The best games of the best players

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by comme, Sep 19, 2017.

  1. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Yes, like I said by PM there have been some Shevchenko compilations with actually more individual highlights from that Arsenal game, but taken down now. And I'm sure I saw some nice dribbling on the right side of the box vs Newcastle but maybe it was even in the away game as it isn't on that one (just a bit of a run down the outside and lay-off to pre-assist the Rebrov goal). He does score a wrongly disallowed goal vs Arsenal, but I suppose end product wise the case might be harder re: calling it his best ever game anyway, although I think an example of when he was definitely at his best and most fluent for skills/dribbling indeed.

    I wouldn't be surprised if his best ever game was in a Dynamo Kiev shirt, but provisionally I might go with the Lazio game from 99/00 (video on Youtube for him) if I was making a call or single suggestion today.
     
    PuckVanHeel repped this.
  2. Afghan-Juventus

    Afghan-Juventus Member+

    Oct 14, 2012
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Afghanistan
    One of the craziest single match highlights I have ever seen. Will have to watch the full match one of these days.
     
    babaorum and PuckVanHeel repped this.
  3. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Falcao is imho the game against Argentina in 1982. Complete domination of midfield by him and creating a few chances.

    At club level I have some vague memories; not equally great in every match. There is one against Napoli in 1983, where also Krol is playing well (one of the few for Napoli that are available).

    Maybe that Falcao was also great against Cologne in 1982.
     
    comme repped this.
  4. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Sorry, at hindsight I think it is the 1982 friendly against New York Cosmos where Krol is standing out a bit.

    Here is Falcao against Juventus in 1983, which was probably his peak year in fame and recognition.

     
    peterhrt and comme repped this.
  5. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    Some of you might be familiar with Lukas Tank and his site https://footballarguments.wordpress.com/. He has watched a lot of classic matches over the last couple of years and I asked him for some of the performances that particularly caught his eye. He mentioned there were others as well that he hadn't noted down.

    Hidegkuti v England 1953
    Bozsik v England 1953
    Fritz Walter v Hungary 1954
    Di Stefano v Eintracht Frankfurt 1960
    Puskas v Eintracht Frankfurt 1960
    Puskas v Benfica 1962
    Pele v Mexico 1962
    Luis Suarez v USSR 1964
    Eusebio v Brazil 1966
    Yashin v West Germany 1966
    Bobby Charlton v Portugal 1966
    Rivera v Feyenoord 1969
    Moore v Brazil 1970
    Muller v USSR 1972 (friendly)
    Beckenbauer v USSR 1972 (EC Final)
    Netzer v USSR 1972 (EC Final)
    Cruyff v Independiente 1972
    Passarella v France 1978
    Ardiles v Poland 1978
    Maradona v River Plate (away) 1981
    Zico v Argentina 1982
    Falcao v Argentina 1982
    Souness v Roma 1984
    Platini v Portugal 1984
    Maradona v Belgium 1986
    Van Basten v West Germany 1988
    Maradona v Milan 1988
    Kohler v Milan 1991
    Maldini v Juventus 1991
    Baresi v Juventus 1991 (same game as the above two)
    Guardiola v Sao Paulo 1992
    Gullit v Fiorentina 1992
    Baresi v Brazil 1994
    Maldini v Brazil 1994
    Bergkamp v Argentina 1998
    Nesta v Netherlands 2000
    Cannavaro v Netherlands 2000
    Zidane v Portugal 2000
    Zidane v Brazil 2006
    Xavi v Real Madrid 2010
    Neuer v Algeria 2014
    Messi v Real Madrid 2017
    Modric & Busquets (2016-17 first Clasico)
     
  6. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    I will pick out a few where I'm more comfortable on.

    My personal preference goes to Bulgaria 1966. Quality of opponent is comparable, it was a worse Brazil team and Pelé makes noticeably fewer (unforced) errors. Also I think he caused more danger overall.

    Maybe it's also down to the quality of the video. The 1966 game is very crisp and clear to see.

    This is interesting. It was not my own impression. He wasn't fit anyway, after the events of the first leg.

    (maybe I can show some things of his various stages in his career)

    Tend to agree yes. PDG1978 mentioned the England match but in involvement and 'playmaking' this was better.

    I have watched pretty much every available Napoli match, and for me the best is 5 October 1986 against a good Torino side (4th in 1986 and then 7th in the league). leadleader had the same impression, that this was him at his very best. His physical best and most creative.

    AC Milan 1988 is a significant match, but Milan was missing Gullit, Donadoni, Ancelotti. To cope with this they played with an unusual five men defense (Tassotti and Maldini as wing-backs; Mussi, young Costacurta, Baresi as defenders; central midfield with wing player Evani, Colombo and Rijkaard). I have reservations, also knowing Sacchi's later career and how he drilled his teams. They were in poor form prior to the game. Napoli had very arguably the deeper squad in fact.

    At European level his best game for Napoli was in 1989 against Werder Bremen (not the 5-1 away match, but at home).

