Lifting Sal's ban

Discussion in 'Customer Service' started by P to the Wee, Aug 21, 2015.

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  1. P to the Wee

    P to the Wee Red Card

    Nov 22, 2011
    Susan is a Little Lamb
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Can you please answer my earlier question?
     
  2. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Respectfully disagree again.

    You are probably misinformed as the majority of his posts are on the topic of soccer, specifically his team. Go and look though his whole history and you'll find this to be true.

    Except, of course, petition hard for it. You guys may have pulled the trigger, but please don't tell us that the other mods didn't have a say. We're not that gullible, and I believe @La Magica has already proved otherwise;

     
  3. meazza

    meazza Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    What the mods think of Sal

     
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  4. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    What question?
     
  5. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Who is this Sal guy, and why are you all so willing to serve as his minions?

    minions-1920x1080.jpg
     
  6. P to the Wee

    P to the Wee Red Card

    Nov 22, 2011
    Susan is a Little Lamb
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Here:

     
  7. meazza

    meazza Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    We are all sal. Resistance is futile.
     
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  8. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    This guy

    [​IMG]

    Because he does my homework.
     
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  9. meazza

    meazza Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Could someone photoshop a Borg squirtle?
     
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  10. meazza

    meazza Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    If sal does your homework chances are you wont get out of elementary school
     
  11. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Borg Squirtle.jpg
     
  12. Rossonero23

    Rossonero23 Member+

    Sep 9, 2010
    Club:
    AC Milan
    sal is the leader of the bigsoccer revolution.

    do the right thing guys.
     
  13. bungadiri

    bungadiri Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 25, 2002
    Acnestia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So for starters, while we might disagree about where racism begins and ends, I'll point out to you that this is immaterial to the misguided case being made on Sal's behalf. The claim is that he's been victimized by some shadowy conspiracy that was motivated by a particular mod's personal grudge. However, the first ban came in response to Sal comparing African Americans to animals. It had nothing to do with anything going on in the Italy forum. This was explained to him, as were the terms of his return. When that first ban was up, he chose to double down by quoting white supremacist websites. That led to the second ban. When that was up, it was made clear to him that he was on thin ice. His response was to find a slightly different thin patch of ice and jump up and down. The response was completely predictable and he's got no reason to be surprised. The standards imposed on Sal are exactly what he was told they were and he chose to cross that line multiple times. You make a choice like that, then the responsibility for the outcome is yours whether you like it or not.

    It is therefore both inaccurate and unfair to suggest that the personal motives of any moderator in the Italy forum had anything to do with Sal being banned from this site. That simply did not happen.

    Second, the suggestion that one needs to have a dick to endure and overcome offense, much less real hardship and suffering is both historically inaccurate and sexist. So is the the concomitant suggestion that the absence of a dick is somehow a morally diminished or deprived state.

    Third, in my opinion, if someone deploys the animal comparison as a point of entry to discussion on race in the US, where that very comparison has been used to justify slavery and other forms of state-based violence against minority populations, then it's very reasonable to assume that they are deliberately invoking that history of racism. Whether they're doing it because they are in fact racists or because they get off on aggravating people doesn't make a big difference.
     
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  14. bungadiri

    bungadiri Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 25, 2002
    Acnestia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We've had this discussion before. I've told you exactly what happened with respect to the site ban. You may insist that something else happened, but you are simply incorrect.

    With respect to the forum ban, (as dark knight has already pointed out) that's a pretty mundane thing. Moderators are entitled to ask for bans preventing one poster or another from accessing their forum, if that poster is there trolling. In fact, it's probably less of a problem for the person banned than getting warnings, since the accumulation of warnings can impact their ability to use the whole site, while bans just impact one specific forum. Frankly, the only thing unusual about this particular forum ban is the amount of whining it's generated. But it was not part of the decisions leading to the current ban. Not one of the Italy forum mods advocated for the current ban or any of the other previous bans related to the racist posts.
     
