You realise though that these things are measuring something quite different to the exercise of what this is trying to measure? So Lewandowski and Muller both made an amazing start to the 2015-6 season, as recognized by the fact kicker gave both of them a World Class rating for that half-season. Therefore they were highly rated in the end of year rankings but didn't necessarily do all that well in the 2014-5 season?
100% agree, Lewandowski and Muller was all for the start of 15/16 not 14/15 which was pretty average for both, Lewandowski for example scored astonishing 5 goals in just 9 mins, then scored 2 the following weekend in Bundesliga win over Mainz and then a CL hat trick at home to Dinamo Zagreb, this meant 10 goals in a week, then 3 goals in two games to secure EC qualification all just prior to voting in big awards, this had a massive impact and caused him to finish so high in 2015 calendar year but ti was all 15/16 season, Muller also had the most prolific period of his career at the same time hence his position also.
You're right comme. Without a doubt, the best months of Lewandowski and Muller, observing the scores of the ESM correspond to the last months of 2015, which are the first months of the Bundesliga 2015-16. In my case, I value some rankings quite like the Guardian, but it gives the impression that the people who voted in 2015 took very much into account those last months of 2015 (season 2015-16). It is deceptive, therefore, since it would be more logical, I think, to pay more attention to the 2014-15 season, in which case, indeed, neither Lewandowski nor Thomas Müller deserve to be that high in the rankings of the magazines I cited. Take this opportunity to ask if you know any website that lists the ratings of the most important publications in the main European leagues and European tournaments. It would be a very interesting tool to be able to establish this type of rankings. I would also like, if possible, to tell me where the Kicker ratings appear (World Class ...).
He has been in the limit to be in the top 23 more than once, especially in 2012 and 2014. Actually, I included him in 2012, but in a later change I included Neymar instead of him. So far, I share the feeling that he should be one of the best central defenders of this last decade, but in the exercise season by season I also get the feeling that there is not one in which he has been an infalible candidate. This could disadvantage him taking into account his compatriot Gerard Piqué (3 inclusions: 2010, 2011 and 2015) or Mats Hummels (2 inclusions: 2011 and 2012), Vincent Kompany (1 inclusion: 2012), Dante (1 inclusion: 2013) and Diego Godín (1 inclusion: 2014) despite in a general analysis of their careers he could be arguably the most consistent. Anyway, I would like to know in what season you would include him, by whom and for what reason. Do you mean they shouldn't be in the top 23 for you? If so, why? They were 3 of the brightest players in the FA Premier League 2014-15.
For what I've been reviewing so far Robert Lewandowski seems an obligatory inclusion in the 2016 list and Thomas Müller a very likely (for the 2015-16 season). I'd to advance a question for anyone who has an opinion about it: what do you think is the top 3 of the next list (2015-16 season)? For now I presume between Luis Suárez, Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi, but it's difficult for me to determine an order between them because each one seems to have a particular case. After many years I think Luis Suárez surpasses them both in the Spanish League. I think there are some decline in Cristiano Ronaldo's level, but he breaks a UEFA Champions League record and is part of the conquest of the European Championship, while Lionel Messi retains a huge level, but maybe with some irregularities.
Kicker's rankings are all available here: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rangliste_des_deutschen_Fußballs/2010er The Kicker match ratings are available here: http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/...bundesliga/2014-15/topspieler-der-saison.html There is also a good website http://www.dbscalcio.it/ which will give you seasonal ratings for top leagues based on local publications.
Here's an overview file player-by-player for Kicker's rankings from 1955 to 2017: https://www.historical-lineups.com/...rman-Football-Players-A-to-Z-1955-to-2017.pdf
Those are the top three I think. I still think Messi was the best player in the league (just), even though Suarez and Ronaldo outscored him. It was clearly one of his weaker seasons but his overall game makes up for it. Once you include the continental competitions I think he stands out. If not them then I think Griezmann, Higuaín, Kante, Mahrez would be in contention for the top spots.