    ..... speaking of this. Among his best are the 1987-88 games against Napoli. Hopefully these games return again on Youtube or so. This while Milan was missing key players, and Napoli wanted to win dearly after having been knocked out in Europe early.
     
    comme repped this.
  7. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I do also agree re: the West Germany match for Van Basten (also scored it over 9 IIRC), in terms of including it as a major 'best' game in a collection of them. Hard to make such a collection perhaps - eg would the Lazio performance in 92/93 make it as a borderline case or is it just a fairly typical game for him (obviously the end product is boosted by penalty goals but he did win them, and his link up play was very nice at times and his touch under pressure very sure) - that's on Youtube as a joint video for Gullit too. Maybe I just about give the England match the edge, and I think other sources did moreso even IIRC, but when reviewing Puck's video for the West Germany game I pretty much had it at a similar level for slightly different reasons (general gameplay particularly although he was the match winner in effect again certainly too).

    Another one that is a case of is it among his best or a fairly typical one (or both) might be Ardiles vs Forest in 79/80 (the game in which Hoddle scores the spectacular volley). Can't work out how to share the highlights on Dailymotion after changes to their site atm, but it's 30 minutes worth ish and gives a good idea although maybe not enough to include for sure anyway.
     
  8. Gregoriak

    Gregoriak BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 27, 2002
    Munich
    A 2-3 home defeat to Werder Bremen Maradona's best outing in Europe? Just curious.
     
  9. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #84 PuckVanHeel, Sep 28, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2017
    Yes I would say so (for Napoli). Individually he had an assist in the match (not involved in the 2nd Napoli goal) and he might have had a few more assists or pre-assists type of things too. In contrast to some major games in the 1988-89 campaign (Careca his 6 non-penalty goals as tangible substance), he wasn't greatly helped by his team mates in this game I would say. He was sharp and wasn't doing unnecessary showboating stuff or shimmies in midfield like he arguably did too much in the Toulouse match for example.

    Here are highlights, but the full match is also in perfect quality on youtube.


    Rehhagel's Werder Bremen maybe conceded more goals in the league than one would expect with his status, 32 goals and 41 goals, but they were a properly organized team and 13th in the ClubElo rankings (on merely 100 points from number one). In the 1989 match against Napoli all their players were available and they played with their best XI. It is very well possible that they had a higher level of organization than a national team could reach.

    In terms of alternatives for this match: assists and (non-)penalty goals don't tell the full story but they provide a hint at times. One can make an argument this matters for him (his explosiveness, low work rate, free role), others think it doesn't matter much. If one follows wm442433 recent assessment (2nd section of the Zico article where the #10s are compared) it will matter a little bit.

    At any rate, his first non-penalty goals for Napoli in Europe arrived september 1990 against Ujpest. And of the penalty goals, one was drawn by himself (in the 1989 final against Stuttgart, after he made initially a handball but OK).

    His first assists arrived in the 1988-89 season. He had 9 in this successful campaign, although 6 arrived from a set piece situation and 1 other was a (significantly) deflected assist.

    This might look as harsh and nitpicking, but I'm showing/thinking through the alternatives. Production-wise a separation can be made. Against Werder Bremen he had an open play assist (his first assist in Europe in 1989-90) and could have had several more. Personally, I think his 'best' or 'most significant' game tends to be one where he was productive, and this is true for all the strikers, forwards and 'semi-forwards'.

    Opponents of a (very roughly) similar level in these years were Real Madrid (conceded 37 in the league), Juventus (in their down years but still somewhat comparable), Bayern Munich and Stuttgart. Maybe Sporting Lisbon to some degree (0-0 and 0-0, Maradona missed his penalty just as against Toulouse), or the famed Spartak Moscow match which can't be a reasonable pick.


    I think in none of these alternative ties he was as (physically) sharp, clear-minded or effective, and in some of those a team mate stole the limelight and/or was creative (Careca against Juventus in 1989, as example). In my observation that was not the case against Werder Bremen. Maybe it is deceptive and therefore not relevant because he and Alemao missed the first four/five games in the 1989-90 season, after which they were nevertheless first in the championship table (as only team).

    So, tentatively weighing all of this I arrived at the Werder Bremen game.
     
    Gregoriak repped this.
  10. Gregoriak

    Gregoriak BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 27, 2002
    Munich
    Excellent reasoning.
     
  11. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #86 PuckVanHeel, Sep 28, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2017
    For him you have mentioned these games as well as some WC1974 games (Bulgaria, Sweden, Argentina, Brazil), and the 1977 England game that you liked (that comp on YouTube misses some crucial scenes as you had spotted before). What are the foremost club games that you liked? I will think about this by myself, also considering level of opposition.

    By the way here on 2:05 a Newcastle-esque turn (it is my own video, but someone else pointed it out - this is also how I encountered that graph I posted in the 'best footballers' thread). Certainly indicative is what he showed at the very end of his career, aged 36 and 37, against teams as Standard Liege, Liverpool, Tottenham (last European goal), Manchester United, AS Roma (the opponents that have been preserved). Against more varying opposition also this can be noted (veterans, semi-amateurs and players in their prime as Francis, Souness, Beardsley, Hugo Sanchez, Krol, Romero, Grobbelaar etc. played there).

    You can't copy the site link or video link?

    Re: Rivelino. I think he was good against England in 1978 (or 1977?) he was also good in the full match against Santos in 1972.

