US v Denmark friendly, Jan. 21, 2018, pre/pbp/post

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by lil_one, Dec 18, 2017.

  1. skybolt

    skybolt Member

    Dec 16, 2011
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    This isn't a one play critique. She has great athleticism and speed, but her hesitation allows the defender to catch up and block her cross / shot. I've also made complaints about her positioning on the field. For instance, there were a couple of instances last where she had an easy header into a wide open net if she just ran to the far post (instead of the middle of the goal) to receive the cross. You always want to give yourself as much room as possible to get to the ball instead of letting it sail straight over your head.
     
  2. olelaliga

    olelaliga Member

    Aug 31, 2009
    Sanchez has been poor so far against weak competition in the qualifiers. Not as creative as she looks with UCLA alongside Flemming. Not sure the national team fits her well. Pinto even poorer performance yesterday. Two of their full NT camp kids looking like their development has not been accelerated by the full team exposure. Contrast Howell who looks better than she did with the 17s. I am guessing if they are thinking about another kid forward to follow Pugh its more likely to be Smith at this point.
     
    Namdynamo repped this.
  3. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    The US really pressed hard and high and Denmark could not deal with it. Being a Friendly, and Denmark wanting to actually learn about themselves (unlike how the USA approaches friendlies for the most part), they kept trying to play out of the back. That was why the score was 5-1. However, the USA dominated and looked as good as they have in awhile. The USA played much like the Men's U20 and U17 played in their recent WC campaigns. Although, the line of three midfielders was extremely aggressively high. This is becoming a USA style and I'm glad the women are not being treated any differently.

    Pugh, when called on to link passes in a possession game and beat defenders on the dribble in wide spots from a standstill is not good. Pugh, as part of an intense high press, against a team determined to possess the ball, was amazing. When she can get the ball with space (because she intercepts a CB or GK pass), she is dynamic. She sees nothing but the goal and the defender in front of her though. Her best game in a US shirt.

    Rapinoe seemed drunk or something. She was very high energy in the beginning and was good defensively. However, she tried many many one touch passes and was maybe 1 for 21 with them. She will also attempt floated passes into the center of the pitch that almost always go the other way for a scoring chance. She was sloppy and her dive on the breakaway was comical. One of her worst games. Oh, and her corners were terrible.

    Morgan has really become a great back to goal player. There were times she was bear hugged by a Danish CB (no call, this is WoSo after all), but still cleanly controlled the ball and moved it to a team mate. She was also great in the press and even came back deep defensively and won the ball. Much of the space Rapinoe, Pugh, and O'Hara had was because she is occupying the entire middle of the Danish defense.

    Sullivan was good; especially in the first half. She seems very brittle and she might follow Morgan Brian down the trail of great when healthy, almost never healthy. She looked better on the right in the 4-3-3 than at the end as a single #6 late in the game. She didn't look at all ready to be a lone DM.

    Ertz was again great as the central midfielder in the 4-3-3 and was good at CB later. She continues to score. One of the best players on the team at the moment.

    Horan, Smith, Dahlkemper all were ok and didn't do anything terrible or great. Generally, were not really very noticeable. Smith does not do anything remotely approaching what O'Hara does on the left. But maybe she is the defense first fullback and O'Hara is the offensive fullback.

    O'Hara was again awesome and seems to be the team leader. Morgan wore the armband then gave it to Lloyd, but O'Hara is the one barking at people, telling the kids what they did wrong, telling Rapinoe she was sleep walking. It is not a Friendly to O'Hara.

    I don't know why we are only playing Naeher. The Denmark goal was a header in the 6 yard box that she doesn't even contest. But even if she is the clear #1 to Ellis, other people need to be ready.

    Davidson really passes the ball nicely. O'Hara was able to move up past the first two lines of the Danes and Davidson would thread the ball through on the ground. She mishit one pass all night to O'Hara that led to a turnover and to the corner kick that ended up in the goal for Denmark. John Brooks on the men's side is the only other USA CB that consistently can make line beating passes. Hard to judge her defensively as the USA press was so effective there wasn't much to do. After the switch and 5 subs, towards the end there was more and she won most and lost a few. Held her own overall and Dahlkemper's spot might be in trouble. Or maybe even Brunn's spot (but I don't think Ellis has the cajones).