External lists for 2016: Calendar Year Ballon d'Or: (Maximum Points – 865) C Ronaldo (745), Messi (316), Griezmann (198), Suarez (91), Neymar (68), Bale (60), Mahrez (20), Vardy (11), Buffon (8), Pepe (8), Aubameyang 7, Rui Patricio 6, Ibrahimovic 5, Pogba 4, Vidal 4, Lewandowski 3, Kroos 1, Modric 1, Payet 1. Best FIFA Men's Player: C Ronaldo (34.54%), Messi (26.42%), Griezmann (7.53%), Neymar (6.32%), Suarez (5.11%), Bale (4.62%), Mahrez (2.20%), Buffon (1.85%), Iniesta (1.69%), Kroos (1.25%), A Sanchez (1.19%), Lewandowski (0.93%), Modric (0.89%), Ozil (0.86%), Vardy (0.81%), Neuer (0.80%), Sergio Ramos (0.70%), Ibrahimovic (0.50%), Pogba (0.47%), De Bruyne (0.46%), Kante (0.40%), Aguero (0.38%), Payet (0.17%). South American Player of the Year: Borja Eastern European Player of the Year: Oblak World Soccer Player of the Year: C Ronaldo 2015/16 Season La Liga (Spain) Best Player: Griezmann Footballer of the German Season: Boeteng Serie A (Italy) Best Player: Bonucci Footballer of the English Season: Vardy won the Football Writers Association (FWA) award and Mahrez the Professional Footballers Association (PFA) award. ESM Team of the Month Votes: Suarez 62, Godin 38, Higuain 30, Messi 28, Lewandowski 25, Marcelo 25, Filipe Luis 24, Keylor Navas 23, Pique 23, Pogba 23, Ibrahimovic 22, Ozil 22, C Ronaldo 22, Kante 21, Mahrez 21, Neymar 21, Buffon 20, Bonucci 19, Lahm 19, T Muller 20, Griezmann 19, Oblak 19, Sergio Ramos 19, Vardy 19. Euros 2016: 1. Griezmann, 2. C Ronaldo, 3. Giroud Copa America 2016: Golden Ball: A Sanchez
So, how you would order them? 1. Lionel Messi 2. Cristiano Ronaldo/Luis Suárez 3. Cristiano Ronaldo/Luis Suárez?
One mention in these 23 lists, maybe two, in a direct comparison is not a conclusive factor IMO, a strong argument yes, but still open to more evidences.
The feeling I have about Sergio Ramos coincides exactly with yours. Without being a top 10 in any season, in general terms no one can deny that he is one of the best players of this decade. In several seasons I have it between 15 and 30 of a hypothetical personal ranking, in particular in 2012 (member of the eleven of the UEFA season, FIFPro and ESM), 2014 (UEFA and FIFPro) and 2015 (UEFA, FIFPro and ESM). Central defenses of this last decade, there have been a lot of quality: Piqué, Chiellini, Hummels, Godín, Thiago Silva ..., but in my humble opinion, the best has been Ramos. Your Top 23 is very good and it is difficult to get someone out. In some season I have proposed some entry and exit, but not because no one deserved to leave the list, but because others have been able to accumulate some more merit.