    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x309cuy
     
  12. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011

    Indeed interesting view.

    Some of Maradona's best displays in Europe were at Barcelona, particularly vs Red Star Belgrade (away) and vs Magdeburg away. But they are not completely available on video.

    His highest rated game vs AC Milan was probably in 1989 at home in a 3-0 win. But there was no Gullit, Donadoni and Van Basten. However the backline was pretty much intact, with Baresi, Costacurta, Tassotti, Rijkaard and Ancelloti; only missing Maldini.





    Some observations:

    Zico against Argentina goes no more than 7 as a high mark for El Gráfico. He didn't get much touches but had a hand in all goals. Falcao was rated as the best in several sources.

    Zico's best game in a major championship was against New Zealand with a grade of 9 in El Gráfico.

    Maradona away vs River Plate in a 2-2 draw doesn't go higher than a 7 for El Gráfico. He was better at home that year in a 3-0 win, voted with the best goal of the season and with a hand in all goals.

    Neuer vs Algeria 2014: I was at that game and didn't see Algeria really testing him. Most of their breakthroughs were intercepted or they were off target. He was swift off the line but never needed to make any difficult save between the posts.

    Bergkamp vs Argentina 1998: he's got the match winner but he's not had many touches in the game.

    For Cruijff, most of his absolute best displays are not available on video. At the WC the closest was against Sweden, Argentina and I think Brazil, with grades of a 9 by El Gráfico.
     
    PuckVanHeel repped this.
  13. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I think you made a good call with the Feyenoord game at Barcelona, but I suppose we can't even be sure it was his best game vs Feyenoord (did he play better as early as 66/67? - If he was playing as his great assist indicates maybe so!). For club level games I could get a full idea about I think that one might be my top choice - talking of great assists the outside of the boot cross/pass to Rexach was really outstanding in that game of course, but in general he was playing very well I think as your video helped to show.

    He was probably good enough as a verteran player that some of his 1980s Ajax and/or Feyenoord games could be in the mix though even I guess. One game for Feyenoord vs Ajax might be a reasonable choice/inclusion probably would you think (the big win with the blind reverse pass etc).

    As Vegan hints at I think, your thread might give good examples where we have the newspaper rating as high approval, but not full highlights (although we can see all his touches vs Real Madrid away in 73/74 can't we....but not the Phantom Goal game with Atletico for example although I forget right now how that performance was rated overall according to Vegan's sources).

    I'll have to look into the Ardiles video link issue. I had made it private of course, and when I copied the available link (rather than URL) the preview was not showing a video anyway. IN the old system there used to be a place to share the private link I remember and I shared that video with you as you wanted to see it when I mentioned it. I think the link I gave you is probably lost in a long PM though (and might not work now anyway?)!
     
    PuckVanHeel repped this.
  14. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Good comments mate;

    He had also a well-crafted assist for the first goal; from the side camera one can see how difficult it was to get the ball there. I saw a (Brazilian?) comment below a "passing" compilation video noticed it as well.
    "That pass to Patrick Kluivert... how on earth did Dennis Bergkamp calculate it given that Patrick was so far and had to anticipate two defenders? I watch it over and over and still find it hard to understand. Was it art? Was it science?"

    Furthermore, this goal broke the all-time scoring record that stood for four decades.

    But I agree that this wasn't him at his physical and technical best, with the most involvement. He entered the tournament slightly injured. Maybe it was his 'intelligence' that caught blog poster his eye? It's true that even way below his best, he invariably demonstrated his (selfless) intelligence.

    I'm actually struggling a bit to pick out a match for him. Production-wise, these stand out for the national team (considering level of opposition; whether elimination was at stake; quality of goals):


    1 goal vs Germany 1992 [euro 1992]
    1 goal vs Denmark 1992 [euro 1992 semi final]
    2 goals vs Italy 1992 [friendly; Maldini, Costacurta etc.]
    1 goal vs England 1993 [WC qualifiers]
    1 goals vs England 1993 [WC qualifiers]
    1 goal vs Brazil 1994 [World Cup quarter final, nice goal]
    1 assist vs England 1996 [Euro 1996, elimination at stake, great assist]
    2 assists vs Brazil 1996 [friendly; won penalty after great control + assist after dribble]
    1 goal vs France 1997 [friendly; great dribbling goal vs Blanc, Desailly etc.]
    1 assist vs Mexico 1998 [World Cup; one of his best assists at tournament, Elo #12]
    1 goal vs Yugoslavia 1998 [World Cup, rnd16]
    1 goal + 1 assist vs Argentina 1998 [World Cup quarter finals]
    1 goal vs Brazil 1999 [friendly]
    1 assist vs France 2000 [euro 2000; excellent volleyed assist vs Desailly, Lebouef]


    It is difficult. Also in my mind over time the moments have become conflated with whether it was overall an involved performance. He's remembered for the moments (maybe even the 'wrong' moments, to some extent). Over time that influences us all.
     
  15. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #90 PuckVanHeel, Sep 29, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2017
    Yes, his best continental game (not for Napoli, but in general) was against Red Star Belgrade I think. This also caught the attention of a few European publications and newspapers.

