him down after game. He is adored everywhere. But I guess you mean statistically.
Most under 25 year old fans grew up playing FIFA I can tell you that for the majority of youngish fans their fondest memories of Ronaldinho did not extend to watching his performances week in and week out La liga matches weren’t as widely broadcast in England in the early to mid 2000s.im unsure about Brazil but I’d wager beyond el Classico matches and some other high profile games there wasn’t many fans following him only a weekly basis Both zinedine Zidane and Ronaldinho gaucho are key beneficiaries of the YouTube era. zidane WCs exit and dinhos premature decline in 2006 directly coincided with the birth of YouTube that gave way to host of 5-10 min compilations on their greatest moments You ask any typical R10 fanboy why he was so great and he’d refer to 3-4 moments that have been heavily advertised over the past 13 years 1.) Standing ovation against Madrid 2.)the dribbling run against Bilbao(probably his most iconic dribbling run happened after his peak season) 3.) the SF performance against Milan in 06 4.)the juggle against Athletic Bilbao in 2003/04 5.)also his “great” performance in WC 02(he was literally great in 1 QF game and during the relevant time period he was considered to be the support cast of Rivaldo,R9,R Carlos)
Yes, and the adoration is understandable. The guy exudes the sense of just being laid-back and is artistic in his style of play, a personification of the Brazilian style of play that people the world over have loved for decades. He had an extremely attractive playing style visually. Doesn't mean he also wasn't very talented in his own right. At the end of the day he did win a Ballon D'Or. That's still an immense achievement all things considered and his individual rewards were deserved. He's just not anything close to being as decisive in a game as Ronaldo.
The same idiots that probably believe Ronaldinho is better than CR7 and once again, their arguments would fail miserably. It's not even a question. It's an absolute fact. For starters, the modern Champions League is much more difficult to win than the previous European Cup. There is literally no competition in the entire history of the sport that has such an aggregation of the best talent the world has to offer, competing for a single trophy. Because of nationality restrictions, not even the World Cup comes close. And it's why it took so long for a team to win back to back titles in the modern version of the tournament. Considering that, Cristiano Ronaldo: 1) Was the undisputed leading player of 5 different Champions League victories, with two different teams. For comparison, Messi has won 4, but in terms of leading and being the decisive player, he was not that person in his first CL win. That was Ronaldinho, followed by Deco, Eto'o and co. 2) He has the most goals in the competition's history. The real highlight is how many of those goals come in the most difficult parts of the competition, the knockout stage. And in that regard, he absolutely dwarfs anyone else, including Messi by such a huge margin that it should be enough that I stop here. But I'll continue. 3) Of the Top Scorers in a single CL/EC season, the Top 3 performances ever were by Cristiano Ronaldo. His top performance was 17 goals. Closest ever was Messi with 14. 4) As previously stated, winning back to back CL titles took so long to be achieved because of the difficulty of the competition. He led his team to not only two back-to-back CL titles, he went a step further and got them three in a row. That should be enough. If anyone wants to argue with that, then they're too stupid to even entertain. Oh, and he also leads in all-time assists in the competition's history. Lollll. He is the King of that competition and will never be dethroned. The fact that he achieved this in the same era of Messi should make the people you referenced probably stop and think. But they likely won't.
As far as the KO stages is concerned particularly from the QF to final his record is unreachable We are talking about a record of around 1gpg against the best club teams of his generation(and not over a low sample size of matches) In 2009 ronaldo was 1 match away from making Manchester United one of the top 10 club teams of all time Had he won that final he’d be the main protagonist behind 3 consecutive league titles and back to back champions leagues...at the age of 24 I’ve made this point many times but it is staggering how much he’d achieved and how much he’d developed Pre 2009
But in Ronaldinho's case, his style was backed with substance and titles. And we know he did much more than that. The Youtube comment is a bit lame because even the people that did see him week in week out would probably have the same reaction. And even if La Liga wasn't available in many places, CL was. Let me remind you of another thing, Barca were in bad shape when Ronaldinho arrived. Finished 6th in La Liga the season before and 4th in the previous 2 seasons. Probably worse than when Ronaldo arrived at Madrid. He helped start turning the club around. Ronaldinho also won every title available. La Liga, CL, WC, even Libertadores (although with quite a bit of fortune in the KO rounds). So that goes towards the substance argument. Yes he wasn't the main protagonist in the WC, but I've said this before, had Ronaldo not fluffed his chances in the first half, Ronaldinho would have had 2 assists. He put Ronaldo through 1v1 with Kahn with beautiful passes on those 2 occasions.
A complete and utter joke[/QUOTE] And anyone who knows what happened in that final knows Ronaldo dominated the first 20 minutes of that game and that his teammates were unable to contribute in any way. Right then and there he knew he had to go to Real Madrid. Of further point, Messi wasn't even the best Barcelona player in that final. Or second. Xavi and Iniesta ran that game.
Yet they were really far from winning the 2009 CL final and only won the previous version on PKs on a game that was really 50/50. ManU didn't dominate that game. So putting them on top 10 might be pushing it. And don't forget Barca didn't even have their main defense on that day. Toure playing as a CB and Puyol as FB. Many pundits were predicting ManU to tear that defense up.