    The high press 4-3-3 looked great and we will see how it does in the future when team's prepare for it. There really isn't any room for Lloyd or Christine Press in it. Ertz is behind Morgan, and Press isn't going to do that job. I would put Press in for Pugh against teams that will really bunker. Although, she, like Pugh, is better in transition than static and Lavelle could be in that spot. If Morgan got hurt we have to hope Press could fill in there defensively. She doesn't do the hold up play like Morgan, but could maybe play as more of a False 9.
     
  4. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Member

    Jul 18, 2011
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    So is this the end of Carly?
     
  5. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    I think how USSF markets the team and the CBA with the players makes dropping Carli before 2019 very unlikely. WC rosters are so big that you can carry someone who can sub in up front or in the midfield. What we saw last night will be effective, hopefully, against good teams and poor teams. But decent teams that bunker and play counter and punt the ball from the back, like Sweden in the Olympics, won't be bothered by the high press. The game will be the kind no USWNT has been terribly good at and a player like Pugh will not be that useful. Maybe Lloyd would play in that kind of game. But I can't imagine she starts in that 4-3-3. But anything is possible with Ellis.
     
  6. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    So I finally made the time to watch my Tivo of it, which was rather psychedelic due to the snowstorm going on while it recorded. Lots of tracers, lots of freeze frames and some breakup, so I didn't always get much of a view of some things.

    But- thought it was about what you'd write up if you were scripting an opener for the year-- success for Morgan, Ertz, Pugh. A potential third center back found-- the kid looked pretty good to me-- good enough to think she actually won the start in camp rather than Ellis just trying to patch the hole with a newbie. Another possible corner kicker found. A clear win.

    Against that Ertz appears to have the beginnings of a chronic big toe problem-- hope not, because they can drag on so badly as to wind up career altering. O'Hara seemed to get off to a slow start, though she showed flashes of 2017 in the second half. Sullivan's shoulder is a concern, and maybe it is just me but I'm thinking Pinoe's knee maybe troubling her too.

    I don't see any reason to think that Ellis will line us up or play us the way she did against Denmark against everybody else. She seems to me to want to find 3 or 4 players who can, barring injury, play every minute of a world cup schedule and do several different styles while doing so-- and fill out the roster with other international caliber players who can fill out one approach or another and play the number of minutes indicated by each. And she seems to have almost reached that point already. I think that we can expect Dahlkamper and Mewis and O'Hara to play near every minute in 2019, and maybe Pugh too.

    I thought the Danes weren't particularly sharp--jet lag maybe, or some hangover from their recent turbulence. And I didn't think their goalie was all that bad-- nothing that replacing a few soft pounds with hard ones mightn't fix. she just needs to be quicker at getting up when she's down and changing directions after she has started.
     
  7. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Member

    Jul 18, 2011
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Why can't we still call her Johnston?
     
  8. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    Well its fine with me if you want to, but it is apt to confuse people who are used to identifying players by the name on their jerseys:

    [​IMG]


    For myself, I have concluded that there is some reason to go along with whatever the people themselves want to be known by. My sister took back her birth name; but at least one person I know found her father's name very distasteful due to his behavior to her during her childhood, and preferred her husband's name for that reason. And the hyphen seems to me to be reasonable and honorable, though it entails a certain hazard-- it won't take many generations to get amazingly cumbersome. And as a product of the hippie era I've known several folks who simply made up names they liked and have used them so long the jokes have pretty much died away.
     
    jnielsen repped this.
  9. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    I'm hesitant to ascribe any strategic plan to Ellis. She has a lot of talent to work with and it would be hard not to win just about every game, especially when they try to win every game. But I hope you are right and she has a plan.

    My feeling is she comes up a one plan and uses it until forced to change. This time last year it was the 3-5-2 with Allie Long as the CCB. She stuck with that until France crushed her dream. I think the 4-3-3 with the very aggressive high press is the lastest Plan A. I would expect to see it every game of the SheBelieves Cup. If it works we will play it at the World Cup. If it doesn't, she will go back and come up with Plan A again. But lets be optimists and say she is looking for ways to play different opponents and has another plan for a good bunker or a team like Japan that could pass around it. That she has a contingency for a Morgan injury or card suspension, an O'Hara injury, or a Ertz suspension.

    I can't imagine Dahlkemper and Davidson starting the WC and Brunn on the bench; even if warranted. I think Davidson is competing with Dahlkemper and might be ahead of her.
     
    Namdynamo repped this.
  10. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    Neither can I-- I wrote that she might have won the start, singular, not the job. But we've known there was going to have to be another-- I can't see Brunn playing every minute of another cup. Making every start maybe... and I can see that D might be ready to compete for the reserve role, though we're pretty close now for one so young.
     