    Here the highlights



    Can you upload the Magdeburg footage perhaps?
     
  16. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Probably very unlikely to actually be their top 10s, but using a mix of those games/performances viewable in full and those not, I might think these are a reasonable offering of 10 each for Pele, Cruyff and Maradona....

    Pele - France (1958 WC), Sweden (1958 WC), Bahia (1961 Cup Final), Benfica (1962 Intercontinental Cup), Mexico (1962 WC), Boca Juniors (1963 (a) - CL Final), England (1964), Bulgaria (1966 WC), Venezuela (1969 (a) - WC qualifying), Czechoslovakia (1970 WC)

    Cruyff - CSKA Sofia (a - 72/73 EC), Real Madrid (a - 73/74), Atletico Madrid (h - 73/74), Sweden (1974 WC), Bulgaria (1974 WC), Argentina (1974 WC), Italy (1974 (h) - Euros Qualifying), Feyenoord (74/75 EC (h)), Poland (1975 (h) - Euros Qualifying), Belgium (1976 (a) - Euros Qualifying)

    Maradona - Boca Juniors (h - 1980), England (a - 1980), Red Star Belgrade (a - 82/83), Lazio (h - 84/85), South Korea (1986 WC), Bulgaria (1986 WC), England (1986 WC), Belgium (1986 WC), Torino (h - 86/87), Roma (a - 87/88)
     
  17. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    So I've spent quite a bit of time on the Football Ratings site and tried to pick out some of the highest ratings on there. These are generally either the highest ones or ones I thought notable (particularly from the older games). I may well have missed a few as there are so many on there:

    1986 – Belanov (8.25) – Hungary 6-0

    1986 – Maradona (6.8) – Italy 1-1

    1986 – Preben Elkjaer (8.7) and Michael Laudrup (8.7) – Uruguay 6-1

    1986 – Maradona (8.6) – England 2-1

    1986 – Maradona (9.25) – Belgium 2-0

    1988 – Tassotti (7.5), Evani (7.5), Gullit (7.5) – Napoli 4-1

    1988 – Stojkovic (7.75) – Milan 1-1

    1988 – Van Basten (8.4) – England 3-1

    1988 – Dasaev (8.2) – Netherlands 1-0

    1988 – Mikhailichenko (7.5) – England 7.5

    1988 – Michel (7.8) – Denmark 3-2

    1988 – Zavarov (7.7) – Italy 2-0

    1988 – R Koeman (7.5) and Van Basten (7.5) – West Germany 2-1

    1989 – Baresi (7.5), Ancelotti (7.5) – Real Madrid 1-1

    1989 – Baresi (7.25) – Brazil 0-1

    1990 – Koeman (7.9), Stoichkov (7.6), Pagliuca (7.5) – Barcelona – Sampdoria 1-0

    1990 – Milla (7.5) – Colombia 2-1

    1990 – Stojkovic (7.5) – Spain 2-1

    1990 – Goycochea (7.3) and Caniggia (7.1) – Italy 1-1

    1990 – Brehme (7.2) – Argentina 1-0

    1991 – Casiraghi (7.1) – Napoli 1-0

    1991 – Stoichkov (7.5), Laudrup (7.25) – Juventus 3-1

    1992 – Vialli (7.67) – Red Star Belgrade 3-1

    1992 – Gullit (8), Van Basten (7.5) – Fiorentina 7-3

    1993 – Asprilla (7) – Milan 1-0

    1993 – Roberto Baggio (7.7) – Borussia Dortmund 3-1

    1994 – Donadoni (7), Massaro (7) – Inter 2-1

    1994 – Baresi (7) and Donadoni (7) – Inter 2-1

    1994 – Romario (7.5) – Russia 2-0

    1994 – Bebeto (7.4) – Netherlands 3-2

    1994 – Romario (7.3) – Sweden 1-0

    1994 – Brolin (7.2) and Raducioiu (7.2) – Sweden – Romania 2-2

    1994 – Chilavert (7.17) – Milan 2-0

    1995 – Massaro (7.5) – Arsenal 2-0

    1995 – Aldair (7.25), Carbone (7.25), Totti (7.25) – Brondby 3-1

    1997 – Mancini (8.3) – Udinese 5-4

    1997 – Pagliuca (8), Peruzzi (7.75) – Inter – Juventus 0-0

    1997 – Jugovic (7.75) – Milan 6-1

    1997 – Pagliuca (7.75) – Schalke 1-0

    1997 – Ince (6.75) – Italy 0-0

    1998 – Marchegiani (7.5) – Atletico Madrid 1-0

    1998 – Michael Laudrup (8.2) and Brian Laudrup (7.8) – Nigeria 4-1

    1998 – Ince (7.8) and Veron (7.8) – England – Argentina 2-2

    1998 – Cannavaro (8.1) – France 0-0

    1998 – Taffarel (7.5), Ronaldo (7.4), Kluivert (7.2), Davids (7.1) – Brazil – Netherlands 1-1

