Would Argentina have won the 1986 World Cup if Pele in place of Maradona?

read WELL, I said some legends with good reputation and did watch Pele playing at time OK?

Often I only gave some reference of some great legends with great reputation and STOP at Platini/Zico (who was in their late 50's) - I never give names like romario, ronaldo or CR7 .... who did consider Pele as best , but they might not had really watched Pele playing ... OK?

Just name me a few valid names, and see WHO is NAIVE?

 

I don't have a source where I can just pick out famous people's opinions from. I'm just saying no way did everyone that saw pele think he's the greatest, but you've just selected names that do think he was, I'm just saying that doesn't mean EVERYONE does

Even you admitted maradona was more skilled than pele.

Okay pele had bigger stats, but maradona played in serie a that usually averaged more or less 2 goals per game, before that in Argentina it averaged 2 and a half goals per game. In the league pele scored almost all his goals in, it usually averaged between 3 and 4 goals per game. Look how many goals maradona scored in Argentina where the average was 2.5, goodness knows how many he'd have scored playing his entire career in the regional league pele played in!

 

This was just a joke...

However, like Menotti does with Pelé, you are always the #1 guy to fully overrate Maradona his abilities (like that he didn't 'need' a developed weak foot). As well as how bad his team-mates were (once you claimed something like that the other Napoli players couldn't make one good pass).

 

I posted my reasoning for him not needing a developed weak foot, I've never seen anyone so efficiently use the outside of their foot every game as maradona. For practical purposes, that replaced the need to play the ball with his weak foot. I could show you goals, crosses, through balls, other passes to prove my point, but it's actually the regulatory of it in every game that made me think it.

That's not exactly what I said but his teammates at napoli were not very technically gifted, that's widely accepted. Let's say compare it with platinis juventus, there were defenders in that juventus team more comfortable with the ball than napolis midfielders, imo.....

 

Yeah, imagine how many goals Pelé would have scored in the European Cup.

 

Xavi is a legend in his own right, his opinion carries weight.

 

you did NOT read me well ...

It's NOT about the "legendary status" that counts but the "true knowledge and experience with what they CLAIM" is that counts, OK?

Yes, Xavi is surely a great Barca legend, and even a world legend ... but I could not take his comment seiously since he does not know much of PELE , and I am not sure if he even knows a lot about Maradona per se ...
hence = NAIVE opinion = does not count ...

in other hands, Juste FOntaine, Bobby Moore, Eusebio Puskas, Di Stefano and Beckenabuer ... all WATCHED and even played with/against Pele = COUNTED MORE

 

Di Stéfano has stated in the past that he had not seen much of Pelé at all...
And a guy like say, Fontaine... How much of Pelé you think he has seen? You really think every one of these guys have seen a significant larger amount of Pelé than what we can see now on footage? You think they saw Pelé in the Paulista or the Libertadores, for instance?
Anyways, I always find it annoying how for some people it is relevant whether a player has seen Pelé or not only if they think some other one is the greatest ever. Example: if Platini goes around saying Pelé was the greatest, thats the right answer so whether he saw Pelé in action extensively (how unlikely is that?) or not does not matter jack. But if say, Rummenigge says Maradona was the best... then its because he did not see Pelé.
Look at what Romario said in September 2013:
http://peru.com/futbol/internacional/romario-maradona-tecnicamente-mejor-que-pele-noticia-196303

"Maradona was technically better than Pelé".
"Pelé was the best because he was the one that scored the most, one of the ones that played the most with a team and the NT, and certainly the one that won more titles with Brazil and Santos."
"But when it comes to technique nobody will be better than Maradona. Even if Pelé was the greatest all things considered, as far as technique goes Maradona was the best I ever saw."

So, Pelé is the greatest because of stats and collective accomplishments... But Maradona was technically superior. Props to Romario for saying it. Oh wait... It becomes obvious now that he never saw Pelé play like all those other people mentioned that obviously did see tons of Pelé...