  11. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    I realize this is a common attitude here, but it just seems ignorant to the point of nonsensical to me. In over 60 years of watching sports at the highest levels I can count on one finger the number of coaches who had no idea what they were doing at all, and you would have to be Joe Schultz to have no plan.

    The 3-5-2 era was an off-cycle, early year thing. We have now enough players experienced enough in it that in a moment of pressing need -- two goals down in a WC game-- we could shift to it with some chance of success; or we might use it in a Pot D group match if we draw somebody that our great wealth of offensive talent can overwhelm without needing much of a defense; and rest some starters without giving up points. There's no convincing reason to think Ellis wanted to play it exclusively, just that this was a good time to play it a lot to get some experience in it, And giving Long a shot at making the transition and being the third CB in 2019. Doesn't seem to me like she made it, and she's not going to France in any other roster slot at her age, unless there are a lot of injuries, or so it seems to me.

    Look, when major league baseball teams have a young guy they want to put in their rotation soon, they make a closer out of him at AA and AAA; the idea being that he will get a disproportionate number of high pressure situations and learn how to pitch out of them before he gets to the show. It doesn't mean they have given up on him as a starter. Allie at CB in a 3-5 seemed to me a somewhat similar strategy. She just didn't altogether learn how to do it is all.

    We have heard great complaining about Abby's inclusion on the world cup team-- but as yet no one has responded to what I have pointed out several times, that when we were struggling in a knockout round game and it was looking like a coin toss if we would survive and advance, Abby came in at the half and scored the game's only goal. Otherwise her World Cup consisted of a couple of late subs to defend corners when smaller, shorter players were looking so gassed that they weren't really enough faster to make up for it.

    That certainly looked like design to me-- Ellis didn't let the things Abby could no longer do distract her from the things she still could, and used her for those things and left her on the shelf the rest of the time-- and Abby did the job she was asked to do very well and did not complain that she didn't get much PT based on the things she was born to do but couldn't anymore. Whether that's the nature of the player, as I think, or that's the deal Ellis made with her before rostering her matters not a whit-- whether she recognized it or arranged it, either is good coaching.

    Anyway, I think the notion that she's a blind pig eternally in search of a truffle is just foolish-- there are things I don't especially like about her style, but so what? Even at my great age and wisdom I don't know everything; it ain't bragging if you can do it, and the preponderance of the evidence so far is that Ellis can. She did.
     
    crog1967, lil_one and Gilmoy repped this.
  12. kernel_thai

    kernel_thai Member+

    Oct 24, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    My questions:
    1 - If Ellis has decided the press is her offense is her defense good enough to cover against a team who can break it and get opportunities with numbers at the other end?
    2 - If this is the group she likes as stated then what does she do when players like Mewis, Heath, Lavelle, Sauerbrunn & Brian return from injury?
    3 - Has Pugh turned the corner?
     
  13. Crazyhorse

    Crazyhorse Member

    Dec 29, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What does the future look like for Casey Short?
     
  14. kernel_thai

    kernel_thai Member+

    Oct 24, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Fullback seems to be turning into flavor of the month. First feisty Klingenberg got the job cause she could get forward. Then Ellis loved Short so much she had her playing two positions. Now Ellis who has gone to great length to prove O'Hara can't play left back has her playing left back and Smith is the flavor of the month. A while Smith has top end speed and some really good attacking skills Im not crazy about her as a passer or a defender. That means Huerta still has a shot to add her size and passing ability to the attack or maybe Short reemerges and we learn O'Hara can't play on the left after all.
     
  15. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    ??? O'Hara's been our best left back for quite a while. What games are you watching anyway???
     
  16. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think this is likely the rationale, especially because we saw the 3-back again after it was scrapped. It was used again at the ToN against Brazil when we were down. They switched back to the regular 4-back as soon as they retook the lead. Its always good to have multiple formations in the back pocket, formations and systems that you have practiced before in matches, not just practices.
     
    jnielsen repped this.
  17. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    She was playing right back until just the last few games. Although before that she was starting on the right and switching to the left. She can probably play anywhere. She is good with Rapinoe; when Rapinoe isn't letting the ball come off her foot in completely random directions.
     
