WPSL 2014

Discussion in 'US Women's Lower Divisions' started by SiberianThunderT, Feb 17, 2014.

  1. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fredericksburg FC NEW Minor League Program's WPSL and NPSL Tryouts - January 4, 2015Fredericksburg FC has merged with the successful RVA FC minor league brand - join one of FFC's WPSL or NPSL teams for the 2015 Summer Season! Tryouts are on Sunday, January 4. Women (WPSL): 12-2pm; Men (NPSL): 2-4pm. Register for $35 and join FFC. Tryouts will be held at Fredericksburg Field House. Register now! Roster includes Ages 16 & UP, Collegiate, Ex-Collegiate and former Professionals.
    More Info - Register.
     
  2. Game-Ball

    Game-Ball Member

    Jan 17, 2014
    Club:
    Ottawa
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Are the WPSL and W League the only good quality leagues for women ? Where do all the college players compete in the summer ?

    For example in the state of Ohio with population 11,500,000 I can only find three WPSL teams and one W League club.
     
  3. StarCityFan

    StarCityFan BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 2, 2001
    Greenbelt, MD
    Club:
    Washington Freedom
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There are lower-level leagues as well, but they're local/regional. In my area the next level down would be the Washington-Area Women's Soccer League.
     
  4. Game-Ball

    Game-Ball Member

    Jan 17, 2014
    Club:
    Ottawa
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    I bet there is some good talent in the local and regional leagues who prefer to play close to home. I also think these leagues are better positioned to develop the game for players and coaches but they need support.

    Example. Shutdown the three WPSL and one W League teams in Ohio and combine with the best regional clubs in the state to create a dominant league of ten.

    Everyone would benefit
    - low cost entry
    - less travel
    - build local support
    - stable , high quality league to attract "local" sponsors
    - a competitive league for young players to aspire to
    - a concentration of good players and coaches improves the game

    Instead of having three "partial" leagues each with a few good teams now you have a "super league" of ten close to home.

    A stable, quality league for motivated young adult women players ( 18 - 30+ ) returning from college or not is also a good learning environment for super talented 15 and 16 year old players. Participating in this league could be an authorised component for young, local ODP players ( age 15 - 18 ) and ODP coaches.

    As long as people promote nation wide or inter state amateur leagues like the WPSL and W League the talent pool will be spread out. I think this gets in the way of progressing the game and does nothing to build local support.
     
  5. SJJ

    SJJ Member

    Sep 20, 1999
    Royal Oak, MI, USA
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So, women's soccer leagues are supposed to stop at the state level???
     
  6. Game-Ball

    Game-Ball Member

    Jan 17, 2014
    Club:
    Ottawa
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Yes. In my opinion amateur leagues should stop at the state level.

    Instead of separating a few good players and playing in an inter-state league like WPSL or W League it would be best for these teams to remain in state and join the best local teams to create a league so there is a concentration of talent and a better environment for the development of the game.
     
  7. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Sorry, the notion that a single-state league will be better for development and have more concentrated talent is backwards. It seems to me that you're focused way too much on a state-wide world view. Ohio may have 11mil but that will in no way support a "dominant" league of any kind. There's a reason WPSL W-League teams seek super-regional and national competition - there should NOT be a void between "local" and "top flight" soccer, and WPSL/W-League fill that gap.

    Continuing on your Ohio example, you'd be forcing the four Division 2 teams to compete against six teams that would have otherwise been fully amateur, probably full with not just college but high school students as well. This is a step down in talent that would greatly water down those four Div2 teams, either because the players would disperse to the other six teams or just leave for a more competitive state like Cali or Texas. Yes, the other six teams might benefit slightly from those cast-offs, but the overall competitive quality would be dropping drastically from what the Div2 teams currently see. This would not be a "super league" in any sense of the word.

    Also, all of these are wrong:
    I don't see what you're saying with the national talent pool being "spread out". It's a national talent pool, it should cover the nation. Forcing statewide leagues to happen would be counterproductive, as then the ability to form strong teams falls apart. You should note that the talented ODP-quality players are already flourishing in the Div2 leagues, where there are a large number of fairly competitive teams. The "best local teams" are a step down from Div2 teams and should remain that way, mixing them will create a net loss of development potential.
     