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  15. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I believe you were part of the conversation, and it stuns me you learned nothing from that conversation. I'm talking about the conversation in the thread in which the aforementioned poster made said comment.

    It also stuns me the lack of reflection taking place from quite a few poster in this thread. Rather than look at reasons why a poster was or was not banned or redded, both of which were explained, there has been a plethora of posts saying that it was wrong to ban rather than address the issue of the of the behavior for the ban/red itself. Clearly, the actions by the aforementioned poster were deemed over the line, on several occasions, after at least 2 separate bans. The poster was given the opportunity to return with an expectation of posting behavior, and chose not to follow those expectations. It was the behavior of the poster that left the mods no choice to act based on the violation of the exceptions given upon return (this is standard practice for a return poster who has been banned.) This is regardless of any post any where else on BigSoccer.

    Regarding the question of the NSFW thread, that is a valid question and worthy of the discussion in a separate thread. Such discussions have occurred before, but I am currently leery about the nature of that discussion due to the vendetta that several posters seem to have against all mods on this site.

    Regarding the comment that was said by Dark Knight...I'm sure you can dig up an out-of-bounds post by each and every poster on this site, apart from the Bots. The rest of us are human and we err. The difference with the poster in which this thread is dedicated about was the unwillingness to understand the errors that were made, to continue to post in a manner that was deemed to be unacceptable, even after being warned, then to be banned, and to return in an antagonistic manner in such a way that the ultimate, and unfortunate, result is a ban.

    And as someone who has been a mod for more than 3 World Cups worth of time, banning a poster from the site is an absolutely last resort, particularly one that has been around for a while.
     
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  16. Rossonero23

    Rossonero23 Member+

    Sep 9, 2010
    Club:
    AC Milan
    sal's a nice young man

    i can vouch for him.
     
    meazza and La Magica repped this.
  17. meazza

    meazza Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    lol

    This has to be the biggest bullshit I've ever read. It astonishes me that you actually came up with all of this with a straight face. Justify it all you want but Sal's a good guy and you kicked out a good guy in a community where we all enjoyed speaking with each other and discussing our favorite topics, all over a titty.

    I second @La Magica s suggestion. The "delete account" should be a new feature added because clearly you all take us for idiots if you expect us to believe that the moderation is at all fair.

    ******** this shit I'm done with you.

    Cheers
     
  18. P to the Wee

    P to the Wee Red Card

    Nov 22, 2011
    Susan is a Little Lamb
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    -Maybe I was part of the conversation about Sal being a racist back then, I'm not entirely sure. I did see the thread in the customer service subforum the other day for the first time though.

    -This is a soccer forum, not a political forum so mistakes will happen. Maybe we are wrong and you are right about saying that a behavior is animal like is racist, but I don't believe it. We can have this discussion going on forever and ever, I don't think we will come to an agreement, I simply do not see how calling a behavior animal like is racist. White people, groups with people of all ethnicities, etc.. I too would describe those actions as being animals. But whatever, we won't agree. What I hope we can agree on is that you can at least see our point of view. You don't have to agree with it, or allow for it to be accepted on BigSoccer, but accepting that some people see the meaning as non racist is okay right? So why not just a delete and no infraction?

    -Sal walks a fine line a lot. It's not smart, but it's who he is. It certainly wasn't smart to do it so soon after finishing a ban, but deletion worthy? Ehhh. A lot of mod actions before the deletion were questionable and IMO went unaddressed. I would carry out a discussion on this but it seems the mods are more focused on flexing their internet muscles on here than actually having a discussion and understanding the other side of the story. I think it is quite telling that the thread on Il Ciuccio that I opened had 14 votes in favor of him stepping down and only 2 in favor of keeping him. Usually mods are hated by posters who come to troll and the mod stops them to protect the regular posters, but even the regular posters in that mods forum are fed up with him. But whatever, no need to talk about it, I know an actual discussion on it won't happen and I know mods who agree with me are too afraid to speak up here. I mean it's right in my PM box.