This is my final list, at least until the final revision of the decade: 2015 AGÜERO, Sergio (Argentina & Manchester City) BUFFON, Gianluigi (Italy & Juventus) CRISTIANO RONALDO (Portugal & Real Madrid) DE BRUYNE, Kevin (Belgium & Wolfsburg) DE GEA, David (Spain & Manchester United) FABREGAS, Cesc (Spain & Chelsea) GRIEZMANN, Antoine (France & Atlético de Madrid) HAZARD, Eden (Belgium & Chelsea) JAMES Rodríguez (Colombia & Real Madrid) KANE, Harry (England & Tottenham Hotspur) MESSI, Lionel (Argentina & Barcelona) NEUER, Manuel (Germany & Bayern Munich) NEYMAR (Brazil & Barcelona) PIQUÉ, Gerard (Spain & Barcelona) POGBA, Paul (France & Juventus) RAKITIC, Ivan (Croatia & Barcelona) ROBBEN, Arjen (Netherlands & Bayern Munich) SÁNCHEZ, Alexis (Chile & Arsenal) SILVA, David (Spain & Manchester City) SUÁREZ, Luis (Uruguay & Barcelona) TERRY, John (England & Chelsea) TÉVEZ, Carlos (Argentina & Juventus) VIDAL, Arturo (Chile & Juventus) Top 3 1) MESSI, Lionel 2) CRISTIANO RONALDO 3) NEYMAR All lists
I agree. It's an exercise that helps a lot to check the consistency of the peaks of performance in the careers, but the exact limit of 23 gives a margin of uncertainty regarding the assessment of full careers, impact and legacy.
The Top 3 is not easy this year. Perhaps, with few differences: 1st) Cristiano Ronaldo. 2nd) Messi. 3rd) Luis Suárez.
I don't want to be a party-pooper (and I think Ramos will be seen as the best of his generation over time, with many factors going for him like his goals, the Madrid bonus, the trophies, fine ability with the ball, athletically great etc.) but surely his appalling disciplinary record must count against him? Not to forget he has been exposed as a cheat (but hey, if you are from the right club and country UEFA/FIFA/RFEF solves that for you), and that on three different counts. Outside of that, I also think some other central defenders of his era have been better at the tournaments. Both in an absolute count (number of good/great tournaments) and relative count (number of good tournaments as percentage of total participations). Your suggestions for the specific years (2012, 2014, 2015) look okay though. Before the 2014 World Cup took place he was certainly by many billed as the world's best defender and had reached the peak of his fame (not yet in 2012, just after his transformation & adaptation to central defense, but he might merit it).
I've included Sergio Ramos instead of Xabi Alonso in the 2012 list. In my opinion, both stood out in a similar level in all competitions, but for Ramos it was probably the trampoline that elevated him to a new level. I find it difficult to find a place in some other list for him, including the 2016.
Pepita D'Oro 2015 1- Lionel Messi 2- Neymar 3- Cristiano Ronaldo https://goalpoint.pt/pepita-de-ouro-2015_26495
Pepita D' Oro 2016 1- Lionel Messi 2- Thiago Alcantara 3- Eden Hazard https://goalpoint.pt/pepita-de-ouro-2016_39083
Pepita D'Oro 2017 1- Lionel Messi 2- Neymar 3- Phillipe Coutinho https://goalpoint.pt/pepita-de-ouro-2017-os-melhores-do-mundo_54039
My 2016 Preliminary List: AUBAMEYANG, Pierre-Emerick (Gabon & Borussia Dortmund) BALE, Gareth (Wales & Real Madrid) BUFFON, Gianluigi (Italy & Juventus) CRISTIANO RONALDO (Portugal & Real Madrid) GODÍN, Diego (Uruguay & Atlético de Madrid) GRIEZMANN, Antoine (France & Atlético de Madrid) HIGUAÍN, Gonzalo (Argentina & Napoli) IBRAHIMOVIC, Zlatan (Sweden & Paris Saint-Germain) INIESTA, Andrés (Spain & Barcelona) KANTÉ, N'Golo (France & Leicester City) LEWANDOWSKI, Robert (Poland & Bayern Munich) MAHREZ, Riyad (Algeria & Leicester City) MESSI, Lionel (Argentina & Barcelona) MKHITARYAN, Henrikh (Armenia & Borussia Dortmund) MODRIC, Luka (Croatia & Real Madrid) MÜLLER, Thomas (Germany & Bayern Munich) NEUER, Manuel (Germany & Bayern Munich) NEYMAR (Brazil & Barcelona) ÖZIL, Mesut (Germany & Arsenal) POGBA, Paul (France & Juventus) SUÁREZ, Luis (Uruguay & Barcelona) VARDY, Jamie (England & Leicester City) VIDAL, Arturo (Chile & Bayern Munich) Top 3 1) Lionel Messi/Luis Suárez 3) Cristiano Ronaldo Honorable Mentions ADURIZ, Aritz (Spain & Athletic Club) AGÜERO, Sergio (Argentina & Manchester City) ALABA, David (Austria & Bayern Munich) ALDERWEIRELD, Toby (Belgium & Tottenham Hotspur) ALLI, Dele (England & Tottenham Hotspur) ALONSO, Xabi (Spain & Bayern Munich) BARZAGLI, Andrea (Italy & Juventus) BELLARABI, Karim (Germany & Bayer Leverkusen) BEN ARFA, Hatem (France & Nice) BENZEMA, Karim (France & Real Madrid) BOATENG, Jérome (Germany & Bayern Munich) BONUCCI, Leonardo (Italy & Juventus) BORJA, Miguel (Colombia & Cortuluá|Atlético Nacional) BRAVO, Claudio (Chile & Barcelona) BRUNO (Spain & Villarreal) BUSQUETS, Sergio (Spain & Barcelona) CASEMIRO (Brazil & Real Madrid) CECH, Petr (Czech Republic & Arsenal) CHIELLINI, Giorgio (Italy & Juventus) COUTINHO, Philippe (Brazil & Liverpool) DANI ALVES (Brazil & Barcelona) DE BRUYNE, Kevin (Belgium & Manchester City) DE GEA, David (Spain & Manchester United) DE JONG, Luuk (Netherlands & PSV Eindhoven) DI MARÍA, Ángel (Argentina & Paris Saint-Germain) DOUGLAS COSTA (Brazil & Bayern Munich) DYBALA, Paulo (Argentina & Juventus) ERIKSEN, Christian (Denmark & Tottenham Hotspur) FILIPE LUÍS (Brazil & Atlético de Madrid) GABI (Spain & Atlético de Madrid) GABRIEL JESUS (Brazil & Palmeiras) GAITÁN, Nicolás (Argentina & Benfica) GAMEIRO, Kevin (France & Sevilla) GIMÉNEZ, José María (Uruguay & Atlético de Madrid) GIROUD, Olivier (France & Arsenal) GUERRA, Alejandro (Venezuela & Atlético Nacional) HAMSÍK, Marek (Slovakia & Napoli) HERNÁNDEZ, Javier (Mexico & Bayer Leverkusen) HULK (Brazil & Zenit Saint Petersburg) HUMMELS, Mats (Germany & Borussia Dortmund) ICARDI, Mauro (Argentina & Inter Milan) IGHALO, Odion (Nigeria & Watford) INSIGNE, Lorenzo (Italy & Napoli) JONAS (Brazil & Benfica) JUANFRAN (Spain & Atlético de Madrid) KANE, Harry (England & Tottenham Hotspur) KLAASSEN, Davy (Netherlands & Ajax) KOKE (Spain & Atlético de Madrid) KROOS, Toni (Germany & Real Madrid) KRYCHOWIAK, Grzegorz (Poland & Sevilla) LACAZETTE, Alexandre (France & Olympique Lyonnais) LAHM, Philipp (Germany & Bayern Munich) LLORIS, Hugo (France & Tottenham Hotspur) LUKAKU, Romelu (Belgium & Everton) MARCELO (Brazil & Real Madrid) MORGAN, Wes (Jamaica & Leicester City) NAINGGOLAN, Radja (Belgium & AS Roma) NAVAS, Keylor (Spain & Real Madrid) NOLITO (Spain & Celta de Vigo) OBLAK, Jan (Slovenia & Atlético de Madrid) OTAMENDI, Nicolás (Argentina & Manchester City) PAYET, Dimitri (France & West Ham United) PEPE (Portugal & Real Madrid) PERISIC, Ivan (Croatia & Inter Milan) PIQUÉ, Gerard (Spain & Barcelona) PJANIC, Miralem (Bosnia and Herzegovina & AS Roma) RAMOS, Sergio (Spain & Real Madrid) RAMSEY, Aaron (Wales & Arsenal) RENATO SANCHES (Portugal & Benfica) RUI PATRÍCIO (Portugal & Sporting CP) SALAH, Mohamed (Egypt & AS Roma) SÁNCHEZ, Alexis (Chile & Arsenal) SAPONARA, Riccardo (Italy & Empoli) SAÚL (Spain & Atlético de Madrid) THIAGO SILVA (Brazil & Paris Saint-Germain) TORRES, Macnelly (Colombia & Atlético Nacional) WEIGL, Julian (Germany & Borussia Dortmund) WILLIAN (Brazil & Chelsea)