  8. Game-Ball

    Game-Ball Member

    Jan 17, 2014
    Club:
    Ottawa
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    It sounds like you are saying ,

    WPSL is division 2.

    One W League team in the state of Ohio is enough.

    There is no more talent left in a state with 11,500,000.

    I think it is a waste of time, money, talent and development to remove these teams from the state.
     
  9. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    No, WPSL and W-League are both D2, NWSL is D1

    And I'm not saying there's no talent in the state - what I'm saying is that "talent" is tiered, and if you're assuming there's only "professional" and "high-school-accessible amateur" you're leaving out at least two levels in between. I don't know how many players would fit in those middle tiers out of Ohio's 11.5mil, but you can't eliminate the presence of those tiers in favor of an in-state league that would water down competition for players trying to climb the ladder. There aren't enough professional teams in the country for players to jump straight from high school to the pros, there has to be an in-between.

    Who said anything about pulling the existing WPSL/W-League teams out of Ohio altogether??
     
  10. Game-Ball

    Game-Ball Member

    Jan 17, 2014
    Club:
    Ottawa
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    You are over rating the quality of WPSL for sure and some of the W League.

    If there are 50 quality players in Ohio and another 50 very close behind then you have the basis for ten teams. The remaining 100 who make up the rosters will not be crap either.

    There is absolutely no need for 50 players to play outside the state in order to seek more competition and whatever else they think they will get.
     
  11. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    No, I'm really not. The top and bottom ends of WPSL may match the top and bottom ends of college teams but the middle is stronger (since WPSL is smaller than NCAA and draws on the college players that are serious enough to play through the summer) and the W-League is a step up from WPSL. Yes, the best college teams will beat the worst W-League teams, but that's not a fair, apples-to-apples comparison.

    You still are being really fuzzy on what you define as "quality". To me, "quality" is a player that would start on a relatively strong NCAA-DI team. Maybe your cutoff is lower, but that creates different issues, as I'll get into later. Let me explain my logic a bit better first.

    As I mentioned before, there is a gap between the "good high school players" and the pros. My talent tiers look like this:
    1. National/International players
    2. Professional-level players/superstar college players
    3. Semipro players/great college player (my "quality") and experienced amateurs/good college players/superstar high school players (my "very close behind" - close enough to not be a separate tier in my book)
    4. Young amateurs/average college players/great high school players (my "not crap")
    5. Bench college players/good high school players (also "not crap", but more "meh")
    6. Average high school players

    In the US, there are ~30 players in tier 1 and ~150 in tier 2. That 5x increase would put ~750 in tier 3, ~4,000 in tier 4, ~20,000 in tier 5, and ~100,000 in tier 6. This puts tier 6 clearly low by about a factor of 4 (assuming ~20players per team on the ~20,000 high schools across the country), so a factor of 7x might be more appropriate - which would put ~1000 in tier 3 - but at the same time there are only 176 NCAA women's soccer teams across all three divisions, which is ~5,000 total if you're generous and put ~30players/team. But let's keep that ~1,000 in tier 3 for now. By your math of putting 10 "quality"/"close behind", that would mean 100 teams across the country to "cover" those 1,000 players - which is very close to the total number of teams between WPSL (~70) and W-League (~20). And of course you have some W-League and more WPSL teams that have only tier 4 and below because the better teams hoard as many of the tier 3 players as they can.

    With just 1000 tier 3 players in 100 teams across the country (2000 players total), that averages 200 players tier 3 on 2 teams per state - clearly not enough for a competitive league per state. Of course, some states like Cali and Texas would be fine, but even an above-average state like Ohio - 11.5mil/320mil by population - that's only 3-4 teams. And that's even assuming all tier 3 players even choose to play during the summer. Participation in summer leagues by college players is not high at all, because (like with many sports) most college athletes know they have no shot at ever going pro, so it's better to take extra classes or do research or take internships over the summer than it is to keep up the game. Even if you double that 2000 players total to 4000 (3000/5000 of the total college players + 1000 high schoolers who can play close to the college level, "quality"+"close behind"+"not crap") that's barely enough to sustain a league in Ohio, (~140 players total instead of the 200 you wanted,) and definitely not enough for any of the smaller states.