    -This is the first time I see someone mention that post by DK as a mistake, but has he ever admitted to the mistake or apologized to Sal at this point? Stuff like that will understandably rile Sal up and make him be a bit more reckless in his posting. I mean his ban came what, 3 days after that post? It's hard to make a clear understanding of what is acceptable and what isn't when others get away with more and some with less. Even I'm guilty of it, I have no damn clue how the hell I dodged a yellow for the last couple days until yesterday when I finally got one. Sal would have been stoned to death if he made half of the posts I made that were yellow card worthy.

    I'm sorry, but a lot of mods do some questionable work here. A good amount here are too afraid to admit to their mistakes and pin it on the posters. Just recently I received an infraction from a mod for my post in the Sporting forum. I deserved it, I didn't argue it, but I asked why a post calling me a piece of shit was allowed to still be up there. After I mentioned it he deleted the guys post, but rather than admit his mistake, he turns it on me and tells me to stop trying to act all innocent. I never acted innocent, I didn't debate my infraction, but the moderator was too proud to admit he made a mistake.

    So if there's a moderator here that wants to have an actual debate on this topic they can reply to me here or send a PM, but I'm not interested in a conversation if the only thing you're going to do is show me how big your internet muscles are.
     
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  19. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    #144 Calcio Pauly, May 19, 2016
    Last edited: May 19, 2016
    Show us this comparison because all I'm hearing is that you and several mods claim it's racist, while many of us do not buy that it was. Let's put it up for public opinion because the second thing I'm hearing is that our perspective is irrelevant.

    Can you please show us this as well? Maybe we've all been taken for a ride, and missed it.

    What does this mean exactly? What was it that he did? We keep being told he's done something grave but never given any specifics. I'm going to assume I'm naive on this one as well.

    Was he told why his ban was extended a month when he was unable to post? It either was for something specific, or what you're communicating is that you made a judgement in error the first time and then extended it when his month was up. If your judgement was wrong then, is it even remotely possible that it's wrong on the initial ban?

    It's not inaccurate to suggest that a certain mod had influence in the extension and the subforum ban when another mod
    specifically said that was the case.

    It's not inaccurate to suggest that mods make errors in judgement too. You're all human as well.

    Again, can we see it in context? Where did this happen?

    And here again I ask, what makes you believe skin color was the motivation and not the action?
     
  20. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    #145 dark knight, May 19, 2016
    Last edited: May 19, 2016
  21. BobanFan

    BobanFan Member+

    Jun 28, 2007
    Club:
    AC Milan
    If Sal doesn't come back we can't bang his mom.

    Do the right thing.
     
  22. meazza

    meazza Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    It's obvious the mod injected personal bias into the decision which is the complete opposite of what a good moderator does.
     
    Calcio Pauly repped this.
  23. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I understand that you have that POV, but the use of the terminology to describe the Black population is racist. In any context.

    Did you read the last line of my post?

    I'm not sure what you mean by "yellow card worthy" when you did not get a yellow card for several posts. You also seem to be missing the point that mods really do try and err on the side of caution when handing out warnings or bans.

    I, too, have made a mistake like this. And I'm sure most mods have made this mistake. But we mods are not here just because we are long time posters or friends or such, we are here because we volunteered (this is unpaid work) and the judgement of our posting history is one that says, over the long run, we will be fair. We also know that not every poster will agree with this fairness. But I will not put words or reasons on another mod you have had an interaction with.

    I'm trying to figure out what debate is to be had. Seriously, what topic are you wishing to debate which you think has not been debated in this thread?
     
  24. meazza

    meazza Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Based on what? Something you saw on msnbc??
     
  25. meazza

    meazza Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    I'd also like to make a point, the accusation of racism is slanderous and should be used when it is clear. This isn't a college campus and we aren't going to start complaining of micro aggressions for example. Where then do you draw the line?
     

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