MLS Hater Jeff Kessler Finds New Dupes

You forgot to include WHY the kids that entered via affirmative action aren't performing as well as those that don't. Elninho hints at it here:

The main reason for the difference between schools is what the schools do once the kids get in. What the studies Jazzy mentions above point out (but he fails to expand upon) is that it isn't enough to just let the kids into the school, you have to help them once they get in.

For many of the minorities, they'll be coming from majority minority, lower class schools and they are suddenly being thrust into an environment where they are surrounded by white, affluent kids for the first time. That environment is entirely different than the one they are used to and it can be quite a culture shock for the kids. If they aren't able to adjust to the new environment, the social struggle can cause them to fail academically.

Additionally, for many of the kids are coming from an environment where they are the smartest kid in their school by a large margin and entering an environment where they are surrounded by people that are just as smart, if not smarter than them. Again, that's going to cause issues for some of them because they have to be able to adjust to this new reality and there will be some that can't make it through.

And, just for fun, because many of the kids are coming from lower class schools, they aren't used to having the academic resources available to them that they find at college. Many of the kids are coming from schools whose libraries are woefully deficient, don't have computers, may even have had to share schoolbooks with other kids, etc and because they don't have experience with those academic resources, they might not even know they can utilize them.

Based on this realization, colleges and social programs are setting up programs that help the kids through the transition period of going to college and keeping tabs on them while they are in college to make sure they are aware of the college's resources, how they operate, and, just as importantly, getting used to be around white kids who will periodically say racist things out of ignorance.

 

You misunderstand -- this is all at the same school, after both are admitted.

If underrepresented minorities with similar high school grades and test scores are consistently outperforming their white counterparts at once they get through the initial transition period to college, then by admitting minorities with lower scores you are in fact admitting the most qualified applicants.

 

They're not being kept out of college, they're not being selected by that particular college.

That really sucks I guess for the girl that had her heart set on U Texas, what having to "settle" for Louisiana State.

Of course, it was her grades that didn't get her in. If she had graduated in the top 10% of her class like 90% of the rest of the incoming freshmen for U Texas, she would have gotten in, but she didn't. She had to compete for a very limited number of spots. Based on the review system at the time, even if she had received extra points for being a minority, she still would not have been accepted.

 

Based on the "leaked" grades. She would not have gotten into a selective in state school on the east coast like Maryland, Virginia, Penn State, UNC. Probably would not have gotten into quite a few of the Big Ten Schools.

She would get into South Carolina and West Virginia.

 

Next meaningful WNT game is roughly two years away, and let's be honest - pretty much any top 10 NCAA Division I college team could finish top 3 in CONCACAF WCQ and a direct spot in France 2019. So the real next possibility of losing and going home isn't for 2 1/2 years.

I'm a former union organizer and very pro-labor, but the WNTPA missed its window. If they had won the Gold Medal and were raking in dollars on a victory tour, the window would stay open a while longer, but honestly, a strike could just give USSF a chance to clean house and bring in the next generation. I'm pretty sure enough overlooked players in the NWSL would jump at a chance to spend next year with the WNT. Bruce Arena didn't have a lot of trouble putting together a training camp of D2 players leading up to the 2005 Hexagonal during the MNT strike, and I never heard of any after effects with regards to Clyde Simms, the one D2 player who continued getting MNT call-ups and eventually moved to MLS.

Too be honest, the WNTPA has virtually no leverage. And if Alex Morgan, Carli Lloyd, and (hell I don't even know who would be next anymore Crystal Dunn? Tobin Heath? Morgan Brian?) go a year without a WNT cap, how long will they stay relevant? They do have some Equal Play Equal Pay publicity, but USSF can end the contracts and just offer the women the same contract the MNTPA side has - which the WNTPA doesn't really want. No salaries, no maternity leave, no severance pay.

The longer this goes the stronger the USSF gets. And if the USWNT plays 20 friendlies next year with a new player pool of 40 players not currently under contract to USSF and voting members of the USWNTPA, you'll likely find that the player pool has a lot more talent and is a lot deeper than previously acknowledged. New stars will emerge and the real pressure will be on the current incumbents to cross the picket line.

 

It's systemic because it's the system that protects and encourages those decisions. The claim that the issues we have today with policing and poor and minority communities in this country is a few bad actors is an effort to dodge the fact that it's not just a few bad actors. The problem is systemic. You can treat the symptoms (bad actors), but that doesn't really do anything about the underlying social constructs that foster and enable them.

