Ok, after Dearman's newest adjustments: 1 Pele 1570 2 Diego Maradona 1527 3 Johan Cruyff 1510 4 Alfredo Di Stefano 1444 5 Franz Beckenbauer 1443 6 Ferenc Puskas 1387 7 Michel Platini 1341 8 Garrincha 1270 9 Ronaldo 1212 10 Zinedine Zidane 1204 11 Eusebio 1171 12 Zico 1159 13 George Best 1095 14 Gerd Muller 1088 15 Bobby Charlton 1043 16 Marco van Basten 996 17 Lothar Matthaus 863 18 Paolo Maldini 849 19 Lionel Messi 797 20 Lev Yashin 787 21 Romario 745 22 Franco Baresi 699 23 Ruud Gullit 659 24 Roberto Baggio 637 25 Bobby Moore 608 26 Didi 575 27 Ronaldinho 523 28 Guissepe Meazza 503 29 Rivelino 485 30 Stanley Matthews 467 31 Karl-Heinz Rummenigge 395 32 Jose Manuel Moreno 388 33 Gianni Rivera 363 34 Zizinho 347 35 Cristiano Ronaldo 346 36 Dino Zoff 340 37 Raymond Kopa 313 38 Thierry Henry 307 39 Leonidas 239 40 Matthias Sindelar 211 41 Daniel Passarella 206 42 Paolo Rossi 205 43 Michael Laudrup 204 44 Fritz Walter 200 45 Rivaldo 195 46 Sandor Kocsis 187 47 Mario Kempes 186 48 Juan Schiaffino 158 49 Ladislao Kubala 156 50 George Weah 153 51 Dennis Bergkamp 147 52 Gianluigi Buffon 144 53 Falcao 140 54 Luis Figo 136 55 Luis Suarez Miramontes 132 56 Roberto Carlos 131 57 Johan Neeskens 130 58 Socrates 129 59 Gordon Banks 124 60 Josef Bican 122 61 Giacinto Facchetti 121 62= Gabriel Batistuta 118 62= Carlos Alberto 118 64 Frank Rijkaard 117 65 Nilton Santos 116 66 Peter Schmeichel 115 67 Xavi 110 68= Teofilo Cubillas 106 68= Gyorgy Sarosi 106 70 Omar Sivori 102 71 Cafu 100 72 Sandro Mazzola 99 73 Just Fontaine 98 74 Gunnar Nordahl 95 75 Adolfo Pedernera 94 76 Kenny Dalglish 90 77 Jozsef Bozsik 88 78 Hristo Stoichkov 87 79 Kevin Keegan 86 80= Hugo Sanchez 82 80= Andres Iniesta 82 82= Jairzinho 77 82= Jurgen Klinsmann 77 84 Gheorghe Hagi 75 85 Elias Figueroa 72 86 Duncan Edwards 68 87 Samuel Eto'o 67 88 John Charles 65 89 Uwe Seeler 63 90 Djalma Santos 60 91 Kaka 59 92 Valentino Mazzola 56 93 Fabio Cannavaro 55 94 Matthias Sammer 54 95= Dejan Savicevic 53 95= Francesco Totti 53 97 Lilian Thuram 52 98 Alberto Ohaco 50 99 Arthur Friedenreich 49 100= Imre Schlosser 47 100= Nandor Hidegkuti 47 102 Enzo Francescoli 46 103 Hector Scarone 43 104 Cesar Cueto 42 105 Gaetano Scirea 41 106= Oldrich Nejedly 40 106= Oliver Kahn 40 108 Jose Leandro Andrade 39 109 Arsenio Erico 37 110 Luigi Riva 36 111= Ernst Ocwirk 34 111= Romerito 34 111= Kazimierz Deyna 34 114= Jose Nasazzi 30 114= Luis Monti 30 116 Dragan Dzajic 28 117= Francisco Gento 26 117= Ryan Giggs 26 117= Carlos Valderrama 26 117= Eddie Hapgood 26 121= Junior 25 121= Bruno Conti 25 121= Amadeo Carizzo 25 121= Alberto Spencer 25 125= Piet Keizer 23 125= Tom Finney 23 125= Zbigniew Boniek 23 128 Eric Cantona 22 129= Paul Breitner 21 129= Florian Albert 21 131= Andriy Shevchenko 20 131= Mario Zagallo 20 133= Tostao 19 133= Bebeto 19 135 David Beckham 18 136= Domingos Da Guia 17 136= Albert Shesternyov 17 138= Arjen Robben 16 138= Rene Higuita 16 140= Wim van Hanegem 14 140= Paul Scholes 14 142= Denis Law 13 142= Oleg Blokhin 13 144= Gunnar Gren 12 144= Claudio Gentile 12 144= Andrea Pirlo 12 144= Steven Gerrard 12 148= Raul 11 148= Berti Vogts 11 148= Jay-Jay Okocha 11 148= Roger Milla 11 152= Ian Rush 10 152= Alessandro Del Piero 10 152= Abedi Pele 10 152= Anton Schall 10 156= Emilio Butragueno 9 156= Careca 9 156= Nils Liedholm 9 159= Sepp Maier 8 159= Leandro 8 159= Demetrio Albertini 8 159= Hugo Sotil 8 163= Gerson 7 163= Alessandro Nesta 7 163= Preben Elkjaer 7 163= Marcel Desailly 7 163= Neymar 7 168= Ruud van Nistelrooy 6 168= Wolfgang Overath 6 168= Allan Simonsen 6 171= Edgar Davids 5 171= Ubaldo Fillol 5 171= Fritz Szepan 5 174= Wesley Sneijder 4 174= Fernando Redondo 4 174= Bryan Robson 4 174= Dixie Dean 4 178= Jorginho 3 178= Hector Chumpitaz 3 178= Roberto Donadoni 3 181= Telmo Zarra 2 181= Gary Lineker 2 181= David Trezeguet 2 181= Rob Rensenbrink 2 185= Deco 1 185= Marco Tardelli 1 185= Rafael Marquez 1 185= Murtaz Khurtsilava 1 185= Steve Bloomer 1
