All-time XIs by country

It's hard to be certain obviously, but I'd think Gyorgy Sarosi could take the place of Zakarias, or perhaps Lorant (given there's not necessarily room for him in the attack!). Maybe Matrai, from the 1960s team, for Lorant or something in an option. And Bene might be better than Budai, while Albert or Kubala could be options to slot into Budai's place alternatively....even both of them with Czibor missing out if outright wingers were discarded (although Czibor did move around the pitch himself anyway). I favour keeping Hidegkuti, and I think it's hard to break up Puskas's partnership with Kocsis too, while Bozsik seems a certainty also.

I guess the temptation re: just keeping the 1950s team is familiarity and knowing it was a great team in reality, while at least not being far off a decent call from 1-11 individually too probably.

 

This was the team chosen by the Hungarian Football Federation in 2013:

-----------Grosics----------
Rudas - Meszoly - Biro
-------Boszik - Orth-------
Sandor - Albert - Czibor
------Kocsis - Puskas----

Their Second Team:

--------------Platko----------
Matrai - Lorant - Laszlo Sarosi
------Nagymarosi - Lazar-------
Fazekas - Hidegkuti- Kohut
-------Kubala - Schlosser-------

Gyorgy Sarosi was in the third team as he was only considered as a centre-forward.

 

Looking through some Polish sources, there seems to be a reasonable amount of agreement on an all-time Polish team.

Around ten years ago onet.pl.sport published their Top 100 Polish footballers. The following team can be drawn from it:

---------------Tomaszewski---------------------
Szymanowski - Zmuda - Oslizlo - Anczok
Lato-----Deyna-----Kasperczak-----Boniek
----------Lubanski - Wilimowski--------------

Before that, a positional ranking by 1970s national team manager Kazimierz Gorski had produced a similar team. There were only two changes, his own players Gorgon and Gadocha replacing Oslizlo and Boniek.

Last year Pilka Nozna magazine produced their own rankings by position covering the period 1956-2016. Their composite team showed three changes from Gorski's. Mlynarczyk was in goal. The ineligible Wilimowski (too old) was replaced by the newly eligible Lewandowski. And Boniek came in for Kasperczak. This gave an unrealistic 4-2-4 with six attacking players. Substituting the highest-ranked DM, Kasperczak, for the second ranked winger Gadocha produces a proper formation.

A further source, mentioned earlier by PDG, is the UEFA Jubilee Award. In September 2003 the newspaper Gazeta Wyborcza conducted a poll on behalf of the Polish FA to identify the leading Polish footballers to that time. Lubanski came first. Gorgon was leading centre-back, and goalie Tomaszewski finished four places ahead of his rival Mlynarczyk. In seventh place, Kasperczak received over ten times as many votes as Gadocha, which appears to justify the proposed substitution in the Pilka Nozna team. Wilimowski came 15th.

Lewandowski only arrived in time for the Pilka Nozna selection. But the magazine ranks him ahead of Lubanski. And both onet.pl.sport and Gazeta Wyborcza show Lubanski above Wilimowski.

So a consensus team so far looks like this:

---------------Tomaszewski-----------------------
Szymanowski - Zmuda - Gorgon - Anczok
Lato------Deyna-----Kasperczak-----Boniek
----------Lewandowski - Lubanski-------------

 

I agree with what PDG said about Musial (as a LB).
Yes soembody had posted all of this on xt with links. That was very long lists of names by position. The order was debatable still ofc but it was very rich.
Kasperczak was very good but there has been other midfielders of quality after him.
I agree with the Polish posters who select Picszek too. Szymanowski was a libero in club, did well at RB in '74. Mainly due to his ardour, may we say. In '77, he get injured.

 

Hard to disagree with this lineup, except that 7, 9 if you count Anczok and Lubanski, are from Gorski's team. It's almost as if Poland didn't produce great players outside of the 73-74 generation.

 

Using this source of Hungarian football historians/experts, and the same formation/protocol in terms of allocating positions, I suppose Matrai, Hidegkuti and I think Lantos come in for Rudas, Albert and Biro. Maybe Bene (he did play there in the World Cup, but not necessarily his main position - but neither was it Fazekas's was it unless I have brian fade?!) for Sandor, who nevertheless isn't far behind anyway.

Using creative licence arguably Albert and Kubala wide as I suggested before (or Hidegkuti wide rather than Albert if preferred based on having played there for the NT). And then Sarosi perhaps for Meszoly or Matrai, or even Lantos who has less points, or if in actual fact it would suit regarding making a more realistic line-up (not 100% sure, but maybe for the teams posted by Peter it's just that Orth is considered midfielder and Sarosi attacker, while Sarosi's versatility could actually put him in the line-up although how do we then assess his points total in relation to different roles played anyway...?) perhaps for Orth instead although he had less points than him.

https://nepszava.hu/cikk/271742-puskas-a-fourfourtwo-magazin-elen?print=1
http://www.fourfourtwo.hu/hirek/magyarorszag/puskas-ferenc-a-legnagyobb

 

That's difficult to refute. Bedoya's choice seems me narrowly the best just only about the public considerations of his own time, but it's clear that Duarte is the most popular option being more recent and having been part of the best-known generation in the history of Peru. Benítez doesn't convince me there just only because it's not his familiar role and I'd like to be precise about that, but it's also clear that he was the most prominent player among the 3 and his conditions allowed him to adapt to that role.

Another option could have been Nolberto Solano's adaptation as right-back, which he was familiar with.

 

Perhaps both Albert and Hidegkuti (one of them alongside Puskas), rather than Kocsis, is one feasible interpretation re: that FourFourTwo vote and the all-time XI the panel's choices would provide too.

 

Yes, that Polish side of the 1970s was a very good one but it does appear to be over-represented. You will know better than me but apparently Mlynarczyk is rated higher than Tomaszewski by some.

