Official 2014 World Cup Thread

Discussion in 'Japan' started by Whispered11, Sep 9, 2013.

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  1. scotch17

    scotch17 Member

    Jun 15, 2008
    Entebbe
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    That kind of stuff is useful against your Australia, Qatar, Bahrain, etc. though.
    But it'll get you screwed up against decent opponents.
    Unfortunately AFC matches are very low quality.
     
  2. griffindinho_au

    griffindinho_au Member+

    May 30, 2013
    Club:
    Melbourne Victory
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    Shame Japan can't beat Australia in qualifying ;)
     
  3. scotch17

    scotch17 Member

    Jun 15, 2008
    Entebbe
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    #1478 scotch17, Jul 13, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2014
    There is a reason I mentioned those 3 specifically... though I suppose I could've included others like Jordan, Uzbekistan, DPRK ... but I prefer not to think of those.
     
  4. griffindinho_au

    griffindinho_au Member+

    May 30, 2013
    Club:
    Melbourne Victory
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    Fair enough, but Australia are a completely different side compared to what it was 10 months ago. (i.e new manager, tactics, philosophy, younger players)
     
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  5. scotch17

    scotch17 Member

    Jun 15, 2008
    Entebbe
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    I don't know how different they really are today from 10 months ago... but for me they've kinda fallen off the map since 2006 and 2010. That's not meant as a bash, I hope Australia comes back -- AFC needs Australia, Korea, and Japan to be strong. And needs more countries to step up to that level (well, really we all need to step beyond even "that" level).
     
  6. AKITOD

    AKITOD Member+

    Apr 5, 2007
    Hobart, Aust
    Club:
    JEF United Ichihara
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Australia right now really needs to prove its one of the best nations in Asia. Cause they really did lose a lot of that 'shine' over the last couple years. Hope they have a good Asian Cup, anything less than 3rd place would surely be a fail.
     
  7. Blue-San

    Blue-San Member+

    Jun 21, 2011
    Club:
    Kashima Antlers
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    am interested in German high line defense today and their pressure and whether or not they will make mistakes doing it which Argentina will punish or will it be their pressure forcing Argentina in mistakes which they will punish.

    When playing high pressure both happens. But depends on how much and how the opponent punishes you
     
  8. Majster2

    Majster2 Member+

    Apr 23, 2010
    Poland
    Club:
    Urawa RD
    It amazed me how many people thought that's actual video from North Korean TV. They can be ridiculous but in much more dangerous way.
     
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  9. KiarashM

    KiarashM Member+

    Mar 2, 2014
    Club:
    Perspolis
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    I wanted to change my Hotmail password into ''Brazildefense'' but it told me it was too weak :ROFLMAO:
     
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  10. datschge

    datschge Member+

    Feb 9, 2014
    Germany
    That sure worked out well... :D It was a disappointing match since both teams played security first, keeping defending in numbers and never committing to attacks in numbers. For Argentina this is business as usual at the WC, they are successful with this approach. For Netherlands though this was fatal, they never managed to switch into the attacking play they actually do well and kept playing the mode Argentina was better in. They rectified this against Brazil.

    Argentina is really a minimalist team. I'd like to see how they play once they are behind. So far they never really needed to push forward.

    This is not a weakness but more of a trade off. You can't have plenty players high up the field to attack in numbers and put permanent pressure on the opponent and the leave a huge gap behind it. To keep the pressure and stay close to the ball and opponent the defense needs to be high as well. In Germany's case it can even be argued that the risk of a high defense line is lower than usual as Neuer is speedy and accurate enough to clear a lot of free balls. For Argentina it will be interesting if Di Maria will make it in time.

    You answered nothing of my question. What is a "top" players? What makes a "top" team "top"? What makes the "best" clubs the "best", the "hartest" leagues the "hardest"? It is easy to point to results like player/club/league making this much money or winning this and that, but this is only the result of good efforts. How do they get there?

    I actually totally agree with the bolded. But how do you call this "system"? I call it strategy and tactics. Even if that is not explicitly set the chemistry between the players and the resulting group dynamics can be analyzed in terms of tactics.

    No club in particular, more like the ideal form that was Barca back in 2009/10. I'm not saying teams are implementing Tiqui Taca in its pure form. But what's definitely is happening is that ball retention as a defensive measurement to control the opponent plays a much bigger role now than it has before, and that's not a matter of team strength.

    Also with Gegenpressing/Counterpressing I'm referring to the ideal form. Dortmund is actually far off the ideal form since several years now, Their peak was around 2010-12, last year the most impressive pressing team was Salzburg. A lowly team that used pressing to great effect is Rayo Vallencano, especially in 2012/13. But similar to Tiqui Taca this doesn't necessarily have to be a tactics used in a pure form but can be used as timed measurement against specific opponents. Also there are three distinct approaches to collective pressing that can all be trained depending on the players strengths, but regardless of the players strengths are very usable as soon as a team plays well as a collective.