  18. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    The team was well drilled on Sunday; Ellis gets credit for that. If a national team coach's job is picking a roster and getting that team to play with cohesion, she certainly passes both tests at the moment. Part of picking a roster is making sure you have depth and tactical flexibility. The USWNT coach is always hamstrung a bit in who she/he can call to any particular camp. If you see her building that tactical flexibility, ok. I hope you are right. I have plenty to vent my cynicism on with the Men and Federation leadership haha.

    The thing that has really changed is Ertz, specifically, Ertz as the #6. She was a CB, then benched, then Ellis put her there. I don't recall whether she had been moved there for Chicago last year prior to playing there with the USWNT. I believe she played all over for them, from forward to defender and all spots in between. But Ellis put her there in the second half of a friendly and everything has worked from then on. Whether she thought to do it or stumbled on it or whatever, she did it and stuck with it. Just like moving Brian there in the WC.
     
  19. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    Seems to me the only thing she's really married to tactically is the use of the outside backs all the way up when on offense, and if that means they get "burned" a couple of times a game, so be it.

    The idea seems to be that the weakside back should always be ready to come back quickly and make the backline functionally a 3 with the strongside CB sliding to cover for the burned one-- like a hockey team killing a penalty. So the two CBs slide toward the threat and the weakside back slides back into the emptied lane, and the "burned" strongside back and the holding mid clog the slot in front of the goal to keep the other team from switching sides quickly enough to leave the goalie stranded.

    She also seems to like to debut everybody-- not just Ertz-- with a greater defensive responsibility than they will maybe wind up with. A tendency, in other words, to move people up once she is convinced they have learned as much defense as they are going to-- we've seen that with most everybody but O'Hara-- even to some extent Morgan and Press. Even Mewis' instructions seem to have changed over the months from "stay at home" to "feel free to take advantage of any opportunities you see."

    I believe Ertz came to the Nats having played all over at least since the beginning of college, but maybe somebody farther west can fill that in?
     
    Patrick167 repped this.
  20. Smallchief

    Smallchief Member+

    Oct 27, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Seemed to me that about half the time Johnson was a third center back, playing deeper than and in between Dahkemper and Davidson. Thus, when the US was pressing the formation looked more to me like a 3-4-3 than a 4-3-3 with both fullbacks up in the midfield.

    It worked well against Denmark -- who, frankly, ran like they had lead in their shoes. Will it work against the speedy French and Brazilians? If I were them, I'd be practicing counters with my fastest players.

    In response to somebody about Casey Short, yeah, I think also she's in a bit of trouble. O'Hara is doing fine at left back and Ellis is enamored of Taylor at right back.
     
  21. kernel_thai

    kernel_thai Member+

    Oct 24, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Ertz was moved to midfield by Dames long before it happened on the NT. When Ellis finally pulled trigger against Brazil is was less tactical than dictated by the tight schedule in the tournament. Mewis, Long & Horan had started the first match in midfield while Lloyd, Mewis and Sauerbrunn started the second. Brian was on short duty due to injury which kind of left her with Ertz. Hardly inspired coaching. If Ellis had started Ertz instead of moving Sauerbrunn from her natural position, Id give her some credit.
     
  22. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    But why would we think they will play the same way against France or Brazil as they did against Denmark? And France and Brazil have had a lot of turnover and from what I've seen aren't as speedy as they used to be. Particularly Brazil.
     
  23. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    No you wouldn't. :giggle:

    You've created a voodoo doll of Ellis-- any one who gets the job, really-- and your every post is another pin stuck in it. Only thing is, the doll doesn't resemble anyone enough to work. :p
     
  24. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    I actually saw it differently with the 3-3 of the 4-3-3 actually up pressing very high in two lines of 3. That is pretty aggressive and it worked. When starting possession, Ertz would drop in between the CBs. While that is a common tactic, I'm not sure it is necessary as Davidson is a better passer than Ertz. But, good to have it as Brunn is not a great passer. Dahlkemper is suppose to be, but I haven't really seen it. Of course, she is working with Smith on that side, which makes things tougher.
     
  25. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Possession and distribution starting deep is a part of Ellis' system that has not changed with formation. Back in 2015, Holiday would drop deep, often deeper than the CB's to start possession. In the 3-back, Ellis was asking Long to do the same thing. Now Ertz does it as the #6. You would have seen the same when Barca played with 4-3-3 with Busquets as the #6. Whoever is supposed to be that "quarterback" drops deep to both see the field and spray the ball. Its one of those things that's consistent.
     
    taosjohn repped this.

Share This Page