    1998 – Zidane (9), Thuram (8) – Brazil 3-0

    1999 – Totti (8) – Atletico Madrid 1-2

    1999 – Figo (7.5) – Fiorentina 4-2

    2000 – Claudio Lopez (7.5) – Fiorentina 2-0

    2000 – Redondo (7.5) and Anelka (7.5) – Bayern Munich 1-2

    2001 – Helguera (7), Figo (7) – Lazio 3-2

    2002 – Puyol (7) – Roma 1-1

    2002 – Montella (7.5) – Barcelona 3-0

    2002 – Montella (9.2), Totti (8.3) – Lazio 5-1

    2002 – Ronaldo (8.2) – Germany 2-0

    2003 – Salgado (7.3) – Borussia Dortmund 2-1

    2003 – Raul (8.2), Zidane (7.7) – Manchester United 3-1

    2003 – Prso (8.5) – Deportivo 8-3

    2004 – Terry (7.5) – Arsenal 1-1

    2004 – Recoba (8) – Benfica 4-3

    2004 – Rooney (8.5) – Croatia 4-2

    2004 – Dellas (7.4) – Czech Republic 1-0

    2005 – Casillas (8), Ronaldo (7.2) – Atletico Madrid 3-0

    2005 – Nesta (7.2) – Inter 1-0

    2005 – Pirlo (7.83) – Scotland 2-0

    2005 – Casillas (8), Gravesen (8), Ronaldo (8) – Barcelona 4-2

    2005 – Adriano (8.2) – Argentina 4-1

    2005 – Ronaldinho (8.5) – Real Madrid 3-0

    2006 – Canizares (8.5) – Real Madrid 0-0

    2006 – Ronaldinho (7.5) – Milan 1-0

    2006 – Zambrotta (7.7) – Ukraine 3-0

    2006 – Ribery (7.3) and Zidane (7.2) – Spain 3-1

    2006 – Zidane (8.2) – Brazil 1-0

    2006 – Grosso (8), Cannavaro (7.8), Buffon (7.6) and Pirlo (7.3) – Germany 2-0

    2006 – Cannavaro (7.7), Materazzi (7.6) and Buffon (7.4) – France 1-1

    2007 – Kaka (8.7) – Boca Juniors 4-2

    2007 – Pepe (8.25) – Barcelona 1-0

    2008 – Rooney (7.67) – Liverpool 3-0

    2008 – Buffon (8.2) – Romania 1-1

    2009 – Iniesta (7.8) – Chelsea 1-1

    2009 – Puyol (8.1) – Real Madrid 1-0
     
  18. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    2010 – Messi (8.6) – Valencia 3-0

