I see what you mean and based on what I have recently read about this tournament I fully agree with you!
Struggling to think back really. I think when you watch a match for the incidents (as I have been when writing my book on the Euros) that centre backs often fall under the radar. He played the pass which picked out Vahidin Musemic just before Dzajic's goal against England. Otherwise I didn't have a huge amount to note about his play. Personally I struggle to focus on too many things in a single watch of a match. I can either tell you the key moments, or I can tell you how individual players did. Doing more than than that is information overload. I was thinking that last night while watching Barcelona - Atleti.
Full report is here right? http://soccernostalgia.blogspot.com/2014/08/full-magazines-part-three.html
1969 Adamec, Jozef (Spartak Trnava, Czechoslovakia) Beckenbauer, Franz (Bayern Munich, Germany) Best, George (Manchester United, Northern Ireland) Bonev, Hristo (Lokomotiv Plovdiv , Bulgaria) Bremner, Billy (Leeds United, Scotland) Challe, Roberto (Universitario, Peru) Chumpitaz, Héctor (Universitario, Peru) Cruyff, Johan (Ajax, Netherlands) da Guia, Ademir (Palmieras) Edu (Santos, Brazil) Giles, Johnny (Leeds United, Ireland) Hurst, Geoff (West Ham, England) Jairzinho (Botafogo, Brazil) Kindvall, Ove (Feyenoord, Sweden) Moore, Bobby (West Ham, England) Müller, Gerd (Bayern Munich, Germany) Pele (Santos, Brazil) Riva, Gigi (Caligiari, Italy) Rivellino (Corinthians, Brazil) Rivera, Gianni (AC Milan, Italy) Schnellinger, Karl-Heinz (AC Milan, Germany) Tostão (Cruzeiro, Brazil) van Hanegem, Wim (Feyenoord, Netherlands) Honorable Mention: Direcu Lopez, Wilson Piazza, Flavio, Felix, Paulo Cézar Lima, Gerson, Carlos Alberto Torres, Rildo, Clodoaldo, Dudu, Cesar Maluco, Julio Melendez, Silvio Marzolini, Juan Ramón Veron, Oscar Malbernat, Raul Madero, Luis Artime, Atilio Ancheta, Roberto Matosas, Ladislao Mazurkiewicz, Pedro Rocha, Elias Figueroa, Pablo León, Teófilo Cubillas, Nicolae Dobrin, Florea Dumitrache, Andrej Kvašňák, Ladislav Kuna, Tommy Svensson, Wilfried van Moer, Johan Devrindt, Dimitar Penev, Włodzimierz Lubański, Jack Charlton, Denis Law, Francis Lee, Martin Peters, Colin Bell, Alan Ball, Wolfgang Overath, Giancarlo De Sisti, Pierino Prati, Roberto Rosato, Vladimir Muntyan, Velibor Vasović, Piet Keizer, Rinus Israël If Tostao had not missed a fair portion of the Brazilian championships with an injury I would have him in the top three. I also gave Muller and Cruyff some consideration for top three. This is the first year where qualification for the world cup seemed like a very big deal for the football world. I was tough to figure out some of the stars for qualification from some of the smaller nations that impressed in qualifying, but it made the field far more diverse. Another competition I wanted to ask about was Intercontinental Champions Supercup. It was played in 1968 and 1969 by the champions of various leagues and competitions. https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercopa_de_Campeones_Intercontinentales_1968 https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercopa_de_Campeones_Intercontinentales_1969 I want to know if anyone had an idea of what type of importance clubs placed on it. In 68 Santos won, but they had already won everything else in Brazil and my rankings reflected that so the tournaments importance would not change my top 23. In 69 Penarol won it over Racing, Estudientes, and Santos. If all the teams took the tournament seriously and it was held in high prestige I might consider looking harder for a place for Rocha and Figueroa in the top 23.
I read somewhere that Figueroa was rated as the best player in the uruguayan league the years 1967 and 1968. I don't know how exactly is that info, but could push him into the HM at least.