He definitely was the main piece to their becoming CL winners but Ronaldo entered a Real Madrid side that went 5+ years unable to pass the Round of 16. Ronaldinho joined in 2003, Barcelona was in the QF and Semi-Finals of the CL in the seasons prior IIRC. Ronaldinho won the Ballon D'Or in 2005 and came 3rd in 2004. Behind Deco, who was his teammate at Barcelona. He was the center-piece of that team but he clearly had teammates around him that weren't far behind by any means and who were also crucial to Barcelona's success. In 2006, the year Barcelona won the Champions League, Ronaldinho didn't even make the podium for the Ballon, with Eto'o having nearly as many votes as him.
That's true but it was entirely down to the lack of quality in Ronaldo's teammates. Not because of Ronaldo. Anyone who watched the game knew this. They looked like pub players next to him. If his teammates had anything resembling the quality of Messi's teammates that day, it would be a completely different story. The fact that Messi had multiple teammates with a better game tells the whole story.
Yeah, but when Ronaldinho arrived, they weren't even qualified for the CL. And I don't use the CL the be all qualifier for the state of a team. Ronaldinho 2006 not making the podium was only because of the WC and post WC hangover. His club 05-06 season was great.
What kind of nonesense is this Manchester United faced great teams in both champions league finals not bloody einfahrt frankfurt or Steaua București Manchester United were a very complete team with a legendary CB duo and a GOAT inside forward and some hard working midfielders like Hargreaves who played a great role in the CL(he was a very good player but too injury prone) Scholes hardly played a role from my own recollection at least b4 the SF vs Barcelona (tevez/Rooney also top 20 players of their generation) Manchester United 07-09 is the greatest team of the greatest manager in club football history SAF (and he built quite a few great teams during his 25+ years at the helm) Also lets make clear I did not say they were a top 10 club team ever but if they won that Final they’d have strong claims for sure Also remind me how many times saachis Milan won the scudetto You make me laugh as if any team could win 3 consecutive league titles bearing in mind they did so when it was the undisputed top league in Europe (NOT the overrated PL version of today)
That's why I said the team shouldn't be top 10 even if they somehow won that final on an accident. It's not a comment on Ronaldo himself. But a comment on the team. Barca was vastly superior to ManU as a whole.
I disagree not as big as Milan vs Barcelona 1994(of course celito will conveniently forget this) Barcelona were overwhelming favourites but were comprehensively thrashed by savecivic and co
It was a great team .. just not top 10 imo. Strong defense for sure and good attack. Not much in the middle. Then again I am probably not good at making such a list. Players are already hard. So not really easy.
Fair enough, I didn't really disagree with anything you were saying. That WC was terrible for him though and Brazil overall. Huge expectations. Him and Kaka were supposed to run the show
My point, and I believe what @celito was also referring to, was the disparity in quality between the two teams and their players in general. Barcelona were overwhelming favorites in 1994 and they simply completely got the final wrong and had a really bad day. Porto against Monaco in 2004 ended 3-0 but that was because Porto had a great day and Monaco didn't (bad luck specifically, with Giuly going off early). My point being, say, if those Milan and Barcelona teams played a total of 10 games, that one game would be an outlier and the games on average would be much closer. Manchester United in 2011 was clearly a team that shouldn't even have been on the field with Barcelona. If those two teams played 10 games, Man U would get absolutely dominated in each. IMO, at least.
If we are going to talk about Ronaldo having donkeys at ManU, at least for that final, we can also talk about how bad Ronaldinho's and Kaka's teammates were in WC 06. Ronaldo was fat. Ronaldinho was feeding speedy players at Barca with Eto'o as main striker, in WC 06 he had to feed a guy who couldn't really run that much. Adriano was already into depression. Cafu and RC were past their prime although I think they got criticized a bit too much. And to be honest, don't think that magic square formation was a good idea to start with. It should have been R9 or Adriano ... not both. And I think Ronaldinho was also probably spent from 2 full seasons with no break.
If there was more access to his week in week out performances he’d be subject to more scrutiny Ronaldinho even in his absolute prime was hardly as consistent as his YouTube montage would suggest Real time opinions are always useful in these kind of discussions https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/ronaldinho-gaucho-news-and-discussion.4749/page-15 During dinhos 3 year untouchable prime he lost the la liga MVP to riquelme,the ballon dor to post prime shevchenco,lost the ballon D’Or to cannavaro,was according to yourself not even as good as kaka during his greatest year (2006) Was according to Barcelona fans not even la liga MVP in 05/06 Do you think there is even a remote possibility he’d have a chance of competing in the World player of the year in the late 80s with gullit,maradona,Van basten,if he can’t even convincingly beat those players
I recommend you watch games of Paul scholes in 2006/07 his 2nd greatest season after 2002/03 Zidane who? Also carrick is very underrated he was in fact the premier league equivalent of Sergio busquets
3 year untouchable prime??? Who stated such a thing?? He lost his single Ballon D'Or to a defender, such was the weak claim he had to the title. Ronaldinho won the Ballon in 2005. By 2007's award, he was behind... ROBINHO in votes won out. I'll say outright that every person that voted for Ronaldinho in the above poll and made any argument in this thread, truly believing that he was at any point better than Cristiano Ronaldo, should get themselves checked out for mental retardation. Either that or re-evaluate your entire life.