    2010 – Sneijder (7.9) – Chelsea 1-0

    2010 – Olic (7.5), Van der Sar (7.3) – Bayern Munich – Manchester United 2-1

    2010 – Scholes (7.9) – Manchester City 1-0

    2010 – Milito (7.9) – Bayern Munich 2-0

    2010 – Villa (7.7) – Paraguay 1-0

    2010 – Thomas Muller (8.5) – England 4-1

    2010 – Sneijder (7.4) and Forlan (7.2) – Netherlands – Uruguay 3-2

    2011 – Nesta (7.3) – Barcelona 2-2

    2011 – Forlan (8) – Paraguay 3-0

    2011 – Cristiano (8.25) – Zaragoza 6-0

    2011 – Rooney (9.2) and Young (8.7) – 8-2

    2011 – Dzeko (9.2) – Tottenham 5-1

    2011 – Thiago (8) and Messi (8) - Villarreall 5-0

    2011 – Messi (8.5) – Osasuna 8-0

    2011 – Javi Varas (9) – Barcelona 0-0

    2011 – Kevin Prince Boateng (8.6) – Lecce 4-3

    2011 – David Silva (8.9) and Balotelli (8.5) – Man United 6-1

    2011 –Van Persie (8.6) – Chelsea 5-3

    2011 – Drogba (8.6) – Valencia 3-0

    2011 – Messi (8.25) – Santos 4-0

    2012 – Puyol (7.5) – Real Madrid 2-1

    2012 – Ozil (8.4) – Zaragoza 3-1

    2012 – Diego Lopez (8.1) – Barcelona 0-0

    2012 – Rooney (8.2), Mata (7.8) – Chelsea – Man United 3-3

    2012 – Ibrahimovic (8.2) – Arsenal 4-0

    2012 – Messi (9.5) – Bayer Leverkusen 7-1

    2012 – Llorente (8.2), De Gea (7.9) – Man United – Athletic Bilbao 2-3

    2012 – Gomez (8.7), Ribery (8.3) – Basel 7-0

    2012 – Gerrard (8.6) – Everton 3-0

    2012 – Ivanovic (7.6) – Napoli 4-1

    2012 – Llorente (7.7) – Manchester United 2-1

    2012 – Vucinic (7.9) – Fiorentina 5-0

    2012 – Robben (8.5), Ribery (8.5), Muller (8.5) – Hertha Berlin 6-0

    2012 – Nasri (7.8) – Chelsea 2-1

    2012 – Buffon (7.3), Caceres (7.3) – Inter 2-0

    2012 - David Luiz (7.4) – Benfica 1-0

    2012 – Ambrosini (7.1), Nesta (7.1) – Barcelona 0-0

    2012 – Ronaldo (9) – Atletico Madrid 4-1

    2012 – Vidal (8) – Roma 4-0

    2012 – Drogba (8.3) – Tottenham 5-1

    2012 – Neuer (7.9) – Real Madrid 1-2

    2012 – Falcao (8.3) – Athletic Bilbao 3-0

    2012 – Lewandowski (9) – Bayern Munich 5-2

    2012 – Cech (7.5) and Drogba (7.5) – Bayern Munich 1-1

    2012 – Van Persie (9.5) – Blackburn 7-1

    2012 – Gomez (8.2) - Netherlands

    2012 – Cristiano Ronaldo (8.2) – Netherlands 2-1

    2012 – Shevchenko (8.2) – Sweden 2-1

    2012 – Khedira (7.8) – Greece 4-2

    2012 – Xabi Alonso (8.1) – France 2-0

    2012 – Balotelli (8.5), Pirlo (7.7) – Germany 2-0

    2012 – Xavi (8.3) and Iniesta (8.2) – Italy 4-0

    2012 – Falcao (9) – Chelsea 4-1

    2012 – Cavani (8.1) – Lazio 3-0

    2012 – Hart (8.3) – Borussia Dortmund 1-1

    2012 – Ibrahimovic (10) – England 4-2

    2012 – Iniesta (8) – Levante 4-0

    2012 – Totti (9) – Fiorentina 4-2

    2012 – Walcott (8.3) – Newcastle 7-3

    2013 – Cavani (8.9) – Roma 4-1

    2013 – Pogba (8) – Udinese 4-0

    2013 – Ozil (8), Di Maria (8), Cristiano Ronaldo (8) – Valencia 5-0

    2013 – Varane (8.4) – Barcelona 1-1

    2013 – Cristiano Ronaldo (8.4) – Sevilla 4-1

    2013 – Vidal (7.5) – Fiorentina 2-0

    2013 – Totti (7.5) – Juventus 1-0

    2013 – Jovetic (8) – Inter 4-1

    2013 – Handanovic (7.7) – Milan 1-1

    2013 – Cristiano Ronaldo (8.6), Varane (7.9), Di Maria (7.8) – Barcelona 3-1

    2013 – Palacio (8) – Catania 3-2

    2013 – Modric (7.3) – Manchester United 2-1

    2013 – Messi (8.7) – Milan 4-0

    2013 – Cassano (8) – Tottenham 4-1

    2013 – Messi (8) – Rayo Vallecano 3-1

    2013 – Pizarro (8.7), Robben (8.2) – Hamburg 9-2

    2013 – Dani Alves (7.3) – PSG 2-2

    2013 – Fabregas (8.6) – Mallorca 5-0

    2013 – Cristiano Ronaldo (8.3) – Athletic Bilbao 3-0

    2013 – Thomas Muller (8.5) – Barcelona 4-0

    2013 – Lewandowski (8.8) – Real Madrid 4-1

    2013 – Ribery (7.8), Robben (7.8) – Barcelona 3-0

    2013 – Modric (8.2) – Malaga 6-2

    2013 – Ivanovic (7.3) – Benfica 2-1

    2013 – Courtois (7.7) – Real Madrid 2-1

    2013 – Di Natale (7.7) – Inter 5-2

    2013 – Robben (7.6) – 2-1 Borussia Dortmund

    2013 – Thiago (8.2) – Italy U21 4-2

    2013 – Neymar (8.1) – Mexico 2-0

    2013 – Neymar (8.2) – Spain 3-0

    2013 – Alaba (7.6) – Schalke 4-0

    2013 – Busquets (7.5) – Real Sociedad 4-1

    2013 – Diego Costa (7.8) – Real Madrid 1-0

    2013 – Ozil (7.8) – Napoli 2-0

    2013 – Di Maria (7.8) – Copenhagen 4-0

    2013 – Totti (8.3) – Inter 3-0

    2013 – Pjanic (7.9) –Napoli 2-0

    2013 – Giuseppe Rossi (8.6) – 4-2 Juventus

    2013 – Ibrahimovic (8.8) Anderlecht 5-0

    2013 – Torres (7.7) - Man City 2-1

    2013 – Bale (8), Ronaldo (8), Benzema (8) – Sevilla 7-3

    2013 – Pirlo (7.7) – Napoli 3-0

    2013 – Ronaldo (8.8) – Sweden 3-2

    2013 – Aguero (8.7) – Tottenham 6-0

    2013 – Gervinho (7.8) – Fiorentina 2-1

    2013 – Milner (7.4) – Bayern Munich 3-2

    2013 – Fernandinho (7.8) – Arsenal 6-3
     
  19. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    2014 – Bale (7.9), Benzema (7.9), Ronaldo (7.9) – Schalke 6-1