This is not criticism but I am just curious: What did you impress (most) about Pelé in the year 1969? Which games impressed you? As you hint at, Tostao was on fire for the national team (10 goals in qualifiers). For Pelé there were some mixed reports throughout the year, compared to other years (there's something in it in his 'Pelé Albums' I remember). Personally I feel he can be top three, but also easily top 10 (or top 15 at worst). http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/pele-intlg.html For Rivera there is a real possibility (90% certain I'd say) that he was for his club actually better in the 1968 year (in Europe - the Cup Winners Cup - too). He did give one of the very best EC final performances in history, against a naive and somewhat knackered Ajax team. You also read such comments by himself isn't it @PDG1978 ? http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/rivera-intlg.html Luigi Riva is almost certainly a definite lock for top three - I've no questions about that.
England's next friendly happened to be against the Netherlands, I see now. http://www.rsssf.com/tablese/eng-intres60.html Turns out that I made a (brief) compilation of a 20 minutes ESPN highlights some years ago (which is imperfect).
Re Artime, he had a pretty good season, Palmeiras won a the Torneio Roberto Gomes Pedrosa (forerunner to Brazil Champs), he was very prolific in Brazil but could not find the exact goals for 69 as the figures I saw included 68, but it appears he was very prolific in the regiona league. He then moved to Uruguay, and in the same year was top scorer in the league with 24 goals and won the League title with Nacional. I think he desrves more than an HM and possibile top ten. Also Peter Zhekov as an HM, he won Bulgarian double and European Golden Boot at CSKA Sofia, lack of European competion would work agaisnt him given acheievements were all in Bulgarian league. Also Prati, the headline grabber was the hat trick in the final of the EC (still last man to do this) but he also scored a crucial away goal versus Celtic in the quarter finals for a 1-0 aggregate win, plus two in the first round second leg versus Malmo after Milan lost the first leg but came back to win 5-3 on aggregate, he was key in Milan's second EC win.
He was also very dangerous against Manchester United in the semi final. Maybe man of the match there too. He ended 8th in the Ballon d'Or. The glamour of Rivera overshadowed him (who was likely even better in 1968, as I said). Nereo Rocco once remarked (literally) that "it does not matter what one kicks. Ball, opponent - it is all the same." Over time he became in many ways both loved and notorious!!
He writes in his own autobiography ('My Life and the Beautiful Game'), end of 1969: "What was even more disturbing was that many newspapers wrote that whether I had myopia or not, or whether I had a serious disease or not, Saldanha was correct in dropping me from the team. They said I was in no condition to play in the World Cup matches, that I was past my prime, all burned out at twenty-nine years of age [...]" [he's born 23 October 1940] Then he took (as other players did) 3-6 months off to prepare for the tournament, with only playing matches when it fit into the CBF & national team scheme. This Saldanha was the same man, as Pelé writes, who selected six Santos players for his qualification campaign (two from Cruzeiro; one each from Sao Paulo, Fluminense and Botafogo). "We were playing together as a team, and rarely did Saldanha make substitutions." Note: this is not criticism - it is just curiosity because I've seen Pelé for 1969 placed as high as #1 but also outside top 10 (knowing the mixed reviews and polarizing views).
Yep agree re Prati versus Man Utd, he was key in the later stages of the EC with strong games in quarters, semis and finals and would make my top ten for this year given he was along with Rivera the main guy in the EC win.
Re Pelé, I think placed #1 in a lot of people's mind as this was the year he achieved his 1000th goal to huge fanfair, for these 1000 goals, they did however inlcude, friendlies, goals in kick abouts in the park and training, and maybe subbuteo also. The reality was he was no where near the level of the late 50s / early 60s and there was no major competition like a year later in 1970.