    Now, you could lower your definition of "quality" to include more players in tier 4, and thus allow players from tiers 5 and 6 into the "not crap" part of your league - but then you're really beginning to leave the good&great college players high and dry - they will not benefit at all from playing on and against teams that are loaded with not-great high school players and the college-age players that would normally ride the bench. My point is that state leagues like you're suggesting will have teams that are lower quality than the opponents the better college players, particularly the DI players and probably some DII too, normally play against, which will hinder rather than help their development, so you have to have some level of the pyramid between local leagues and the pros.

    A good league will have two, maybe three tiers it taps in to, IMO, and our current structure works well for that I think:
    ++D1 - NWSL - summer, national - tiers 1&2, occasionally tier 3 players get called up
    ++D2a - W-League - summer, regional w/ national playoffs - tiers 3&4
    ++D2b - WPSL - summer, subregional w/ regional & national playoffs - tiers 3&4, some tier 5
    ++NCAA - winter, subregional w/ subregional & national playoffs - tiers 3,4,&5, occasionally produces a tier 2 player
    ++ECNL - winter, subregional w/ complex national playoffs - tiers 4&5, some 3&6
    ++Youth - usually winter, local w/ varied playoffs - tiers 4,5,&6
    The arrangement allows players a nice system of moving up the ladder, never being outclasses or dragged down by the other players in the league. Cut the US up so that it's all local leagues and you lose that competitiveness for players in the higher tiers as well as losing that developmental mobility.
     
  12. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Oversight in my last post: 176 is just the tournament total for NCAA, not total overall. So the second half of my fifth paragraph can be ignored, buy the rest of the general augment still stands.
     
  13. SJJ

    SJJ Member

    Sep 20, 1999
    Royal Oak, MI, USA
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #63 SJJ, Jan 15, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2015
  14. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    WPSL CONTINUES EXPANSION FOR 2015 SEASON
    Seven new teams ready to go for 2015 season
    The Women’s Premier Soccer League would like to welcome seven new teams that will begin playing this coming season. The expansion teams hail from a various regions across the country, and even from outside the country.
    Among the newcomers is Club Tijuana from Baja California, Mexico. The addition of a team south of the border is in line with the league’s vision of becoming an international league. Club Tijuana is not the first international club to play in the WPSL, as there have been previous clubs from Canada in the league. Club Tijuana will be playing in the tough Pacific-South Region, where current WPSL Champion Beach Futbol Club plays.
    The other six new clubs for the upcoming season are: Federal City, Virginia Beach, Chesterfield United, R.V.A Fredericksburg (New Region); Fresno Freeze (Pacific-North Region); and Northwest Florida (Sunshine Region).
    The WPSL continues to flourish, showing continuous support for the growth of women’s soccer, not only across the country, but across international borders as well. There could potentially be more teams joining for the 2015 season. Several teams from across the country are currently in the process of putting together their franchise packets in order to join the league.
    We will continue to update our fans and players as new developments unfold. For now, please help us welcome our members to the WPSL and let’s continue to support women’s soccer everywhere.
     
  15. StarCityFan

    StarCityFan BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 2, 2001
    Greenbelt, MD
    Club:
    Washington Freedom
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We're getting something like four new teams in the Maryland/Virginia region.
     
  16. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  17. StarCityFan

    StarCityFan BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 2, 2001
    Greenbelt, MD
    Club:
    Washington Freedom
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  18. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Official tryouts for the WPSL FC Tacoma women will begin Saturday, Feb 14th, and will be Noon – 2:00p at the Tacoma Public Schools, Professional Development Center (Skyline Elementary/Old Truman Middle School). Tryouts will continue at the same time and location each week. Tryouts are open to all players at no charge. The women will play in the Northwest Division of the WPSL. League play for the women will begin towards the end of May.

    Please e-mail or call with any questions.
    Craig Vincent
    FC TACOMA
    Director of Girls' & Women's Soccer
    coachvincent@fctacoma253.com
    253.365.0559

    www.fctacoma253.com
     

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