There have always been pro teams in the PDL. I know that. But it's usually the geographically isolated from other pro teams (Kitsap Pumas) and a few others. It has never been more than a small few. The PDL and NPSL are not designed to be leagues of professional players. They exist to fill a niche - to provide structured soccer between late may and the end of July for NCAA/NAIA soccer players. That's why they exist. That's their niche. To obliquely try to call or project them as the basis of a "D4" is to strain all credulity.
I'm not sure if it's a "buy your amateur status back," but players are permitted to "switch" from pro to amateur. It's filed through the Federations. It's called "amateur reinstatement." This can be done only once every two years. To address the second part, yes, the league does matter -- mainly more for amateur eligibility for college athletics. When players register to play college athletics, they have to go through a clearinghouse. In that clearinghouse, they have a database of "pro" leagues and "amateur" leagues. This enables the governing bodies to know if players were in-fact "pro" or "amateur." I've seen players lose eligibility based on their league affiliation they played in -- league allowed for paying of players, but did not specify the league as being "amateur." So, the governing body classified them as a "pro" league. EDIT: not sure how it's possible, except through some NCAA loopholes, but I've definitely seen/had professional players playing in NCAA. It's strange, but there is a way around it, somehow. I know it boils down to when contract was signed, and potentially how much they were able to earn. Yeah, that PDL+ went by rather quietly. I never did know who were the driving clubs behind that? Myrtle Beach Mutiny were another club I knew paid their players, when they were in NPSL. I knew of them through the years, but never kept track of who they were. Kitsap definitely were for several years. Milwaukee Torrent are another NPSL side that pays. Right now, I'm not sure there is a PDL club that does. I would imagine that the PDL winners, Calgary Foothills, could possibly be in that category. If I'm not mistaken, they didn't have any US-affiliated college players.
Not sure why you are projecting this on me? I never once claimed they were D4. Won't do that either. If USSF wanted to have an amateur division, they are more than capable of developing that and anyone could fill that void -- whether that is D4, D5, or beyond. Pyramids across the whole world have amateur divisions as high as D3. So, not sure why having an amateur D4 in the US would be an issue, if it were to happen?
You used to have to pay a fee. I would imagine you still do. When I worked with professional and amateur teams and players and USSF, we used the shorthand "buy back your amateur status." Whether that's the correct nomenclature or not, that's effectively what we had to do. Then how come the NCAA regs say "team" and not "league?" (Effectively, you're not going to have an amateur team in a professional league, so it's six of one, half-dozen of the other. But if someone - for some reason - decided to have an amateur team in a professional league (and remember the W-League was officially an "open" league, it's possible other leagues are, too), the team would be the determining factor. At least according to the actual NCAA regulation, which defines a professional team and says you lose your eligibility if you play on one. Not if you play in a professional league per se. That's a recent change, innit? And doesn't it apply to those who were in an academy or something between high school and college? I forget. See, this is what I'm saying. Any PDL pro clubs have been shrouded in mystery.
=============== We alway talk about how big this country is, so another division would not necessarily be bad IMO. I would settle for a PDL + NPSL merger with new standards (even if low) to attempt some stability in the form of a officially sanctioned D4. And while I am dreaming, a slightly longer schedule if possible. - Question, lets say a MLS team has a full academy system, U10, U12, U14, U16,U18 etc. What then happens to those players? Off to college (JC - NAIA- NCAA) and play in PDL (or NPSL) in order to make for an extended season? Or now with the new USL3 = USL League 1 is that the landing point for players who are not going to college and want the longer season the USL League 1 will have ? = Is that a possible solution for players who want EITHER to go the college route or the academy route and eventually land in USL League 1 to "start their professional career" ?
The Tampa Bay Rays bought the Rowdies. I feel like the Rowdies just moved up the pecking order a bit with MLB ownership. Hopefully they redesign the crest too.
I believe that is kind of the intention right now. It's similar to the high school baseball players that jump right into the minor league system or the hockey players that jump into Juniors or lower level professional leagues like the SPHL or FHL. The NBA is restructuring the G-League to give that option to high school basketball players.