The top three was tough this year. I agree with your assessment that Rivera may have been better the season before but did not get the attention because he was not doing it in the European Cup. I also agree that Riva is the one inclusion that really stands out, fantastic at both domestic and international level. When I started the year Tostao was in my head as a sure top three candidate for his great performances with Brazil, and seeing Cruzeiro had a very strong year winning their state league undefeated and only missing out on being Brazilian Champions for a second time in the decade by goal differential. But when I started going through the lineups results for the Brazilian Championships I saw that he only played the first 5 games of a 16 game tournament (ended up being 20 games for Cruziero as they made the final group). He also only played 21 of 30 games in the Campeonato Minero (state league) and had failed to defend his recognition of three consecutive top scorers. Now when he played he scored at a very high rate, 4 in 5 in the Brazilian Championship and 18 in 21 in the state league, but he did not feel like the shoe in I thought he would be. I do not have specific games for Pele but more the general impression that he had a revival in 68 and 69 after poor (by his standards) injury riddled years in 66 and 67. His performance for the national team was excellent as well, combining with Tostao to form a fantastic attacking duo in 69, where as the first half of 68 he was left out of the team in favor of Tostao, and then was recalled at Tostao's expense as they initially were not played together but seem as the same position and paired with a more inside the box striker like Flavio or Natal. In 69 he scored 26 in 25 in the paulista and was top scorer and champion and scored 12 in 12 in the Brazilian Championships where Santos had a middling campaign. I really wanted a Brazilian rep as 69 was such a strong year for them going 9-0-0 with 30 goals scored and only 6 goals allowed. The other stars of the team did not have a complete year. Tostao as mentioned missed parts of the club year, Jairzinho had a middling year with Botafogo who were not competitive in the Brazilian Championships and did not win the Rio state league, Gerson played half the year with Botafogo and was then transferred to Sao Paulo where he played the Brazilian Championships, neither campaigns were successful. Rivellino seemed to have the most successful club year as Corinthians led both the Sao Paulo state league and Brazilian Championships for most of the competitions before finishing 2nd and third respectively, both by a single point. He had his best goalscoring numbers as well including a famous performance beating Santos 5-1 in the Brazilian Championships where he scored twice. He was however dropped from the national team in favor of Edu in 69 after playing almost every game in 68. So basically I agree with your assessment that Pele is not a lock for the top three could be anywhere from #2 to #10. The more I look at things the more Muller season looks really good as well.
Tostao did have a very strong international year though, 3 at home and away versus Venezuela, 2 home and away to Colombia in the WC qualifers, plus goals in wins over Peru and England, 12 in all for the calendar year.
His scoring record - just his numbers - is certainly more outstanding. He was directly involved in the other goal against England if I'm not mistaken (giving the winning assist). Pelé had also one more penalty than him. But of course, Tostao got injured in September 1969 which affected his level and number of appearances for the remainder. Brazil played three top 50 opponents in 1969 (Elo rank). Pelé and Tostao played unless stated otherwise. Peru and England games were friendlies. Peru #47 (home) : 2 - 1 (goals Jairzinho and Gerson) Peru #47 (home) : 3 - 2 (goals Pelé, Tostao, Edu) England #01 (home) : 2 - 1 (goal Tostao, Jairzinho) Paraguay #23 (away) : 3 - 0 (goals Jairzinho, Edu + o.g.) Paraguay #24 (home) : 1 - 0 (goal Pelé) Brazil was already qualified though in the last qualifying game - by a comfortable margin - and the 1-0 scoreline reflects it. Other opponents were ranked 100+ (Venezuela) and 80+ (Colombia). Taken together Tostao scored 12 goals in 9 games, Pelé scored 7 goals (1PK) in 9 games. edit: Tostao had indeed the assist in the England game. 4 assists in 9 games (first game Peru, England and both Venezuela games). Pelé had 5 assists in 9 games (2nd game Peru, both Venezuela games, Paraguay, Colombia).
The Supercopa de Campeones was considered as unimportant, I read about it (can't remember where) and it was completely snobbed by the European sides. It was considered on par with a friendly tournament by Real Madrid and Internazionale. On the South American sidw it was considered a bit more important, but not by much. I wouldn't give it much weight.
Yes, that is what I thought as a range. Scoring was a big part of his game and midfield play/anchoring not necessarily his strength; he used to be the dominant Brazil NT goalscorer by far. But there are still aspects that he (as an individual) had over his compatriot Tostao so somewhere between #3 and #10 indeed, I thought (maybe #2, or #1 with strong reasoning). The mystery is that despite scoring well (again) on the domestic level - approaching previous numbers - apparently many thought he missed that spark or extra gear (per clipped articles in his own 'Pelé Albums', autobiography, or other newspaper archives). That isn't entirely impossible of course, as we've seen with Ronaldinho in 2006-07, but it still complicates the puzzle in this case.
