2nd Round results: Tuesday, May 19 Michigan Bucks (PDL) 0-2 Portland Timbers 2 (USL) Wednesday, May 20 Pittsburgh Riverhounds (USL) 3-0 West Virginia Chaos (PDL) Wilmington Hammerheads (USL) 1-1 (pks 3-5) Chattanooga FC (NPSL) Richmond Kickers (USL) 2-0 Virginia Beach City FC (NPSL) Rochester Rhinos (USL) 1-0 Greater Binghamton FC Thunder (NPSL) Lansing United (NPSL) 0-1 Louisville City FC (USL) Reading United A.C. (PDL) 0-3 Harrisburg City Islanders (USL) Charleston Battery (USL) 1-0 Miami United (NPSL) Charlotte Independence (USL) 4-1 Upward Star (NPSL) Long Island Rough Riders (PDL) 0-1 Real Monarchs SLC (USL) Jersey Express (PDL) 1-0 New York Red Bulls II (USL) Tulsa Roughnecks (USL) 1-0 Seacoast United Phantoms (PDL) Saint Louis FC (USL) 2-1 (aet) Des Moines Menace (PDL) Midland/Odessa Sockers (PDL) 1-3 Oklahoma City Energy (USL) Austin Aztex (USL) 2-0 Laredo Heat (PDL) Colorado Springs Switchbacks (USL) 2-1 Harpo’s FC (USSSA) PSA Elite (USASA) 2-1 Orange County Blues (USL) Arizona United SC (USL) 0-3 Chula Vista FC (USASA) LA Galaxy II (USL) 1-2 Ventura County Fusion (PDL) Sacramento Republic FC (USL) 4-2 Sonoma County Sol (NPSL) Seattle Sounders 2 (USL) 4-2 (aet) Kitsap Pumas (PDL) Advancement by affiliation: USASA 2-0 USL 16-5 PDL 2-9 NPSL 1-6 USSSA 0-1 Home teams went 13-8 on advancement.
3rd Round: Home team first, times are ET Wednesday, May 27 Seattle Sounders 2 (USL) v. Portland Timbers 2 (USL) 4:00 pm Pittsburgh Riverhounds (USL) v. Tampa Bay Rowdies (NASL) 7:00 pm Richmond Kickers (USL) v. Jacksonville Armada (NASL) 7:00 pm Harrisburg City Islanders (USL) v. Rochester Rhinos (USL) 7:00 pm Chattanooga FC (NPSL) v. Atlanta Silverbacks (NASL) 7:30 pm Indy Eleven (NASL) v. Louisville City FC (USL) 7:30 pm Charleston Battery (USL) v. Fort Lauderdale Strikers (NASL) 7:30 pm Carolina RailHawks (NASL) v. Charlotte Independence (USL) 7:30 pm New York Cosmos (NASL) v. Jersey Express (PDL) 8:00 pm Saint Louis FC (USL) v. Minnesota United (NASL) 8:00 pm Tulsa Roughnecks (USL) v. Oklahoma City Energy (USL) 8:00 pm San Antonio Scorpions (NASL) v. Austin Aztex (USL) 8:30 pm Real Monarchs SLC (USL) v. Colorado Springs Switchbacks (USL) 9:00 pm Ventura County Fusion (PDL) v. PSA Elite (USASA) 10:00 pm Sacramento Republic FC (USL) v. Chula Vista FC (USASA) 10:30 pm
I believe that some people focus too much on trivial stuff and then couch that attention to trivial stuff in "Well, it can't hurt." If it doesn't move the needle, stop wasting the 1s and 0s lamenting the fact it doesn't exist. The bracket is not the frigging problem, people. It's a frigging soccer tournament on weeknights in the summer and most of the games feature teams 95% of people have never heard of. The games are in a compressed time frame that makes them a tough sell in most places, there are only a handful of notable results (and some of those happen after 10pm ET), very little television, no real perceived prestige for winning the thing, and it's almost always an MLS vs. MLS affair when we get to the end. All of those things way outweigh having a frigging bracket so that some people can say, "Look, it's like the NCAA Tournament, except it's not on TV, no one in your office wants to bet on it, you have no idea who Chula Vista FC is, no one could tell you one memorable moment from tournaments past and you're probably not going to be able to watch the final, which will be between two MLS teams that aren't from where you live. But, hey, a bracket! Baby steps."
So we'll put you in the "I'd rather they not plan the tournament from day one in a bracket type of format and just trickle out the "path" to the Cup as the tournament plays out" camp ... got it! I'm not sure, but I think you're the only one bringing up NCAA or saying that "the problem is we don't have a bracket" ... good work putting words into peoples mouths/comments! Good work.
Sarcasm ... THAT'S THE BIG PROBLEM WITH THIS TOURNAMENT! A GAME PLAYED AT 1 IN THE AFTERNOON AGAINST 2 RESERVE TEAMS IS KEEPING EVERYONE AWAY AND KEEPING THIS TOURNAMENT FROM BECOMING THE FA CUP ...... AAAAAHHHHH!!!!!!! That was my best "Kenn".