That's interesting. Before my time in dealing with it. This year, there was no "buy back" fee, nor was there last year. Those are the only two years I have dealt with it before. There may be a small "application" or "registration" fee that is added on to the already-required player registration fee. It would just be a nominal $25-50 if that's the case, if memory serves me right. Well, the problem first arises with the definitions of "amateur." Across the world, amateurs can still make money, most of the time it just deals with "reimbursement" or stipends for housing, food, travel, etc. That's not quite the definition for amateur to NCAA. So, amateurism in the US deals with NCAA's own choice on who and what is an amateur. If a league is designated as a pro league, then the NCAA has already flagged for possible eligibility issues. If the league is designated as an amateur league, there's no flagging for eligibility issues. What THEN could happen is a further look into the team that is part of the amateur league. These "amateur" leagues have teams that can pay bonuses of $50-100+ for being rostered, scoring goals, etc. That's effectively "professional" by NCAA regulations. Across the world, that's still classified as amateur. Thus, one would be playing in an amateur league but could be on a "pro" team. It's been several years, but I've helped kids work on their clearing house. I remember a section where the kid would have to put their past playing experiences. If it happened to be a recognized league, that league would be available by selection in a drop-down menu, country>league. There never was a team selection. They would have to include their team separately, if that was available to write-in. I honestly don't know how some of these players have gotten eligibility, honestly. I literally had to do an amateur reinstatement for a player who played DII for two seasons. He was still registered as a pro in his home country. There is an NCAA regulation that does state that NCAA eligibility doesn't really become an issue UNTIL college starts (either first training session OR first class, whichever comes first) -- these are my words, not exactly how it is written by NCAA. That's why we use to see (and still do on occasion) Academy products that are still in HS playing with MLS Reserve teams (when that existed) or they can now play in USL with a 2/B team. There's always some exemptions, but I'm not sure how those work at times, and other times they don't. Hockey is loaded with them. Many times the players are exempt if/when the contract is signed while they are still in the academy and essentially sign a "youth" contract that holds them until 20-22. All of this is part of the reason why I try to rid the US of the "semi-pro" terminology. It only muddies the water more than what already exists in this "amateurism" issue.
I cannot think it's ever going to be possible for PDL and NPSL to merge. What's more likely (which is even highly unlikely) is USSF to create an amateur division(s) and each league would have to ensure their membership meets those league standards. It could mean there are multiple leagues in the same division (which is not a bad problem, it happens all over the world too). A longer schedule won't happen, as long as another amateur "division" exists (college athletics). What would be nice: NCAA allows players to actually utilize their own abilities and play for other amateur teams in their non-championship season. Then, we could possibly see more local stability in the spring season AND into the summer with amateur players playing from March to July. I don't see USL1 as truly a place that will grab any 18-20 year old (not a college grad, essentially) to develop them for MLS or USL Championship. Tormenta is currently the only team that has announced any players signed. Those players are 24, 22, and 22+ (not sure the other's age, but is a college grad). Yes, the rest of the league could possibly change this roster selection. But, in the recent history of US soccer, when has any team shown they want to sign young players and actually develop them? The planned budgets for USL1 teams isn't exactly enticing for players to forego college to chase a pro career -- a rough $10,000 a year average.
Oh, thank God! Look, I'm really happy the Indy Eleven are playing at Lucas Oil Stadium and enjoyed every visit there I could (would have made every home match, but the Wednesday night-heavy schedule at the end of the season conflicted with my college classes and I want to do the best I can in school), but we went through some issues with the Fieldturf. I can only imagine the horrors of digging up whatever sentient creature they drag out just to spray FIFA regulatory line distances.
So I wonder what will be the big new items to come out of the winter meetings? Any guesses ? Wonder what other team movements there will be especially in the Premier league? What I have read for next year and please update or correct me if wrong=== - Ottawa appears to be staying, rather than going to CSL Richmond drops a level Penn sits out a year Rochester comes back and drops a level Orlando B comes back and drops a level Cincinnati moves to MLS - With the new teams coming in, still leaves the Premier level rather large and unwieldy. I would still like the league left with east- west conferences, or if they go to divisions- 4 divisions rather than the odd 3 division set up. Makes it much easier to set for playoffs. Top 4 teams in the 4 divisions gives you that nice 16 number to have your 4 round playoff.