Revised Summary 1960 Charles, John (Juventus) Cubilla, Luis (Penarol, Uruguay) Di Stefano, Alfredo (Real Madrid, Spain) Garrincha (Botafogo, Brazil) Gento, Francisco (Real Madrid, Spain) Hamrin, Kurt (Fiorentina) Ivanov, Valentin (Torpedo Moscow, USSR) Julinho (Palmieras, Brazil) Kopa, Raymund (Stade Reims, France) Kostić, Bora (Red Star Belgrade, Yugoslavia) Martinez, Eugelo (Barcelona, Spain) Netto, Igor (Spartak Moscow, Soviet Union) Pele (Santos, Brazil) Pepe (Santos, Brazil) Puskás, Ferenc (Real Madrid) Quarentinha (Botafogo, Brazil) Sanfilippo, Jose (San Lorenzo, Argentina) Seeler, Uwe (Hamburg, Germany) Sívori, Omar (Juventus) Spencer, Alberto (Penarol) Suarez, Luis (Barcelona, Spain) Waldo (Fluminense, Brazil) Yashin, Lev (Dimano Moscow, Soviet Union) 1. Ferenc Puskas 2. Omar Sivori 3. Lev Yashin 4. Alfredo Di Stefano 5. Uwe Seeler 6. Luis Suarez 1961 Amarildo (Botafogo, Brazil) Blanchflower, Danny (Tottenham, Northern Ireland) Charlton, Bobby (Manchester United, Engalnd) Coluna, Mario (Benfica, Portugal) Corbatta, Oreste (Racing, Argentina) Coutinho (Santos, Brazil) Didi (Botafogo, Brazil) Di Stefano, Alfredo (Real Madrid, Spain) Garrincha (Botafogo, Brazil) Germano (Benfica, Portugal) Gonclaves, Nestor (Penarol, Uruguay) Greaves, Jimmy (Chelsea, England) Haynes, Johnny (Fulham, England) Joya, Juan (Penarol) Mackay, Dave (Tottenham, Scotland) Masopust, Josef (Dukla Prague, Czechoslovakia) Pele (Santos, Brazil) Puskás, Ferenc (Real Madrid, Spain) Santos, Nilton (Botafogo, Brazil) Seeler, Uwe (Hamburg, Germany) Sívori, Omar (Juventus, Italy) Spencer, Alberto (Penarol) Suarez, Luis (Barcelona, Spain) 1. Pele 2. Omar Sivori 3. Garrincha 4. Alberto Spencer 5. Juan Joya 6. Danny Blanchflower 1962 Altafini, Jose (AC Milan, Italy) Amarildo (Botafogo, Brazil) Charlton, Bobby (Manchester United, Engalnd) Coluna, Mario (Benfica, Portugal) Coutinho (Santos, Brazil) Didi (Botafogo, Brazil) Di Stefano, Alfredo (Real Madrid, Spain) Eusebio (Benfica, Portugal) Garrincha (Botafogo, Brazil) Germano (Benfica, Portugal) Ivanov, Valentin (Torpedo Moscow, USSR) Masopust, Josef (Dukla Prague, Czechoslovakia) Pele (Santos, Brazil) Puskás, Ferenc (Real Madrid, Spain) Sanchez, Leonel (Universidad de Chile, Chile) Santos, Djalma (Palmieras, Brazil) Santos, Nilton (Botafogo, Brazil) Schnellinger, Karl-Heinz (FC Klon, Germany) Šekularac, Dragoslav (Red Star Belgrade, Yugoslavia) Tichy, Lajos (Honved, Hungary) Spencer, Alberto (Penarol) Voronin, Valery (Torpedo Moscow, USSR) Zito (Santos, Brazil) 1. Garrincha 2. Pele 3. Josef Masopust 4. Coutinho 1963 Altafini, Jose (AC Milan) Amancio (Real Madrid, Spain) Baxter, Jim (Rangers, Scotland) Coluna, Mario (Benfica, Portugal) Corso, Mario (Internazionale, Italy) da Costa, Jair (Internazionale) da Guia, Ademir (Palmieras) Eusebio (Benfica, Portugal) Greaves, Jimmy (Tottenham, England) Jones, Cliff (Tottenham, Wales) Law, Denis (Manchester United, Scotland) Lima (Santos, Brazil) Mackay, Dave (Tottenham, Scotland) Maldini, Cesar (AC Milan, Italy) Masopust, Josef (Dukla