Does anyone have a list of players serving suspensions in the USOC? Really I'm just trying to find out if Mastroeni's and Burch's red cards last season got them just the standard 1 game suspension or if they got additional punishment.
If you gave most people who do NCAA Tournament brackets a matching quiz to match the teams seeded 13 or worse to their conferences, I'm guessing most of them wouldn't do well. The U.S. Open Cup has less recognizable clubs, but I think most club names include the location. NCAA school names like Creighton, Mercer, Howard, Weber State, and many others don't include locations. The "two MLS teams that aren't from where you live" shouldn't be a problem because most people who watch the NCAA Final won't be near either school and for many of them their favorite school won't have played either finalist that season. In MLS all clubs meet at least once a season. I would like the U.S. Open Cup to have a bracket even if it wouldn't make the tournament more popular.
Some people remember when an unnamed MLS team from our nation's capital broke a few kitchen items in the locker room after they lost to a lower level team but you're right, those memories are few and far between
If this was Minor League Baseball, they'd call it a "businessman's special", and would get a decent turnout.
In most countries the cup has a open draw after each round. Most leagues around the world dont have the same travel problems than the USA has. so to keep midweek games localised to the best of the organisers ability makes perfect sense to me. The T2 vs S2 game at 1pm on a Wednesday is stupid alright, im a season ticket holder for T2 and wont be able to make it. I could prob make a evening game but like 90% of people ill be busy on a weekday afternoon.
So, does the Open Cup need a rule next year, that all matches need to be played in the evening (or in special cases like a previous year, on weekends)? This is one of the things that need to "shake out" when you invite the professional B-team affiliates; and maybe even amateur C-team affiliates.
Here's the 2nd round update of my ever popular* league ELO rankings. *not at all true Some basic info, for those who want it: 1. These rankings use all USOC games since 1996 to determine the relative strengths of the leagues. The names used below just represent the current names of leagues at that level. In reality the leagues have changed around a lot, and what is now NASL used to be USL D-1, and the A League before it. Similarly for all the other levels. 2. There are bound to be mistakes back in the history, but the beauty of ELO rankings is that they are self-correcting over time, so the "actual strengths" probably aren't too far off from this right now, even with errors in older competitions. 3. The actual results used are as follows: a. Game finishes in regulation with a result: goals scored b. Game finishes after extra time with a result: goals scored c. Game goes to penalty kicks: goals scored before the penalty kicks. The game is "recorded" as a tie. 4. A home team has its rating raised by 100, and the change in ratings for each of the teams is calculated based on the result of the game, and the relative difference between the two ratings. This means that currently, we would expect an NASL team hosting an MLS team to be slightly in favor of the MLS team, but not significantly so. 5. The average change in score for any individual game is about 7. This means that one league goes up by 7, and the other down by 7. 6. There is no way to account for the fact that many MLS teams play 'B' or 'C' sides in the first few rounds they participate. I can only base it on the teams fielded. RoundMLSNASLUSLPDLNPSLUSASA/etc 2014177416401576137713331301 R1177416401576137313141324 R2177416401569135613051357 USASA continues to perform quite well, and now has jumped above both PDL and NPSL on the backs of some really good performances from Chula Vista and PSA Elite. Basically all of that gain came at the expense of PDL and NPSL, with USL staying pretty much level this round.
Here's the 3rd round update of my ever popular* league ELO rankings. *not at all true Some basic info, for those who want it: 1. These rankings use all USOC games since 1996 to determine the relative strengths of the leagues. The names used below just represent the current names of leagues at that level. In reality the leagues have changed around a lot, and what is now NASL used to be USL D-1, and the A League before it. Similarly for all the other levels. 2. There are bound to be mistakes back in the history, but the beauty of ELO rankings is that they are self-correcting over time, so the "actual strengths" probably aren't too far off from this right now, even with errors in older competitions. 3. The actual results used are as follows: a. Game finishes in regulation with a result: goals scored b. Game finishes after extra time with a result: goals scored c. Game goes to penalty kicks: goals scored before the penalty kicks. The game is "recorded" as a tie. 4. A home team has its rating raised by 100, and the change in ratings for each of the teams is calculated based on the result of the game, and the relative difference between the two ratings. This means that currently, we would expect an NASL team hosting an MLS team to be slightly in favor of the MLS team, but not significantly so. 5. The average change in score for any individual game is about 7. This means that one league goes up by 7, and the other down by 7. 6. There is no way to account for the fact that many MLS teams play 'B' or 'C' sides in the first few rounds they participate. I can only base it on the teams fielded. RoundMLSNASLUSLPDLNPSLUSASA/etc 2014177416401576137713331301 R1177416401576137313141324 R2177416401569135613051357 R3177415861633134313021363 NASL had a horrific round, while USL cleaned up nicely, almost completely swapping spots in the ratings. PSA Elite from the USASA moves on to the 4th round, while the remaining PDL and NPSL teams all crashed out. With no more PDL or NPSL teams left, their ratings are final for this year.