A season that is particularly full of good performances leaves me some doubts, especially the exclusion of Toni Kroos, who had a season with 2 different halves. A first half in which he had difficulties being out of position and a second half in which he settled under Zidane's orders and reached high levels, also adding a very good Euro (for some sources the 2nd best player of the tournament behind Griezmann). Previously I also thought about Dimitri Payet, but revising it retrospectively I feel that he impressed me more before than now, despite a very good season with West Ham United and Euro. However, the biggest doubt I have is the top 3. Most sources are inclined to give first place to Cristiano Ronaldo and the reasons are obvious: he was not only the emblem player of the club that won the UEFA Champions League, but also he broke the record of goals in one edition (16) and he crowned his season with Portugal being European champion, a historic milestone for his country. The picture seems absolutely perfect, however, seen in detail there are contradictions in my opinion, especially when from his 16 goals in the continental competition 11 of them came from the weakest clashes of the group stage, against Malmö and Shakhtar Donetsk, and his influence seems to have been diluted from the semifinals (against Manchester City and Atlético de Madrid). In La Liga he remained a relentless scorer, but this time not one so imposing and surpassed by Luis Suárez, while it seems to me that then the criticism begin on the reduction of his area of action as a more stationed forward/striker. Finally, in the Euro he began something slow, similar to the discretion that Portugal showed in the group stage and until his appearance against Wales in the semifinals. Unfortunately for him his participation in the final was short and he had to leave the field promptly finishing a difficult campaign to analyze in contrast to the title won. Strangely, this was perhaps the best season of his career in terms of group glory (and his career has been impressive), but it didn't coincide with his best season despite the numbers from my perspective. For that reason, I think he couldn't be higher than the 3rd place. On the other hand, it was not an ideal season for his usual competitor, Lionel Messi. Even with many extraordinary performances and showing a usual impressive talent, his role on the field changed as a more productive player in creation and distribution than in definition and his usual numbers were reduced in favor of his partner, Luis Suárez. Barcelona achieved success in Spain but fell in the quarterfinals of the UEFA Champions League moving away from the continental protagonism. To add, despite the fact that Copa América Centenario ended up representing a negative milestone for him and Argentina due to be perceived as a third failure, his overall individual level was really good (in my opinion he was the best player of the tournament over Arturo Vidal and Alexis Sánchez and was clearly over to Cristiano Ronaldo's performance in Europe). In the case of Luis Suárez, it seems that there is an absolute consensus that he was the best player in La Liga surpassing Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo (something that had not happened for years) being impressively the top scorer and top assistant of the tournament. He also had a great production in the UEFA Champions League (9 goals and 2 assists), but, like Messi, the departure of Barcelona in the quarterfinals distanced him from the final instances. At international stage, I think he was the best Uruguayan player in the World Cup qualifying stage scoring against Brazil, Paraguay and Colombia, although he didn't participate in the Copa América Centenario because of an injury. For now I tend to bit more to order: 1. Suárez, 2. Messi and 3. Cristiano Ronaldo. I'll appreciate your thoughts.