Prague, Czechoslovakia) Pele (Santos, Brazil) Pepe (Santos, Brazil) Puskás, Ferenc (Real Madrid, Spain) Rivera, Gianni (AC Milan, Italy) Santos, Djalma (Palmieras, Brazil) Suarez, Luis (Internazionale, Spain) Trapattoni, Giovanni (AC Milan, Itlay) Yashin, Lev (Dimano Moscow, Soviet Union) 1. Pele 2. Gianni Rivera 3. Jimmy Greaves 4. Eusebio 1964 Albert, Florian (Ferencvaros, Hungary) Amancio (Real Madrid, Spain) Bulgarelli, Giacomo (Bologna, Italy) Carrizo, Amadeo (River Plate, Argentina) Corso, Mario (Internazionale, Italy) da Costa, Jair (Internazionale) Facchetti, Giacinto (Internazionale, Italy) Greaves, Jimmy (Tottenham, England) Gerson (Botafogo, Brazil) Haller, Helmut (Bologna, Germany) Hunt, Roger (Liverpool England) Jairzinho (Botafogo, Brazil) Law, Denis (Manchester United, Scotland) Nielsen, Harald (Bologna) Mazzola, Sandro (Internazionale, Italy) Moore, Bobby (West Ham, England) Onega, Ermindo (River Plate, Argentina) Pele (Santos, Brazil) Puskás, Ferenc (Real Madrid) Rattin, Antonio (Boca Junior, Argentina) Seeler, Uwe (Hamburg, Germany) Suarez, Luis (Internazionale, Spain) Voronin, Valery (Torpedo Moscow, USSR) 1. Pele 2. Luis Suarez 3. Denis Law 1965 Albert, Florian (Ferencvaros, Hungary) Asparukhov, Georgi (SP Levski, Bulgaria) Best, George (Manchester United, Northern Ireland) Charlton, Bobby (Manchester United, Engalnd) Charlton, Jackie (Leeds United, Engalnd) Coluna, Mario (Benfica, Portugal) da Costa, Jair (Internazionale) da Guia, Ademir (Palmieras, Brazil) Delgado, Jose Ramos (River Plate, Argentina) Eusebio (Benfica, Portugal) Facchetti, Giacinto (Internazionale, Italy) Joya, Juan (Penarol) Law, Denis (Manchester United, Scotland) Matosas, Roberto (River Plate) Mazzola, Sandro (Internazionale, Italy) Moore, Bobby (West Ham, England) Pele (Santos, Brazil) Rattin, Antonio (Boca Junior, Argentina) Rocha, Pedro (Penarol, Uruguay) Sanchez, Leonel (Universidad de Chile, Chile) Suarez, Luis (Internazionale, Spain) Torres, Jose (Benfica, Portugal) Voronin, Valery (Torpedo Moscow, USSR) 1. Eusebio 2. Pele 3. Luis Suarez 4. Giacinto Facchetti 5. Pedro Rocha 6. Sandro Mazzola 1966 Albert, Florian (Ferencvaros, Hungary) Amancio (Real Madrid, Spain) Ball, Alan (Blackpool, England) Beckenbauer, Franz (Bayern Munich, Germany) Bene, Frenec (Ujpest, Hungary) Best, George (Manchester United, Northern Ireland) Charlton, Bobby (Manchester United, Engalnd) Coluna, Mario (Benfica, Portugal) Eusebio (Benfica, Portugal) Farkas, Janos (Vasas, Hungary) Haller, Helmut (Bologna, Germany) Joya, Juan (Penarol) Marzolini, Silvio (Boca Junior, Argentina) Mazurkiewicz, Ladislao (Penarol, Uruguay) Moore, Bobby (West Ham, England) Perfumo, Roberto (Racing, Argentina) Rocha, Pedro (Penraol, Uruguay) Spencer, Alberto (Penarol) Torres, Jose (Benfica, Portugal) Tostão (Cruzeiro, Brazil) Vasović, Velibor (Partizan Belgrade, Yugoslavia) Voronin, Valery (Torpedo Moscow, USSR) Yashin, Lev (Dimano Moscow, Soviet Union) 1. Bobby Charlton 2. Eusebio 3. Alberto Spencer 4. Bobby Moore 5. Pedro Rocha 6. Tostao 1967 Albert, Florian (Ferencvaros, Hungary) Artime, Luis (Independiente, Argentina) Beckenbauer, Franz (Bayern Munich, Germany) Best, George (Manchester United, Northern Ireland) Charlton, Bobby (Manchester United, Engalnd) Chislenko, Igor (Dinamo Moscow, Soviet Union) Cruyff, Johan (Ajax, Netherlands) da Guia, Ademir (Palmieras, Brazil) Facchetti, Giacinto (Internazionale, Italy) Farkas, Janos (Vasas, Hungary) Gemmell, Tommy (Celtic, Scotland) Johnstone, Jimmy (Celtic, Scotland) Law, Denis (Manchester United, Scotland) Marcos, Ruben (Universidad de Chile, Chile) Mazzola, Sandro (Internazionale, Italy) McNeill, Billy (Celtic, Scotland) Müller, Gerd (Bayern Munich, Germany) Perfumo, Roberto (Racing, Argentina) Riva, Luigi (Cagliari, Italy) Rocha, Pedro (Penraol, Uruguay) Tostão (Cruzeiro, Brazil) Urruzmendi, Jose (Nacional, Uruguay) Veron, Juan Ramón (Estudientes) 1. Jimmy Johnstone 2. Florian Albert 3. Pedro Rocha 4. George Best 5. Bobby Charlton 1968 Adamec, Jozef (Spartak Trnava, Czechoslovakia) Albrecht, Jose Rafael (San Lorenzo, Argentina) Amancio (Real Madrid, Spain) Bell, Colin (Manchester City, England) Best, George (Manchester United, Northern Ireland) Charlton, Bobby (Manchester United, Engalnd) Cruyff, Johan (Ajax, Netherlands) Domenghini, Angelo (Internazionale, Italy) Džajić, Dragan (Red Star Belgrade, Yugoslavia) Edu (Santos, Brazil) Eusebio (Benfica, Portugal) Figueroa, Elias (Penarol, Chile) Gerson (Botafogo, Brazil) Guerreiro, Toninho (Santos, Brazil) Jairzinho (Botafogo, Brazil) Mazzola, Sandro (Internazionale, Italy) Pele (Santos, Brazil) Petković, Ilija (OFK Beograd, Yugoslavia) Pirri (Real Madrid, Spain) Rivera, Gianni (AC Milan, Italy) Spencer, Alberto (Penarol) Torres, Carlos Alberto (Santos, Brazil) Veron, Juan Ramón (Estudientes) 1. George Best 2. Dragan Džajić 3. Juan Ramon Veron 4. Jairzinho 1969 Adamec, Jozef (Spartak Trnava, Czechoslovakia) Artime, Luis (Palmieras/Nacional) Beckenbauer, Franz (Bayern Munich, Germany) Best, George (Manchester United, Northern Ireland) Bonev, Hristo (Lokomotiv Plovdiv , Bulgaria) Bremner, Billy (Leeds United, Scotland) Challe, Roberto (Universitario, Peru) Chumpitaz, Héctor (Universitario, Peru) Cruyff, Johan (Ajax, Netherlands) da Guia, Ademir (Palmieras) Edu (Santos, Brazil) Giles, Johnny (Leeds United, Ireland) Jairzinho (Botafogo, Brazil) Kindvall, Ove (Feyenoord, Sweden) Moore, Bobby (West Ham, England) Müller, Gerd (Bayern Munich, Germany) Pele (Santos, Brazil) Riva, Gigi (Caligiari, Italy) Rivellino (Corinthians, Brazil) Rivera, Gianni (AC Milan, Italy) Schnellinger, Karl-Heinz (AC Milan, Germany) Tostão (Cruzeiro, Brazil) van Hanegem, Wim (Feyenoord, Netherlands) 1. Gigi Riva 2. Gianni Rivera 3. Tostao 4. Gerd Muller 5. Pele 6. Johan Cruyff
I don't disagree with it, but it's funny that there are two Italians in the first two positions in 1969 while in 1968 (the year in which Italy actually wins the European Championship) there's no Italian in the top 5.
Most things I have seen indicate the Italian national played better in 69 than 68 and an Italian team won the EC in 69.