S1 and T1 both had home games tonight... With a 1PM start there was at least a chance of people attending or watching the stream.
That's fair. Some crowds from yesterday: 10,018 in Sacramento 7,134 in Indianapolis 2,584 in Tulsa 2,579 in St. Louis 2,531 in Chattanooga 2,000 in San Antonio 1,737 in Seattle 1,551 in Charleston 1,394 in New York 1,276 in Richmond No numbers for games in Pittsburgh, Harrisburg, Cary, Sandy or Ventura Visiting teams advanced in 8 of the 15 ties yesterday, meaning home teams have advanced in 38 of 59 ties to this point (64%). Obviously, yesterday was not a good day for the NASL on many fronts. Their only advancements were against amateurs and only Indianapolis drew a crowd. The PDL and NPSL are out. PSA Elite gets the bonus for being the last amateurs standing, and will immediately be put forward as a potential NASL expansion team. Records by Level (W-L-T | Advance (Adv.Pct.) US Club Soccer 0-1-0 | 0 (.000) USSSA 2-1-1 | 3 (.750) USASA 5-6-4 | 5 (.333) NPSL 3-12-5 | 8 (.400) PDL 11-16-5 | 13 (.406) USL 27-8-2 | 28 (.757) NASL 2-6-1 | 2 (.222) USL is now 8-3-1 (with 9 advancements in 12 matchups) vs. the NASL all time.
Fourth Round Home team first, times are ET Tuesday, June 16 Philadelphia Union (MLS) vs Rochester Rhinos (USL) 7:30 pm NY Red Bulls (MLS) vs Atlanta Silverbacks (NASL) 7:30 pm Sporting Kansas City (MLS) vs Saint Louis FC (USL) 8:30 pm Chicago Fire (MLS) vs Louisville City FC (USL) 8:30 pm FC Dallas (MLS) vs OKC Energy FC (USL) 9:00 pm Colorado Rapids (MLS) vs Colorado Springs Switchbacks (USL) 9:00 pm Real Salt Lake (MLS) vs Seattle Sounders 2 (USL) 10:00 pm San Jose Earthquakes (MLS) vs Sacramento Republic FC (USL) 10:30 pm Seattle Sounders (MLS) vs Portland Timbers (MLS) 10:30 pm Wednesday, June 17 Pittsburgh Riverhounds (USL) vs DC United (MLS) 7:00 pm Richmond Kickers (USL) vs Columbus Crew (MLS) 7:00 pm New York Cosmos (NASL) vs NY City (MLS) 7:30 pm Charleston Battery (USL) vs Orlando City (MLS) 7:30 pm New England Revolution (MLS) vs Charlotte Independence (USL) 7:30 pm Houston Dynamo (MLS) vs Austin Aztex (USL) 9:00 pm LA Galaxy (MLS) vs PSA Elite (USASA) 10:30 pm
Kenn, correct me if I'm wrong, but the 3 NASL wins came vs VSI Tampa Bay, Charlotte Eagles and Dayton Dutch Lions ... so 0 wins vs existing USL teams. Not sure what to make of that if it's true.
No, you're correct. I just don't think there's anything to be made of it. NASL teams have also lost to Charlotte (San Antonio in 2012) and Orlando (no longer in USL). Anything can happen in a one-off situation. That one's obviously interesting. That one's VERY interesting, especially considering the Rapids' vehement dismissal of CS. That should be a big one. Always interesting. Obviously, they've already paid off the refs to prevent the Juggernaut That Is The New York Cosmos from winning. Austin coach Paul Dalglish played for Houston, which is just one of the subplots. Potential Disney Movie of the round, seems like.
It also looks like no current USL team had beaten a NASL team prior to this year ... the 2 wins referenced above came from the Charlotte Eagles and Orlando City ... neither in the USL today. Interesting stats! So basically nothing can be taken from anything prior to this year because teams don't exist at the levels they played? Either way ... will be interesting to see what happens going forward with how the Open Cup handles expansion at all levels and how the format adapts to compensate for that (or if USL gets D2 status how they handle that within the current format). Someone who shouldn't be mentioned due to a aluminum film covering his head tweeted something about NASL getting a raw deal on the "draws". Yeah, because of the 7 head to head match's, NASL hosted only 3 ... so all 3 USL road teams found a way to win, but the 4 NASL teams couldn't ... they were set up to fail. Anyways ... if they are both D2 then how do you decide when teams enter the field? Will be interesting (for dorks like us).
At the time Charlotte and Orlando were playing under USL "rules," so to speak. Their budgets, in other words player acquisitions, were geared for USL play, not the leagues they respectively play in. You're correct, no current USL team had defeated a NASL side. But this is not the same as saying a USL side had defeated a NASL side.