I think you have most of the changes but also: Toronto II is also dropping down to USL-1 Rochester isn't starting in USL-1 until 2020 With the 7 new expansion teams that means the USL-Championship will have 36 teams. USL-League One is starting with 10 teams. We shall see what they do about alignment. I think a lot of it will depend on what they think will happen in 2020 and beyond. 36 teams in two conferences is lot (18 per conference) but that is exactly the 34 game regular season if teams play a double round robin. The talk was about 3 conferences at 36 teams (12 teams per conference) but I don't know if they are going to stick with that. Divisions within the conferences are also possible. If they think the league is going to keep getting bigger then three or four conferences would make the most sense to me and would really help to regionalize the schedules. If they think some teams including the MLS2 teams will continue to drop down to USL-1 then maybe just stay with two conferences for now.
I'd like them to stick with 36 teams at that level in 2 conferences. Even with expansion, there will be "drops". Geographically, you split the League 1 level into 4 with 2 regions within the 2 conference East/West that match's the Championship level.
We'll see what happens. I'd be surprised if the USL denies teams that want to join the Championship level if that would push the league over 36 teams. Right now there are two teams supposedly joining in 2021. More may come along. Will there be exactly 2 teams dropping down before then? Maybe. As far as League 1 that is going to depend on how that expands. Get up to enough teams for two conferences first. There are 10 teams for 2019 with 2 more scheduled for 2020. On the negative side, Ottawa may wind up moving to the CSL at some point. Maybe TFCII but I kind of doubt it. There will also probably be more drops/expansion but will that be enough for 2 conferences/4 divisions? We shall see.
Nashville is going to MLS so there's 1 already! And like you said, Ottawa may be another. To me, and maybe since USL is owned by someone other than the teams, then the owner isn't helped by this, but if you stop expansion at 36 ... people that want into the Championship Level could potentially "buy" the Championship rights from other owners (say an owner thinking about moving down anyways) for a high fee and that club would then drop to League One ... which would potentially help some owners stay in the "ownership game". Penn FC could have sold their Championship rights to USL Chicago for $5M (what Chicago likely paid as an expansion price) and that would help fund Penn FC's League One team for years!? MLS2 teams could sell the rights to their Championship level teams on the way to moving down. Supply and Demand or something like that.
To be fair, I wanted MLS to stop at 24 too and that didn't happen. It would ideally push investment to the lower league while raising the value of that league (MLS or USL Championship) by limiting the supply. Existing owners that see the "value/worth" of their team raise, could justify putting more money into their organization, depending on them getting that money back when they sold the team potentially. I'd be more likely to stomach losing $1M/year over 10 years if I knew the value of the club I owned (or the franchise rights to that club) increased in value from $2M to $20M over that time.
Ottawa Fury are on borrowed time. The CSA might renew their USL Championship sanction for 2019 (they haven't yet), but most observers thinks it's very doubtful the CSA allows them in USL pass 2019. They can move up to CPL, move down to League 1 Ontario, sell to CPL investors who wants a team in Ottawa or fold. As for TFC II, they will most likely stay in USL League One as TFC III plays in League 1 Ontario and CPL refuses to allow them in the league. When CPL 2 launches (tentative 2026), they might join it without being allowed promotion to Premier League. As for Calgary Foothills, TSS FC Rovers, Victoria Highlanders, WSA Winnipeg and Thunder Bay Chills, they will likely remain in USL League Two until: CPL acquired League 1 Ontario Canadian Premier League acquires Ontario Soccer’s League1 Ontario📝: https://t.co/R0ANeyN9dW | #CanPL pic.twitter.com/VXJjrh7UBw— Canadian Premier League (@CPLsoccer) November 14, 2018 L1O said the deal would upgrade current league's operations and a rebranding is expected to be announce soon. That would most likely eventually bring Thunder Bay Chill into the league. The OSA under the CSA had revoked all Ontario team's sanction to PDL except them. CPL announces that they are looking at acquiring the Quebec D3 league (PLSQ), acquiring other leagues and launching new ones at D3 level. A Western league would bring the remaining clubs under the CSA pyramid.
Will there be a limit of how many American born players will be allowed in this league or will they count as foreigners? Just curious....
The CPL will require that at least half a team’s roster be Canadian and that at least 6 players on the field be Canadian as well..
=================== so if we have 36 teams, then 4 divisions of 9 would work, geographically balanced as possible. Within the division home and away against the other 8 teams= 16 games, almost half your season schedule. The rest would be unbalanced since you have 27 other teams, so not really sure what they will come up with. Thus, keep it 2 conferences of 18 team. 17 x 2 = 34 games all within your conference? Make the playoffs cross over against the other conference? Top 8 in the West vs. the top 8 in the east ?