    2014 – Diego Costa (7.9) – Milan 4-1

    2014 – Messi (8.3) – Osasuna 7-0

    2014 – Messi (8.4), Di Maria (8) – Barcelona – Real Madrid 4-3

    2014 – Reus (7.8) – Real Madrid 2-0

    2014 – Bale (7.5), Di Maria (7.5) – Barcelona 2-1

    2014 – Ramos (8.1), Ronaldo (7.8) – Bayern Munich 4-0

    2014 – Godin (7.5) – Barcelona 1-1

    2014 – Di Maria (7.8), Ramos (7.6), Godin (7.2) – Real Madrid – Atletico 4-1

    2014 – Robben (8.2), Van Persie (8) – Spain 5-1

    2014 – Campbell (8.1) – Uruguay 2-1

    2014 – Benzema (7.8) – Honduras 3-0

    2014 – Muller (8.17) – Portugal 0-0

    2014 – Ochoa (8.22) – Brazil 0-0

    2014 – Luis Suarez (8.04) – England 2-1

    2014 – Neymar (8.1) – Cameroon 4-1

    2014 – James Rodriguez (7.73) – Japan 4-1

    2014 – Messi (8) – Nigeria 3-2

    2014 – Shaquiri (7.93) – Honduras 3-0

    2014 – Julio Cesar (7.82) – Chile 2-2

    2014 – James Rodriguez (8.25) – Uruguay 2-0

    2014 – Navas (8.18) – Greece 1-1

    2014 – Hummels (7.8) – France 1-0

    2014 – David Luiz (7.65) – Colombia 2-1

    2014 – Navas (7.85) – Netherlands 0-0

    2014 – Kroos (8.4), Muller (8.1), Khedira (8) – Brazil 7-1

    2014 – Gotze (7.5) – Argentina 1-0

    2014 – Aguero (8.2) – Tottenham 4-1

    2014 – Robben (8.7) – Roma 7-1

    2014 – Koke (7.6) – Malmo 5-0

    2014 – Benzema (7.7) – Bardelona 3-1

    2014 – Alaba (7.5) – Roma 2-0

    2014 – Messi (8.9) – Sevilla 5-1

    2014 – Aguero (8.6) – Bayern Munich 3-1

    2014 – Willian (7.6) – Schalke 5-0

    2014 – Hazard (7.5) – Tottenham 3-0

    2014 – Messi (8.7) – Espanyol 5-1

    2014 – Van Persie (8) – Southampton 2-1

    2014 – De Gea (8.5) – Liverpool 3-0

    2014 – Sergio Ramos (7.3) – San Lorenzo 2-0

    2015 – Griezmann (7.7) – Real Madrid 4-0

    2015 – Kane (8) – Arsenal 2-1

    2015 – Salah (8) – Juventus 2-1

    2015 – Messi (8.2), Hart (8.2) – Barcelona – Man City 1-0

    2015 – Tevez (8.7) – Borussia Dortmund 3-0

    2015 – Mata (8.3) – Liverpool 2-1

    2015 – Hamsik (8.1), Higuain (7.9) – Wolfsburg 4-1

    2015 – Thiago (8.1), Lewandowski (7.9) – Porto 6-1

    2015 – Cristiano Ronaldo (8.4) – 3-2

    2015 – Messi (9) – Bayern Munich 3-0

    2015 – Bacca (8) – Dnipro 3-2

    2015 – Iniesta (7.3), Suarez (7.2) Buffon (7), Messi (7) – Barcelona – Juventus 3-1