No problem. I think everything is completely up to date now (for the original method voting anyway). We've got a pretty good sample of voters now, although as you say some did vote as long ago as 2009.
How good was Paul Van Himst? Does anyone know about him more than what wikipedia says? I ask because I saw he ranked quite high in the 1964 and 1965 Ballon d'Or votings (had been mentioned already in 1963), but I dont see that he would have had too extraordinary performances outside Belgium (not among the most important ones). I doubt that his excelling in the Belgian league alone would have been enough to get so much acclamation. Did he have some enshrining performances with the national team at the time or something? Was he simply THAT good? I wonder what made him rank 5th for the 1964 Ballon d'Or and 4th for the 1965 one.
He has been the first great player of a great national team ( Uruguay, of course : 20 goals in 41 caps and 3 Copa Americas won ). He wons 4 Uruguyan leagues and he has been one of the most important players in the world before of the First World War with Bloomer, Schlosser, Ohaco, Meredith, Woodward, Hampton etc.
You are really up on all this info about the old players. Maybe msioux has a good idea about some of these players but I think the question would maybe be most appropriately addressed to the user (zeze1929 was it - apologies for not checking) who voted Ohaco into first place. EDIT I guess you did notice Bloomer has a point now though.
That one might be best answered by Puck as far as I can think - he's pretty good on the Belgians as well as of course the Dutch players.
Yeah, I remember that Ohaco 1st place too I guess Piendibene was rated higher than Ohaco in their era. I think i post it before, i saw once a peruvian mag at early 80s, cited a uruguayan ranking about the Peñarol All Time XI. From my memory, it was something like this: ---------------------------- Mazurkiewicz (60s) Pacheco (10s) ----- Martínez (50s) ----- J.Benincasa?? ----- Caetano?? -------------------------------- Varela (40s) ------------------- Rocha??? ------------- Schiaffino (50s) ----- Ghiggia (50s) --------- Piendibene (10s) --------- Joya (60s)
Yeah!! And that was one of the things that amazed me. I just noticed how higher was Piendibene rated for old timers.
I just wanted to say that that "greatest player ever" poll I posted a few weeks ago had ABSOLUTELY NO EFFECT on my rankings, because it just reflects general opinion and among the younger generations. This is my method: I looked at fifa player of the year award from 1991 till today (from 2010 fifa ballon d'or of course), from '82 till '91 i used world soccer player of the year and for the earlier years I combined france football ballon d'or , south american player of the year and dearman's player of the year awards. I gave 5 points for first place, 3 for second and 1 for third, as a tie breaker i used goals average at top level, trophies won at top level and dearman's all time greatest footballers list. At the and i gave myself freedom to give Maradona 4 additional points for 1986 world cup (best world cup performance ever), and to make some little changes like put rummenigge one place down, maradona one place up, and zico one place up. Oh and i always add 2 points on total for defenders and goalkeepeers since they are always underrated in these awards. For example some center back was 3. in one year and and 2. in another so he would have 4 points but I give him 2 additional so he has 6. I have done the awards only to 1958 so di stefano and puskas are put according to my opinion.