 

And, of course, the family and community's role in this situation is completely ignored. It doesn't matter how good or how much funding your schools are when the family and community situation is in tatters.

The problem with your fundamental world view is that you begin with the assumption that any disparity in outcome is attributable from racism, and then you build a bridge back from there. You ignore hugely significant factors because they are inconsistent with your politics.

 

No, it's really not. You might want to look into "White Flight". It could really be called "Ownership Flight", but it's overwhelmingly white and it flees, consistently to suburbia and now exurbia as best it's income will allow it.

Single family neighborhoods decay when the homes start trending from Ownership to Rental. Whether it was the threat of their kids being "bussed" 40-50 years ago, chasing jobs or all those immigrants filling up the schools or large city school districts not having sufficient funding or the right sports/ extra-curricular, people vote with their feet when the rest of the background population stops caring to show up or votes against the funding to keep schools running.

Those that can, flee to school districts where no one can recall a bond issue being turned down, ever. Those that can't move, eventually die off and the kids having long moved off, sell the house to anyone rather than take the time & money to renovate or occupy these dwellings. Maybe it goes to an owner/occupant, but usually to a person who'll pay cash and is going to rent it and get whatever value is left out of it that way. As all that happens, property values plummet and revenue for infrastructure & schools fall as well. The net effect is that lower income families are concentrated into islands of failing schools & infrastructure, low employment opportunities, and failing neighborhoods.

The funding pretty much goes with single family ownership in this country and with a hundred year history of minorities being either prevented from buying homes or steered into neighborhoods that are already failing following the exodus of blue collar employment to other regions in the US, and later overseas, communities fall apart and it's not the fault of minority communities. It's the fault of people who are scared they're daughters are going to bring home a boy that isn't the right color.

The problem with your worldview is that it's demonstrably wrong and that the socioeconomic issues you talk about are the legacy of racial discrimination in housing and employment in this country.

Those factors are symptoms of racism & discriminatory policies, not contributing factors.

 

One thing people forget -- case in point, the writers who think straight white men have no business talking about Kaepernick or Rapinoe -- is that the USA has managed to be hostile to many ethnic groups.

As Dave Chappelle put it once: "I saw two Italian dudes beating up an Irish dude, and I thought, 'Man, these people are specific.'"

And most of us are here in the USA because someone in our family tree pissed somebody off. I'm not sure what possessed Felix Dure to take his family back and forth across the Atlantic before finally deciding to trade Macon, France for Macon, Georgia, but I'm guessing it was pretty serious.

No, that doesn't mean I can fully understand the experience of being stopped for driving while black, much less what it's like to have parents and grandparents who remember the days of virtual apartheid in the alleged land of the free. But I really don't have much patience for privileged young white kids who think they have some sort of exclusive understanding of prejudice that no old, straight white man could possibly have.

 

You guys haven't discussed abortion rights yet. Come on... get to it.

 

Interacting with an unhinged person such as yourself is resulting in diminishing returns, but I will everyone else with a couple of points.

First, black families are in an objectively much worse state than they were 50-60 years ago, during the height of the Jim Crow era. But racism has indisputably decreased since then. Thus, obviously there are other cultural factors at play. And the tired lack of school funding excuse does not play in many situations:

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2014/04/07/study-no-link-between-school-spending-student-achievement/

http://www.cnsnews.com/commentary/terence-p-jeffrey/dc-schools-29349-pupil-83-not-proficient-reading

Anyone interested should listen to this recent podcast with Sam Harris and Glenn C. Lowry, a black economist from Brown, for a much more interesting and intellectual conversation on a similar topic.

https://www.samharris.org/podcast/item/racism-and-violence-in-America


Would you rather live as a Kurd in Syria or Turkey or Iraq or be a black in the United States? The Kurds are in an objectively much worse situation, being in a third-world company surrounded by various hostile groups hoping to genocide them. Yet they have a remarkably internal stable social structure despite suffering from much more oppressive factors.

And the Japanese are doing very well despite the racism and wealth loss they experienced--better than whites in fact. The fact that there are only a couple million Japanese Americans makes no difference--that is a statistically significant critical mass of people. (Not dissimilar in scale to Native Americans in fact.)

