Okazaki , Kagawa and Inui is a little surprise although Kagawa is not even on the bench anymore. Hasebe and Honda retired.
Some years ago, Kagawa's fans (in another website) went mad because I dared compare Son Heung-Min to Kagawa... SHM was still playing for Hamburg...
except this isn't true. just Osako, Haraguchi (can't believe he made the squad) and Hiroki Sakai. the current big 3 play outside of the top 5 league (unless you count Liga Nos) and the rest aren't top 10 at their respective clubs in playing time. about even. strength and flaws are similar too.. GK, errors in defense (Nagatomo isn't the same guy you guys remembered back in 2011 Asian Cup) and FWs who can't score. Korea has star player in Son while Japan edges in overall depth of the squad but this is usually the case imo. Korea typically has strong starting XI w/ a star while not much separates between starting XI & bench options for Japan but without a clear star (only exclusion is Keisuke Honda i guess but in EU club wise, he never reached the stardom of Son, Park JS, Cha BK or even Kagawa).
Just look up stats. Shibasaki (La Liga) - No Muto (EPL) - No Yoshida (EPL) - Yes Osako (Bundesliga) - Yes Haraguchi (Bundesliga) - Yes Sakai (Ligue 1) - Yes Not really. https://www.transfermarkt.com/afc-asian-cup-2019/marktwerte/pokalwettbewerb/AM19 5 out of the top 10 highest valued players in the Asian Cup are Japanese. Korea has 2 players in the top 10. All of Japan's starting defenders are regular starters in Europe now. Korean defenders play in Korea, Japan and China. Osako can't score but his dirty job helps Japan's midfilders score. Japan scored 15 goals in the 5 post-WC friendlies including 4 against a tough defensive team like Uruguay.
Yoshida is a clear NO. He wasn't playing at all til last month & I did look up stats. Also, not sure what "value" from transfermarkt mean anything? My opinion/statement is subjective but "value" of transfermarkt doesn't indicate anything of the qualities of both squad (such as strength and flaws). Muto is the highest "valued" player for Japan but we both know he won't start under Moriyasu since he only made the squad with Asano being injured (not that he deserved to make the squad) And again, so? I fully know where they play (not all regular starters play in Europe.. Makino will likely start ahead of Tomiyasu, who only has 2 caps so far. won't even surprise me if Moriyasu start Sho Sasaki too). Yoshida isn't a regular btw til recently.. at best, he is rotational player with Southampton. The way Japan leaked goals against Uruguay at Saitama was pathetic. As for Osako, I agree with you completely (and rate him highly for it.. the way I rate Ji DW) but again, he doesn't score (of which, Korea share the same problem in the FW position). CF do the dirty work (while most in this forum.. whine if the FW doesn't score) & let the 2nd line of offensive players score. edit - fyi... Korea only leaked 4 goals since the WC against similar opposition.
What are you blabbing about...kagawa was close to being world class back in 2011ish timeline. Stop hating just because he’s japanese
Just searched again and you are right. He was in the top 10 as of yesterday's my first post here and now the 11th. He got a rest yersterday. Still being the 11th in the team means first team status though. Their market values are objective data and quoted by various football media. They aren't 100% correct but reflect the quality of players to some extent. Tomiyasu is definitely ahead of Makino in the pecking order. He was among the first team players in the Venezuela match and Makino started in a meaningless Kyrgyz match with B-team players. Tomiyasu has been already linked with many top league teams and will leave Belgium after the season. As for Yoshida, see above. Anyways he has played more than 150 games in England and none of other current CBs from Asia can match his experience in Europe. Don't judge by stats. Having better defenders means that you can play a more risky attacking football. That's why Japan can score a lot of goals comapred to other Asian teams.
I'm confused. Who exactly are Japan's starting defenders? They have been rotating their back 4 a lot since the WC. Tomoaki Makino and Genta Miura has started a couple of matches, but they do not play in Europe. Gen Shoji hasn't been part of the national team since the WC match against Belgium and he hasn't even been called up for the Asian Cup. Also does it matter if they play in Europe? The last time we played against Japan, a 30 year old Kim Shin-wook ran circles around Gen Shoji. Back in 2011, BSJ members thought Neymar was a good competition to Usami. They got irritated when people tried to compare Son Heung-min to him. Personally, I don't hate Japanese players that had a good relationship with our KPAs (Honda with Kim In-sung, Hasebe with Koo Ja-cheol, Okazaki with Park Joo-ho, etc.) But you can't deny that you're more likely to see Kagawa on the side of a milk carton than a BVB lineup nowadays.
1. league mins.. not sure he is even top 11 (5 players are ahead of him from defense alone in league mins played). again, he wasn't playing at all more or less til last month. also, not sure he got a "rest" today considering they just hired a new manager & the younger CBs started ahead of him vs Man City. 2. market value is not objective data. values thrown around by CIES, transfermarkt and etc are all subjective. they aren't even "true" values. quality of "individual" players do not show the strength and flaws of the squad either. 3. Tomiyasu is definitely not ahead of Makino. heck, Moriyasu is the manager.. less likely he starts, especially when you consider the history of Makino + Yoshida partnership. i want the kid to start ahead of Makino (i can't stand him) but Makino started 3 games (even as captain in the last game) while only 2 for Tomiyasu (venezuela had B squad btw). Also, I can't say Japan has so called "better" defenders. Again, this is subjective but excluding Hiroki Sakai.. the rest are questionable (Nagatomo is clearly on the down while Sho Sasaki is garbage.. as is Makino. Yoshida is just as error prone like any other defenders between the two sides). Btw, it was you who brought up "stats"...and "judged"
Did i say kagawa is a good player these days? The poster i was responding to was comparing kagawa of his prime back in 2010-2012 to son of his hamburg days, which is ludicrous because son was just making his mark while kagawa was near world class during that time.
