US Goalkeeper discussion thread - Part III

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by ussoccer97531, Nov 15, 2017.

  1. asoc

    asoc Member+

    Sep 28, 2007
    Tacoma
    Steffen wasn't even among the top three American GK's in MLS this year.
    A top Keeper saves two of the three goals he conceded on Sunday imo.
    https://www.mlssoccer.com/media-resources/stat-sheets
    Scroll down to the goalkeeper stats.


    https://www.sounderatheart.com/2018/11/6/18069454/stefan-frei-goalkeeper-of-the-year
    I linked the important part from that article, unless you want to read about the Frei homerism. But that's not what I am posting about.
     
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  2. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    So why did Steffen win the award and not Frei or Robles/
     
  3. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    SUM
     
  4. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    He was terrible against Ireland. But that's because he barely played in the 6 months prior to that game. If he played a half against England or Italy, he'd be more fresh. He's a top 5 option for me. Having him train doesn't hurt. Especially as (i'd imagine) he wants to head back to Denmark sooner or later.
     
  5. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    His NT creds couldn't possibly have pushed him that highly could it? Didn't he simply grab more of the player votes. So, his opponents must have thought highly of his goalkeeping prowess.
     
  6. asoc

    asoc Member+

    Sep 28, 2007
    Tacoma
    Its popularity and politics. Not statistics. There is a lot of backroom machinations that you don't hear about. Like players who will vote for a player who they don't think should win in order to not give the vote to a more competitive pick who happens to be competing against one of their team mates. Players can't vote for their own team mates, but they can certainly not vote for the next best, or the next next best.

    Media overwhelmingly went to Frei.
     
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  7. asoc

    asoc Member+

    Sep 28, 2007
    Tacoma
    Something else to keep in mind. Keepers age differently than field players. Some of our keepers who deserve a shot are going to still be going strong come next world cup.

    I am not opposed to the argument I have read in here about sticking to a keeper either. Consistency is very important. I think its a valid argument. And I don't dislike Steffen.
     
  8. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Klinsmann was local (enough). Hamid wasn't on the initial roster. He'll likely be at January camp.

    Lets also not revise history. Hamid has played four NT games in the last two years. Three appearances have been good, one not so good. The not so good appearance also was during a stretch where he played three first team games in 8.5 months. He was in no position to be playing well. It would've been even more impressive if he could do well with that little match practice.

    Hamid returned to MLS, and was the best keeper in the league in the second half of the season. That should not be a surprise, considering he had been the best keeper in MLS for around five years. Hamid is only 27 years old. He's not old for a keeper. A good rule for keepers is to take a full cycle off their age (four years), considering they play to older ages. Hamid is the equivalent of a 23 year old field player (nearly 24 because he turns 28 soon). He's entering his prime or recently has.

    Steffen has a good claim at the #1 spot, but he's not solidified it. He has yet to establish himself as the clear best keeper in MLS. He's been outplayed in MLS by keepers like Hamid, Robles, Frei, Melia the last couple of seasons.
     
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  9. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Isn't Hamid back in Denmark yet?
     
  10. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    On loan until spring 2020 I believe. But the club could surely recall him from the loan. But the best chance of that would probably be in the summer. That way he can compete for the no.1 spot. I believe he can do it. He has the talent. The previous move went bad. His season ended in October. Danish league ended in December and didn't start again until February. He was part of the US squad in January. Probably assumed it'd have kept him fresh. But he should have remained with his team. Any time away from a new club isn't helpful for the newbie (especially if you're a GK and your first time abroad).
     
  11. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I 'd like to see Hamid get back to Denmark and play. And it would be great if he could play over there and get another shot at the MNT. And I would give him a shot again if I was in charge. But that said. I worry that he is one of those players who just doesn't gel when he plays for the Nats. Some guys actually elevate their game and look better for the Nats than their club teams (for one thing they have a better team surrounding them in some cases). But some guys just falter on that stage for whatever reason. Not saying that's where Bill is at but I worry.
     
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  12. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    I remember that Hamid did a bunch of training (off-season) with Everton and West Brom like 4-5 years ago. It's a shame he never left MLS before he did. Primarily after 2014 when he got the MLS Goalkeeper of the Year. Even if he wasn't all that good, he could have managed in a mid-tier league (Belgium/Turkey/Netherlands). And that's not half bad.
     
  13. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    I think he is a very athletic guy who isnt a good goal keeper. He is deficient in many areas of the basic part of the position that he was able to get away with because of his athletic ability. A GK like him gets found out at higher levels and the mistakes gets punished.
     
