Football Tactics

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by Orange14, Nov 11, 2011.

  1. Antario2

    Antario2 Member

    Jan 29, 2012
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Guardiolas side was built to probe deep sitting defenses without risking counters and in (rare) open games would starve the opponent of possession and use the passing game to wear the opponent out who would have to chase the ball.

    Before 2006 an opponent would simply make the field compact and flood the midfield with players, trusting on the off side trap against counters. Barcelona would not be able to gain numerical superiority there, there would be much less space for the passing game and would struggle in terms of physicality. The typical early 2000s sides like Ancelotti's Milan, Mourinhos Chelsea and Wenger's Arsenal would have overpowered them in midfield under the old rules. Guardiola himself, a Xavi like passer, was literately muscled out of the game by the late 90s.

    Bayern use hard pressing (and possession to lesser extent) to play a high line.
     
  2. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Totally forgot that he was there before Neeskens took over as the 2nd. I still don't fully understand why Ten Cate jumped ship at Ajax for Chelsea (was he going to be sacked by Ajax? Did he really think he would get the top spot at Chelsea?). He's had an interesting managerial career to say the least.
     
  3. I think Henk ten Cate is one of the unjustifiably underrated coaches of NL tactically. He was a somewhat emotional loose cannon, but tactically I think among the top of what we have produced, and that's coming from a Feyenoord fan.
     
  4. JC-14

    JC-14 Member+

    Jan 28, 2010
    Amsterdam
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Money
     
  5. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Sybe Pals repped this.
  6. This thread has very little life in it, while we all claim to be interested in tactics.
    So here is a site that is very interesting for the thread's topic:
    http://spielverlagerung.com/2014/11/24/the-bulwark-of-the-saints/
    In this thread you can read an analysis of Ronald Koeman's tactics at his various clubs

    Overall this site is loaded with interesting analysis. Just read the Wenger break down of his tactics in his clash with Bayern.
     
    Sybe Pals repped this.
  7. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    ^^FSF - thanks for the link; looks quite good.
     
  8. PuckvanHeel posted a link in another thread about how JC outwitted Fergy:
    http://spielverlagerung.de/2015/01/01/cruyff-blamiert-ferguson/
    Cruyff blamiert Ferguson
    von CE am 01.01.2015 in den Kategorien Champions League,Featured,Historische Teams,Retroanalysen mit 12 Kommentaren

    [​IMG]4:0[​IMG]

    In der Neuauflage des 1991er Cup-Winners‘-Cup-Finals triumphierte dieses Mal, im Jahr 1994, Johan Cruyff über Alex Ferguson, wodurch Manchester United von der Tabellenspitze der Champions-League-Gruppe A verdrängt wird. In einem einseitigen Spiel ließ Barcelona dem Meister aus England keine Chance und beherrschte mit einmaligem Positionsspiel und grandioser Raumkontrolle das Geschehen.
     
  9. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    We know that van Gaal was a big fan of build up from the back and his protege, Frank de Boer, implemented these tactics while at Ajax. I don't remember van Marwijk's NT doing as much of this but he also played with two deep lying MF pivots (van Bommel and de Jong). Is it because teams are afraid to lose the ball in the midfield thus exposing themselves to a counter attack or simply a lack of good passing midfielders? I try to watch as many Jong Ajax games as I can via Internet streams and it's clear the Marcel Keizer does not use these tactics at all. Jong Ajax try to get the ball into the offensive half via the midfield as quickly as possible and then set up an attack. Playing with a bunch of kids, they are in second place in the Jupiter league and they pretty much have been playing without a striker as Dolberg is on the first team. From what I've seen of Feyenoord this season they tend to play in the midfield most of the time and even Ajax have changed somewhat under Bosz.

    It's a curious approach that leads to huge amounts of possession but that possession is in the wrong part of the field. Barcelona have lots of possession but everyone on their team is good on the ball and most of the passing is in the offensive half. I mainly watch other Euro teams I like: Barca, Juventus, Dortmund, and Liverpool. Juve are probably the most conservative of the three but that's largely a change from the approach Conte used when he was in charge. the others all try to get into the offensive half and then pass the ball looking for opportunities to score.
     
  10. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I am reading a wonderful book right now, "The Mixer: The Story of Premier League Tactics, from Route One to False Nines" by Michael Cox. although it covers only the EPL from the beginnings in the early 1990s to the present day there is a lot of Dutch influence. I don't know what the price is in Europe but I on paid $5 US for the Kindle version of the book. There was a nice section on Ruud Gullit with some information I did not know. He came up as a defender and his early playing days were as a libero. It was only after some seasons that he moved up the pitch as an attacking MF.
     
  11. On social media Dutch 4-3-3 beat Kim Kardashian 95-60-95:
    https://www.ad.nl/ad-werkt/dit-nede...ter-op-instagram-dan-kim-kardashian~ae63556f/
    Dit Nederlandse bedrijf doet het beter op Instagram dan Kim Kardashian

    Kim Kardashian, Ariana Grande en Cristiano Ronaldo hebben het nakijken. Het account van het Nederlandse bedrijf 433 staat op de derde plek van Instagram-accounts met de meeste interacties.

    Alex van der Hulst 22-02-19, 15:44 Laatste update: 15:48
     
  12. From another thread:
     
    PuckVanHeel repped this.
  13. @Orange14 Is this thread not worthy to be sticky on top too?
     
  14. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Your wish is my command!!;)
     
  15. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
  16. We have the Cruyff turn and the Robben:)
    Which other moves are there? The Zidane?
     
  17. From the article this is the most interesting part to explain his successful efforts.
    That was what I've looking for for years now.

    "There is a reason for that. In 2010, a cognitive scientist named Shanti Ganesh, based at Radboud University in the Netherlands, conducted a study into Robben’s movement. He determined that Robben moves “a little faster than conscious knowledge.” A defender’s brain, Ganesh said, unconsciously follows Robben’s feints, even if it knows, deep down, that they are only feints. In the time it takes to rectify the error, Robben — as he was always going to, as everyone involved knew he was going to — has cut inside and taken a shot. “The player can still correct himself,” Ganesh said. “But that will always be a fraction too late.”

    It connects to your primal subconscious brain reactions. You almost never can beat your instinctive reactions, as these are hard wired into your brain as a survival mechanism.
    Criminals know you should not look at surveillance cameras, but there's a trick to beat that conscious knowledge. When someone is detected being somewhere he/she shouldnot be they trick and override the conscious mind by making a noise at the camera (kind of scratching sound) that appeals to our embedded survival instinct as it could be a dangerous predator in the bushes. Evolution hard wired stuff takes over when immediate decisions have to be made. Makes sense in the Robben case.
     
  18. One question remains, why isnot there someone that can copy him?
     
  19. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Genius is only found in very few people.
     

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