Yeah, I don't think the Son to Kagawa was a good comparison, but I don't think he posted that because he didn't like Japanese players.
The back four will be Nagatomo (Galatasary), Yoshida (Southampton), Tomiyasu (Sint-Truiden) and Sakai (Marseille). Shoji had been injured. All 16 teams in the WC knockout stage had at least double-digit players in Europe. Congrats but it's a friendly. Shoji has just moved to France thanks to his brilliant performance in the WC. The appointment of the new manager was good news for him. The previous one was a bloody fool and some delusional Saints fans even suspected that the Chinese owner of the club asked him to bench Yoshida. Since November, Yoshida has started most of the games. FYI, Southampton changed six starters yesterday from the previous game. The numbers they publish are often quoted by major sports media like BBC. What's your obsession with Makino? Every Japanese media expects Tomiyasu to start at the AC. He is already a top CB in Belgium. Are there any Asian left or right backs who has played the Champions League this season except for Nagatomo? Like it or not, Yoshida is the only CB at the AC who has played triple-digit games in a major league. Sakai is a beast.
imo, Makino starting may be a possibility as well. It was actually a tournament. I wish him the best of luck in France tho. He'll need it when he's playing against better forwards that are not traffic cones (eg. Kim Shin-wook).
The fact that some Japanese guy has to come here and tell us how strong the JNT is makes me less concerned about meeting them in the final lol. Very different from the Kagawa + Honda days when we didn't need explaining.
1. umm..i won't even bother with the Chinese owner BS. and yes, Southampton made six or so changes but that doesn't mean Yoshida was rested with a new manager. Bedernarek is the one constant CB so far under new manager.. while guys like Stephens & Vestargaard played more this season over Yoshida. with Yoshida being the oldest, good chance he will likely be phased out ... 2. quoted by BBC? i don't think BBC and so forth quote Transfermarkt "values" when they report on transfers. majority of their reports are on "likely fee demanded by the so called selling club" or "buyout fee" and so forth. also, Son = 50m > 47.5m of 5 Japanese players. it really means nothing... CIES has Son somewhere around 90 to 100m+. He alone cost more than all AFC teams I believe. It is pointless to use subjective transfer value to point out strength and flaws of each squad. 3. No, not every media expect Tomiyasu to start. I follow JNT closely & can read Japanese too (i'm half japanese). Yoshida & Hiroki are likely starters. Nagatomo vs Sasaki.. im not exactly sure because of Moriyasus connection with Hiroshima (but probably, Nagatomo will start.. but he hasn't been good in a while with JNT anyways & clearly on the way down).
They have a strong offense though but weak ass defense even their defenders plays in europe. Our sonny will eat them alive.
If KCH were healthy, we would have been deadly. Who do you guys reckon will fill that right AM role for us? HHC or LCY?
if korea and japan both finish first in group stage they can only meet in the finals think japan as a team have higher level of completeness right now. dont believe their players are more talented than korean players but they are more experienced in bigger matches (europe based players) and their team appear to function better as whole. if korea wants to have an edge against japan they will need to use the matches in the tournament to raise their tactical totality
Yeah exactly, I don't hate Japanese players. I'm just surprised with the different path they've taken : back then Kagawa was the best player in Asia, now he's not even called up in Japan while SHM turned himself as the best player from Asia. I had the intuition SHM could be one of best Asian player, that's why I compared him to Kagawa. If my memory serves me, I didn't even say SHM was better than Kagawa, I just mentioned both of them in the same sentence : It was enough for some fanboys (which are not even Japanese btw) to go mad. So, no hate against Japan.
Holy sh*t, as much as I love stirring banal bullsh*t arguments, but this is a new level. Discussing the definition of a starter, conspiracy theories and etc. Especially on the conspiracy theory, Yoshida hasn’t been good this season. He was benched during the 2015-16 season for the same reason, unless you’re saying Katharina Liebherr is also secretly Chinese plotting the downfall of Yoshida or whatever. Just a bad comparison to begin with. Different style, different position, different age, not to forget different players at different times. Back then Kagawa was at the peak of his career and Son was just starting out, and hindsight is 20/20. Back then you or they didn’t have a clue what could happen in 7 years time. Unless you can look into the future, then I take it all back, you’re great, and PM me which ETFs I should buy in for next year. Remember on naver or daum before the U-20 World Cup or something, there was an article comparing Doan Ritsu to Lee Seung-Woo, and fans blew their sh*t saying a future world superstar cannot be compared to some Japanese youth player. Arguably, Id say that Doan has a better career performance than Lee at the moment, but doesn’t mean that the fans were just fanboying back then given that Lee had shown much more at the youth stage.