  14. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree with that.
     
  15. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    Good enough to be among the best in MLS for several years.
     
  16. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    How many of the best GKs in MLS have been international quality?

    Season Winner Second Third Fourth Fifth
    1996 Mark Dodd Jorge Campos Dave Salzwedel Mark Dougherty
    1997 Brad Friedel Walter Zenga Tony Meola Mike Ammann
    1998 Zach Thornton Kevin Hartman David Kramer Ian Feuer
    1999 Kevin Hartman Zach Thornton Matt Jordan Tom Presthus
    2000 Tony Meola Joe Cannon Kevin Hartman Zach Thornton
    2001 Tim Howard Joe Cannon Zach Thornton Tom Presthus
    2002 Joe Cannon Nick Rimando Tim Howard Kevin Hartman
    2003 Pat Onstad Zach Thornton Kevin Hartman Adin Brown
    2004 Joe Cannon (2) Jon Busch Bo Oshoniyi Pat Onstad
    2005 Pat Onstad (2) Joe Cannon Matt Reis Bo Oshoniyi
    2006 Troy Perkins Matt Reis Pat Onstad Preston Burpo Dario Sala
    2007 Brad Guzan Pat Onstad Matt Reis Joe Cannon Troy Perkins
    2008 Jon Busch Matt Reis Jon Conway Greg Sutton William Hesmer
    2009 Zach Thornton (2) Pat Onstad Kasey Keller Matt Reis Jon Busch
    2010 Donovan Ricketts Kevin Hartman Jimmy Nielsen Joe Cannon Zach Thornton
    2011 Kasey Keller Faryd Mondragón Kevin Hartman Nick Rimando
    2012 Jimmy Nielsen Dan Kennedy Michael Gspurning Nick Rimando Josh Saunders
    2013 Donovan Ricketts (2) Nick Rimando Jimmy Nielsen Luis Robles
    2014 Bill Hamid Nick Rimando Steve Clark Jaime Penedo
    2015 Luis Robles David Ousted Bill Hamid Chris Konopka
    2016 Andre Blake Luis Robles Tim Howard Bill Hamid David Bingham
    2017 Tim Melia Andre Blake Stefan Frei Alex Bono Sean Johnson
    2018 Zack Steffen Stefan Frei Luis Robles Tim Melia Brad Guzan
     
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  17. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    By that do you mean CONCACAF or beyond? Cause so many of those can (or should be able to) easily handle the likes of El Salvador or T&T.
     
  18. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Those are Semi-Final Round teams. The Hex teams we need to beat are Panama, Costa Rica, Mexico, Honduras, and (likely) Jamaica.
     
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  19. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    After viewing the England match, what do you reckon Guzan's legacy with the NT will be?
     
  20. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    Before viewing this game: on pace to have a statue outside the U.S. Soccer Hall of Fame

    After this game: third worst player of all time behind Bradley and Altidore
     
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  21. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ive said this for awhile now. Its time for Cuzan to retire from the international game. He is just too error prone and way too tentative. Failed to come off the line for an EASY ball in the area instead stays home and England gets the ball at the spot but bothced the play. Sorry to be blunt but he's done at this level.
     
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  22. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    Young Guns going forward. They succeed or fail on their own.
    I really don't get why they assumed Guzan would be able to raise his game (for Atlanta) against PL quality attackers.
     
  23. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    Horvath should've came on at the half. Maybe could've played loose knowing the game was likely lost already and it wasn't his fault. Not sure I'd have wanted to see him start in Wembley though after how he handled that Portugal friendly.
     
  24. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    Really standout performance for Horvath. Shame that he didn't get the cleansheet.

    I think we're set going forward. Steffen/Horvath both fighting for #1 with the likes of a capable Hamid as a #3, Gonzalez working on improving himself as well as JK a few years away from being in the mix. And of course, whoever over the next 3 years makes a name for themselves.

    Hamid does need to head back to Denmark asap. Hopefully by summer. Steffen should be ready to move this winter or next summer for the PL or Bundesliga. I suppose a 2 more seasons and Gonzalez could be ready for Mexico or a mid-tier league in Europe. JK probably should be looking for a 2 Bundesliga club to latch onto. Horvath needing to fight tooth and nail to remain #1 at Brugge.
     
  25. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Great game be Horvath and IMO solidified himself as the #2 and a real shot at the #1. Plenty of depth now too.
     
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