And it is simply not true that most Japanese can trace their immigrant roots to post-WW2 wealthy individuals. As already stated, Japan didn't even get significantly more wealthy as a country until the 1980s. And that of course causes emigration to decrease, because most successful people don't want to leave their home country for a foreign land where they don't speak the language. The same goes with the Chinese, who's earning power is roughly on par with whites, and who's home country experienced no wealth gains until even later than the Japanese.

 

The cognitive dissonance you you referring to Mr. Warmth as "unhinged", then suggesting that black families were in a better state back in the near-apartheid era of the 50s and 60s just gave me whiplash.

You win, dude. I'm not sure what, but you win.

 

Back when Bill Cosby was a thing, I always loved his father's threat to keep him and his brother in line. "You mess up, I'll kill you, then make another that looks just like you."

 

You literally can look into the marriage rates and child raising stats re: males during that time period. It is completely factual, if inconvenient. The introduction of the welfare state is arguably the cause of the disintegration.

"Even in the antebellum era, when slaves often weren't permitted to wed, most black children lived with a biological mother and father. During Reconstruction and up until the 1940s, 75% to 85% of black children lived in two-parent families. Today, more than 70% of black children are born to single women. "The welfare state has done to black Americans what slavery couldn't do, what Jim Crow couldn't do, what the harshest racism couldn't do," Mr. Williams says. "And that is to destroy the black family."

 

Thank god we can excuse centuries of persecution by our white forbears. Now it's entirely their own fault. Must be something wrong with them.

They were so much better off when we kept them in their place under our thumb.

Wow.

 

lol I never said any of that. Nor do I believe that. But the world is much more complex than you'd like to believe. Again, there is tons of literature about the welfare state being to blame. Feel free to disagree, but don't accuse me of racism until you actually understand what I'm saying.

 

It's really difficult to figure out how you got that from his post.

Is there anyone who disagrees that the last half century or so has been disastrous for the stability of the black family? And we're starting to see the same trend in white families as well. Blacks were the canaries in the coal mine.

 

He simply cannot confront facts that are inconsistent with his political world view. It's the liberal version of the Birther movement.

 

What was that about insults? Nevermind, you're shitty at it.

If APII is still around, I'll let him comment on that @Auriaprottu

No, it's just gotten more subversive, until about 8 years ago.

So, basically, white flight and the collapse of America's urban school districts didn't happen because you say it didn;t and found one guy to agree with you.

Neither actually.

Literally two things that could not be less alike.

You don't understand statistics.

Not what we call ourselves, FYI

One source (yours) is not nearly an exhaustive search and given your slanted sources provided so far, we have "trust" issues with you.

Not definitively

Did it?

Immigration from Japan, 1860-2008



Source: Department of Homeland Security, Yearbook of Immigration Statistics, 2008. Figures include only immigrants who obtained legal permanent resident status.

A lot of native Japanese are fairly conversational in English and one of the Asian countries with a good degree of overall English proficiency, though I am confident that that is somewhat generational.

http://www.ef.edu/epi/regions/asia/japan/

 

Facts aren't the problem. It's your inability to understand them, to put them in context.

Police violence against of coverups of such violence against minorities and the poor aren't necessarily on the increase despite the fact that, statistically, there is a lot more physical evidence that they're occuring - dashcams, cell phones, etc...

Chances are that such attacks and coverups are probably actually on the decrease. What's difference is the public evidence of such actions.

If you listen to black voices over the last half century in film, politics, music, and every day life, this has been happening all along. It's just now there's public evidence. Ice T's Cop Killer and NWA's ******** The Police didn't come about in a vacuum.

Sure. The rates of unwed black mothers is higher today than before. But to assert that "the welfare state" is somehow at cause is to ignore centuries of societal and actual violence perpetrated against minorities in our society and baked into our control structures.

To assert that black families were better off in the 50s/60s than they are today is so ludicrous that it beggars belief.

It's really too bad that Tito died and Yugoslavia broke up. Amirite?

 

Yes, there is literally a cottage industry in fabricating an alternative history of the US

Like I said, racism has gotten more subversive, intellectual even. It helps the undereducated believe that someone other than the people who have shipped their jobs to China are to blame for the factory closing.

 

Interesting thread.

When the theology discussion starts I'll jump in.

 

If those workers hadn't unionized and insisted on OSHA audits and a living wage, they wouldn't have had to move the jobs overseas. It's those greedy workers' fault.

 

There's something for everybody!