This is the list of combined top 50 lists from 2013 till today, every list on this thread is included that's from this period, except that Alberto Ohaco list(Dearman, Peru FC,ibm times, footbal fann, PDG1978, breitner's wig, di pecruydona, footballsquads.com list, but only as one vote, and my list). 1.Pele 448 2. Maradona 432 3. Cruyff 421 4. di Stefano 415 5. Beckenbauer 406 6. Messi 398 7. Puskas 380 7. Zidane 380 9. Platini 375 10. Best 363 11.Ronaldo 351 12. Eusebio 340 13. Garrincha 335 14. Zico 327 15. Charlton 317 16. Muller 286 17. Matthaus 267 18. van Basten 239 19. Yashin 222 20.C. Ronaldo 215 21. Maldini 201 22. Baggio 192 23.Ronaldinho 185 24. Meazza 184 25. Gullit 177 26. Romario 175 26. Baresi 175 28. Moore 172 29. Rummenigge 169 30. Rivera 161 31. Didi 160 32. Moreno 139 33. Zoff 135 34. Sindelar 122 35. Matthews 111 36. Zizinho 108 37. Henry 99 38. Luis Suarez Miramontes 98 39. Rivelino 84 40. Kopa 83 41. Pedernera 66 41. Laudrup 66 43. Figo 62 44. Weah 57 45. Keegan 55 46. Xavi 49 47. Rivaldo 42 48. Cannavaro 41 49. Rijkaard 40 50. Cafu 38 51. Leonidas 36 52. Kocsis 35 52. Sarosi 35 54. Schiaffino 34 55. Charles 33 55. V. Mazzola 33 57. Kempes 32 58. Fachetti 31 59. Dalglish 30 59. Neeskens 30 61. N.Santos 28 62. D. Santos 27 63. Banks 26 64. Fritz Walter 25 64. Higenkuti 25 66. Socrates 24 66. Kubala 24 66. Friedenreich 24 69. Carlos Alberto 23 69. Finney 23 71. Savicevic 22 72. Iniesta 21 72. Buffon 21 72. Albert 21 72. Bergkamp 21 . . . Gerrard 12 Pirlo 12 . . . I made this list so we can see where some active players would really rank. I wanted to salve the problem that this thread started in 2009 so a lot of votes are from long time ago. So it's safe to say that Messi's place is at number 6 between Beckenbauer and Puskas. C. Ronaldo in 13-14 list is at number 20 but since Maldini is on 09-14 list in front Yashin who is in front of CR7 here we can say that ronaldo's place should be 21 between Yashin and Romario. As for Xavi and Iniesta, it's really hard to find their real place but it would probably be somewhere between 50 and 60 for Xavi and for Iniesta between 60 and 70.
I'll take your word for it mate re: the results (but everyone does that for my lists too - they should be 100% correct hopefully but every now and then I've realised a mistake and corrected it)! Good work. It does show a more 'current' feeling among voters. On the other hand a lot of knowledgeable and keen posters voted earlier so their votes obviously enhance the sample overall. Both lists are interesting to see anyway so thanks for doing that and contributing to the thread in a positive manner.
I suppose in terms of current players that list shows about the max positions according to the people on here generally, wheras the original standings show more of a minimum position (because some might revise their lists and raise them a fair bit in theory...but maybe not if they already placed them highish before and voted more on peak form). Anyway, it's still a contrast to the poll you showed us which was more of a 'modern/young fan' poll in effect I suppose. But those players do still achieve a high placing just using those 9 most recent votes.
Thanks. I also want to say that there were a few ties in Footballsquads.com list so as a tiebreaker i used our 09-14 list. You say that some maybe voted on peak form, well that's the thing Messi's peak was 2011/12 same as Ronaldo's (some would say that his peak was last season), so votes from 09,10,11 couldn't have them on high places because they haven't shown their true peak or consistency i honestly think that Messi's true place would be 6. or 7. and Ronaldo's 21, 22. You can see that Garrincha is lower on 13-14 list than on 09-14 list, I think that shouldn't mean anything since the first list carries a lot more weight and this new was done primarily for active players and their estimated real placing.