Older players appear to be under-represented. Wilimowski is a strong candidate of course. Presumably Cieslik too, given his lead in the 1969 poll. Could either of these challenge Lubanski?

 

I think I lean towards this (ok, Zamora is old so hard to judge....but at least on 'legend' he can be in I think):

Zamora
Salgado, Hierro, Pique, Gordillo
Busquets
Xavi, Iniesta
Suarez
Butragueno, Raul

I think young version Suarez can play very well in a diamond like that potentially. Individually I'd favour Xabi Alonso or Guardiola over Busquets but maybe not for the system/style if making an XI as if they line up in reality probably.

 

I suppose looking completely from the other direction (almost ignoring the numbers) my bias for Butragueno over Zarra is enhanced by just being able to call up his best goals/skills/assists/near misses etc etc on Youtube whers for Zarra we can't do that. Whether Zarra would seem much less skilful or much less effective in a modern context even, I'm not sure, but my nagging feling might be he might do and I don't know otherwise if you know what I mean. Can it apply to goalies too and could Zamora seem inferior to even a Zubizarreta on balance? Maybe but I went with him anyway!

 

I see what you mean - I think overall I actually see that less than some do (hence I genuinely consider some of the old legends potentially good enough on merit - certainly I'd fill the Hungarian team with them for example I'm sure...on any basis) but the board has been there way too many times already and it's always divisive to be honest (not that you are being in any way and like I say I do see what you mean and maybe your combination of perceiving a bigger inherent gap in favour of recent players, but picking the older ones based on how they stood out, could be more 'typical' than mine of perceiving the smaller gap at least in a decent amount of cases...or a gap the other way in favour of older legends in particular cases although yes it's hard to be sure I guess in different contexts and with more limited footage....but preferring to pick the 'better' players in my view, or to my knowledge, which might restrict the old legend quota from that angle maybe!).

 

Actually here is an example lol! I think Coluna might have been better than Maniche! But I guess I recommend you consider him more on your basis (same one you picked Zarra on - not the goals so much of course but reputation/level in own time and 'legend').

 

Thanks - this is another good Hungarian source.

To their credit the Hungarian federation picked players in their favoured position. But only having three defenders looks unrealistic. Lorant, or another central defender, should come in to make a back four at the expense of right winger Sandor, who does not look like an all-time first team candidate.

At right back Rudas v Matrai could go either way. Similarly the combined sources suggest there is little to choose between Albert and Hidegkuti at centre-forward. They beat Sarosi in both cases.

Based on the Hungarian FourFourTwo votes, the versatile Sarosi might still replace Czibor, though dropping both wingers would mean a lack of width. Personally I would not place Sarosi in defence. He did play there, but it cannot have been often given his 500 official goals.

Although Kalman Konrad was one of nine Hungarians named in World Soccer's Top 100 footballers of the twentieth century, he does not make this Hungarian Top 50 and is only ranked tenth best inside-right by the federation. Albert and Orth did not make the World Soccer list either. Czibor and Sarosi were included.

Covering the same period, IFFHS's Top 100 Europeans included seven Hungarians. They all appear in the Hungarian FourFourTwo's first nine, the IFFHS absentees being Orth and Kubala. Orth is much more highly regarded in Hungary than elsewhere. MTK coach Jimmy Hogan said he was the best footballer he ever saw. Given how little time he spent there, one might expect the opposite to apply to Kubala.

 

NIce summary,

I suppose their 'Golden' formation is just tempting in this case (to them too) as it was so iconic with the 1950s team, deep-lying centre-forward included. Some people even call that formation 4-2-4 (still attacking) or 4-1-3-2 perhaps, thinking of Zakarias as supplementary defender (a la Bobby Moore I suppose positionally if not stylistically as Moore actually contributed more to the build-up and probably got forwards more still although being more clearly part of a defence I think actually; which was why I wondered whether actually Sarosi would fit that remit better than Orth in a real team).

Various refernces to Sarosi being 'the best defender and best attacker in one' and suchlike can be found on the internet, from opponents of the time for example (think I posted some before). I'm not sure exactly how many games (and part games) he did play in defence though. @wm442433 saw him as a great defender and great attacker I remember when he posted his profiles of 100 great players (which mainly contained attacking and midfield players, but he definitely noted Sarosi's ability to be great at both ends).

Anyway, in Sarosi's case I certainly can't verify enough his case as attacker let alone defender (or midfielder), using my own eyes to view footage (there are a few clips of goals he scores and suchlike of course). And the Hungarian federation didn't consider him for a defensive slot anyway as you say.

 

^

In order to see that clearly, the formations provided by eu-football.info are perfect. There is also that Hungarian site which @Gregoriak had posted the link somewhere in here but I can't remember where. But the link can be easily found on his blog/site (...under the section 'links'). After what it can be a bit of a hell on the Hungarian site but once we have spotted the different sections, it's ok. I never thought about it before but the page can be translated surely.

 

Could you put Deco in the Maniche role? Or is he too offensive?

 

I agree, those four are the candidates for the RB role.

As a pure RB, Bedoya had the better skills, but he performed at high level for only 3-4 years (in the first half of 50s), mainly in peruvian league (one of his strongest eras) and in El Dorado, not so sure in the NT.

Duarte, had a consistent career at club and NT level (the longest of the four in that role), his peak was in the early 80s. He was called in some American and Rest of the World XI those years. There isn't an official SA team of the year, but he had a chance a couple of years.

Benítez, played sometimes as RB at Boca (Mid/Back mostly). He's the better player of the bunch and his skills could let him perform well in that role in a "dream team".

Solano is the 2nd best of the group, and he was good when playing Right Back in the 90s at club and NT level.