 

Thanks, mate.

It must also be taken into account that there was a feud going on between Menotti and Bilardo right from the moment that Bilardo took the helm after Menotti stepped down in 1982 and this feud never ceased. Maradona defended his new coach and Menotti and Maradona's relationship deteriorated from then on. Still, Maradona as you acknowledged, always respected Menotti as the mentor and motivator that he was.

 

What an understatement...

 

I think I know what piece of footage you mean, but could not find it to see exactly what Pelé says.
Anyhow, if going by what it sounds like, it does sound to me like Pelé does concedes Maradona is superior in some aspect. If going by what he in fact says, he never says "better than me" or anything close to it, if I remember correctly.
Anyways, I think Pelé in that statement constricts it to running with the ball or something. Romario speaks of Maradona being technically superior in general. Thats more than just "running with the ball", isnt it?

 

In those aspects, for what I have seen Maradona is clearly superior. You can add passing and vision too.

 

In my opinion -- not one player among those you mentioned (Bobby Moore, Eusebio, Puskas, Di Stefano, Beckenbauer, etc) actually "watched" Pele: all of them were professional football players at the time Pele played, added to the fact that network television did not showed Pele playing with Santos on a monthly basis (let alone a weekly basis), added to the fact that not one of those players actually played in the same league as "peak" Pele, added to the fact that professional football players do not tend to watch football games on their free time seeing how football is what they do every single day.

The reality is that footage about Pele is very limited, Bobby Moore and Beckenbauer have not seen or "watched" any special secret footage of Pele -- they watched the very same, very limited, number of Pele plays that we all know only too well by now.

 

Huh? ALL of them they did ACTUALLY play with or against Pele in real games OK?

Now you just exposed your knowledge ...
Your "opinion" is just like Xavi's... LOL do not just "throw" something on the table and "think " you can get away with!!!!!

At WC66 and WC70, Bobby Moore and Banks and his co did study well to prepare to "stop" Pele.
Puskas and Di Stefano played against Pele in friendly and they did watch Plee before hand ...
Beckenbauer did study and watched Pele and played against him in friendly
Eusebio wacthed Pele to prepare for his EC62 ... and WC66 OK?

PLLLLLLLL EEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSS

 

how much you had actually "seen" Pele playing? Plessse

In ball control, I always rated Maradona as the best, and arguably in dribbling ... those are the TWO aspects Maradona could claim as "better"

 

I know it is just an anecdote and maybe I think tomorrow differently but when watching both legs of the 1963 Copa Libertadores final against Boca Juniors, it is to me clear that he has by far the best ball control of all players on the field. In the 2nd leg he didn't see too much of the ball though.
However, when put next to Rivelino or a Rivera then it doesn't appear as outstanding, yeah.

To me, that also applies to Maradona as well. If not more so than Pelé. I remember 'leadleader' also saying that from his own viewing experience Maradona his passing and skill looked inconsistent (across games or within a game itself).

 

This is a nice compilation of that game.


Both Napoli - Juventus games of a season later (1986-87) can be seen as well.

 

The difference in passing between Maradona and Pele is that Diego would often times give up the ball when trying to do the impossible ( a long range split pass into the pk area for example), but almost never would turn it over under normal circumstances. In this respect, Pele tried those type of daring passes much less frequently (on the other hand, he too riskier shots to goal more often).

The most famous WC assist for each are actually clear examples: Pele kills the ball beautifully with one touch and then makes a soft square past to Carlos Alberto, who takes the most perfect ground shot ever from outside the area to beat Zoff. For Maradona, he makes a pass in mid-air while surrounded by three German players (the surprise element of not letting the ball hit the ground is the key play), it travels a good 25 yards forward releasing Burruchaga who does what any professional player would do, shoot it wide of the on-rushing keeper.

It's also worth noting the context of each play as summing up both WC winning sides. Pele puts the setup touch in a beautiful ensemble orchestration, Maradona must improvise it off an errant play.