    2015 – Messi (7.7) - Paraguay 6-1

    2015 – Aguero (8.1) – Chelsea 3-0

    2015 – Florenzi (8.2) – Barcelona 1-1

    2015 – Alli (7.8) – France 2-0

    2015 – Iniesta (8.2), Neymar (7.9), Suarez (7.8) – Real Madrid 4-0

    2015 – Suarez (8.3), Messi (8.2) – Roma 6-1

    2015 – Higuain (8.5) – Inter 2-1

    2015 – Cristiano Ronaldo (8.3), Benzema (8.1) – Malmo 8-0

    2015 – Giroud (8) – Olympiakos 3-0

    2015 – Mahrez (8.2) – Chelsea 2-1

    2015 – Ozil (8) – Manchester City 2-1

    2016 – Caballero (8.1) – Liverpool 1-1

    2016 – Oblak (7.5) – Bayern Munich 1-2

    2016 – Ramos (7.2) – Atletico Madrid 1-1

    2016 – Payet (7.8) – Romania 2-1

    2016 – Bonucci (7.6) – Belgium 2-0

    2016 – Hamsik (7.8) – Russia 2-1

    2016 – Perisic (7.7) – Spain 2-1

    2016 – Ronaldo (7.7) – Hungary 3-3

    2016 – Messi (7.8) – USA 4-0

    2016 – Hazard (7.8) – Hungary 4-0

    2016 – Griezmann (7.7) – Ireland 2-1

    2016 – Draxler (7.7) – Slovakia 3-0

    2016 – Buffon (8), Chiellini (7.9) – Spain 2-0

    2016 – Griezmann (8) - Germany

    2016 – Eder (7.7) – France 1-0

    2016 – De Bruyne (7.8) – Man United 2-1

    2016 – Messi (8.3) – Man City 4-0

    2016 – Hazard (8.6) – Everton 5-0

    2016 – Costa (7.7) – Man City 3-1

    2017 – Lallana (7.7) – Man City 1-0

    2017 – Mertens (8.3) – Bologna 7-1

    2017 – Hazard (7.9) – Arsenal 3-1

    2017 – Di Maria (8) – Barcelona 4-0

    2017 – Thiago (8.2) – Arsenal 5-1

    2017 – Dzeko (8.1) - Villarreal 4-0

    2017 – Sergio Ramos (7.8) – Napoli 3-1

    2017 – Neymar (8.4) – PSG 6-1

    2017 – Donnarumma (8.1) – Juventus 1-2

    2017 – Dybala (8.3) – Barcelona 3-0

    2017 – Ronaldo (8), Marcelo (7.7) – Bayern Munich 4-2

    2017 – Chiellini (7.4) – Barcelona 0-0

    2017 – Messi (8.5) – Real Madrid 3-2

    2017 – Ronaldo (8.7) – Atletico Madrid 3-0

    2017 – Dani Alves (7.8), Higuain (7.8), Buffon (7.4) – Monaco 2-0

    2017 – Dani Alves (7.8) – Monaco 2-1

    2017 – Cristiano Ronaldo (8.4), Modric (7.6) – 4-1 Juventus

    2017 – Isco (8.2) – Italy 3-0

    2017 – Messi (8.4) – Juventus 3-0
     
  20. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    There is maybe a bit of a skewing to the top Italian and top Spanish teams? I've a tentative feeling that many of Ibra's best games for PSG (even in Europe at group stage level) are not on there. As well as some of Hazard's best, or Aguero. Past season Robben received a 1.0/6 by kicker for his games against RB Leipzig and Borussia Dortmund, as another example (might be generous, might be not, but would be another candidate if listed).
     
  21. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Did you also check him against Real Madrid in the 1999 quarter finals? After having seen both games now of the semi final, and re-checking the QF highlights again, I think I'm more fond of these two games. Link-up play comes more to the fore (not taking away his semi final goals).



    He sets up the second goal from midfield. Again, Real Madrid also defends more like how 'modern' sides tend to defend.
     
  22. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    Yes, that's right. He mainly covers Italy and Spain so they are predominantly collected.

    I think also we know that there are differences in ratings between countries. England is very generous generally (Leroy Sane received a 10 from the Sun for his performance against Crystal Palace on Saturday), France is very harsh. I saw that Harry Kane got a 9 from GdS for his performance against APOEL which is a rarity. Germany I think is relatively generous. Italy tends to operate in a very narrow range with almost every player getting between 5-7.

    I thought it was interesting to go through though to try and at least remember some recent performances, as it is apparent just how many very high (above 8) ratings Messi (and to a lesser extent Ronaldo) has had. There were a lot of Messi ratings above 7.5 that I didn't bother to include.
     
  23. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    I remember PDG had not too long ago a detailed look at DBScalcio and IIRC he said England and Spain were the most generous (those were at the top indeed, also discounting CR7 and LM10, but PDG looked more detailed at it). Germany and Italy can be generous at times to established players, but now I'm looking at this I see a handful instances of possible harsh-ish ratings (Ribery or Robben with two goals against opponents of reasonable level and then yet below 7.2 or so).

    Yes I saw none of Suarez's Liverpool games made it, yet they tend to be generous in ratings, so that also made me thinking about a possible skewness/gap in coverage.

    You listed Zidane vs Brazil in 2006 at 8.2 but this one gives 8.6?
    http://football-ratings.blogspot.com/2011/10/best-individual-ratings-world-cup-2006.html

    (sorry, I very vaguely remembered this one because it is such a famous match)
     
  24. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    It was from this http://football-ratings.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/today-8-years-ago-brazil-0-1-france.html

    I think part of the question is what are the sources used for some of these. I think Football Ratings primarily uses Italian ones.

    The Spanish papers are a bit odd in that AS (and I think Marca) uses a 3 ace system, so getting a 3 is good but it's hard to translate that into a rating out of 10.

    The Italians are undoubtedly the most serious about it.
     
  25. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    To me this was a bit unclear but below many reports the phrase "el duro" appears.

    http://football-ratings.blogspot.com/search?q="el+duro"

    Both domestically and in international games, predominantly when involving Spanish teams.
    http://football-ratings.blogspot.com/2012/11/player-ratings-barcelona-celta-real.html
    http://football-ratings.blogspot.com/2012/11/player-ratings-real-madrid-2-bor.html
    http://football-ratings.blogspot.com/2012/10/player-ratings-barcelona-2-celtic-1.html
    http://football-ratings.blogspot.com/2011/12/player-ratings-barcelona-4-santos-0.html

    That "el duro" is 'AS' lingo for their game evaluations. As well as those other phrases ('el crack' etc.). See this as evidence by himself:
    http://football-ratings.blogspot.com/2013/10/memory-lane-la-liga-200809.html

    Some more, for the World Cups:
    http://football-ratings.blogspot.com/2014/07/the-newspapers-and-sites-calculated-in.html

    Or here:
    http://football-ratings.blogspot.com/2013/03/barcelona-milan-how-some-of-giants-voted.html
    http://football-ratings.blogspot.com/2013/03/the-last-five-barcelona-milan-matches.html

    At least for those 'el crack' or 'el duro' things (and maybe it isn't always noted down) Spanish sources are included or the main ones.
     

Share This Page