    Which is exactly what made him the player preventing Real collecting titles even though the team is filled with individuals that one would think would ensure plenty of them.
     
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  11. Dax

    Dax Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 29, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Ah, then it's pretty simple. A top player is a player with talent. Weather that comes through hard work, natural skills, physical gifts and so on, depends on the player. The only certain thing is that it usually has nothing to do with being tactically disciplined, (Zlatan would have a couple of words about that haha). A top team is a team made of players of this caliber. Greece may have won the euros back then but, obviously, nobody would call them a "top team" as everyone knew it was a one-shot thing.

    yes but... I'm not sure what was the point here. I was merely saying that I think tactics's purpose were more what I wrote than your first observation, it was just my opinion.

    Which is interesting, isn't it? One could say that the other teams found a way to counter them tactically and stuff like that... I personally just think that their squad quality has decreased a little in certain areas or if we want to talk about Bayern, that they are now again a team with superior quality.

    LOL... please man... just see this year's Champions League, where he accounts a lot for it. I guess I just have to disagree a lot here. Ibrahimovic is another example of this kind of player.
     
  12. datschge

    datschge Member+

    Feb 9, 2014
    Germany
    Actually less interesting than you think. Dortmund's squad quality has increased, but the players are playing more individually than as a cohesive unit like they did at the high point of their pressing. They still seem to try to get back to that point, but it obviously never has been Klopp primary focus (compared to e.g. Roger Schmidt's of Salzburg and now Leverkusen).

    With what do you even disagree? Before Bale arrived the team always had to be build around him. It was no possibility to leave him out, and as you said neither was it possible to turn off his ego. In that time (4 years) he won cup and league one time. That's what I call bad.

    With Cristiano Ronaldo as a "top player" Real Madrid was far less of a "top team" than all the individual "top players" they had would suggest. So your suggestion a top team is what would consist of top players who don't need to be tactically disciplined is superficial and often wrong.
     
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  13. Dax

    Dax Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 29, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    That's also a concrete possibility, even if thinking better about it, I guess it was more Bayern that has become a better team like in the past in the last years

    That's because you're assuming he was the problem, while I think the problem were actually the other players. It's still not possible to leave him out and maybe now that there's Bale he himself worked even better, as was proved by facts. Even in La Liga, the output difference between the two was pretty big.
    It would be like saying that Messi was Barcelona's problem in the last two years.

    Your suggestion that Real Madrid was some kind of mediocre team these years honestly leaves me a bit cold, sorry. Again, I mentioned Ibrahimovic too but the list could probably be longer

    oh and btw, my bad but I realized we're going a bit too off topic here =( I'm not saying this because I want to cut the conversation or anything, absolutely. I'm also watching the final right now...
     
  14. KiarashM

    KiarashM Member+

    Mar 2, 2014
    Club:
    Perspolis
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    Well done Germany!
     
  15. SamuraiBlue2002

    SamuraiBlue2002 Member+

    Dec 20, 2008
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Hopefully one day Japan will be as good as Germany is.
     
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  16. Samurai Warrior

    Samurai Warrior Member+

    Dec 2, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    ... and the winning goal was scored by Goetze, who was Kagawa's sub in Borussia Dortmund:cool:!
     
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  17. KiarashM

    KiarashM Member+

    Mar 2, 2014
    Club:
    Perspolis
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
  18. -Kodemari

    -Kodemari Member

    Jan 15, 2012
    Trento, Italy
    Club:
    Consadole Sapporo
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Yay for Germany! They really deserved it. Argentina was dangerous on several occasions but I liked the Germans better overall throughout the game.
     
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  19. Saku²

    Saku² Member+

    Aug 22, 2009
    Club:
    FC Salzburg
    Sad day
     
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  20. leerooney

    leerooney Member

    May 8, 2014
    Hanoi
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    First, congratulations to Germany for winning 2014 World Cup.
    Second, congratulations to James Rodriguez for winning the Golden Boot.
    Third, special congratulations to Manuel Neuer for winning the Golden Glove.
    Last but not least, Messi to winning the Golden Ball? You've gotta be kidding me.
     
  21. teioh

    teioh Member+

    Apr 17, 2012
    End the WC is over.
    I will remember some pretty good and entertaining match but none by Japan.
    Now, vacations and see you in august for the new season.
     
  22. Essex

    Essex Member

    Jul 5, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Congratulations to Germany! Glad they made it!
     
  23. KiarashM

    KiarashM Member+

    Mar 2, 2014
    Club:
    Perspolis
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    Cant wait for the Asian Cup....every single person here will become my enemy until the very end of that Cup..!

    Just kidding though, I love this section and my Japanese friends. :D
     
  24. Saku²

    Saku² Member+

    Aug 22, 2009
    Club:
    FC Salzburg
    The Netherlands are invited to the Asian Cup ?
     
  25. KiarashM

    KiarashM Member+

    Mar 2, 2014
    Club:
    Perspolis
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    I'm not Dutch but I live here. I am from Iran.
     

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