Algarve Cup 2014

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by jonny63, Nov 21, 2013.

  1. babranski

    babranski Member+

    Dec 15, 2012
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, they weren't. Highlighting and bolding words that you can find some correlation with other debates on is illogical.

    He brought the AC in and dismissed it as an experimental tournament. I argued it was a mistake to dismiss it, and I noted my general sentiments on what the AC revealed and why we can't ignore it.

    This comment was meant to be taken alone. Previous comments concerning specific instances or problems have no bearing on this argument. However if you want to play that game, we can go back and take a gander at all your previous postings in this thread and in the Pool Thread.

    What do you think we will find? A majority of them say, more or less say, "don't worry, all is well, our regulars are still the best, there is nothing to see here, its okay the best team in the world failed to win 3 out of 4 games." You have repeated the same thing yourself, over and over and over in one form or another. So much so that you have taken it as fact and become "offended" when someone challenges your point of view, even in an indirect manner.

    In nearly the same breath as being offended, you told me to "lighten up".
     
  2. Semblance17

    Semblance17 Member+

    United States
    Apr 27, 2013
    Lighthouse Point, FL
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  3. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    A majority of them will tend to suggest those things, yes, because those are my opinions-- however I think you will find that I use phrases like "I think," "it is my impression," "seemed to me," and so forth rather than asking someone else to "please stop covering for etc." The idea IMO is to have discussion not to suppress it.

    I'm perfectly willing to discuss around your belief that Sermanni made a ton of errors rather than that he tried to find out who to let go in building a WC roster. You may turn out to be right in the end for all I know-- I just don't see that the losses per se represent evidence for that opinion, and I did not take the same things away from watching the games themselves that you did.

    I'm not asking you to believe that Sermanni is competent; just to be a little open to the possibility that your opinion that he is not was perhaps formulated emotionally and in haste and supported by selection bias thereafter. That and to not treat folks with different opinions as though they were crooked politicians or or the like. To discuss the questions and conflicts a bit deeper, or pass them by, rather than asking the other to "please stop covering for."

    Oh-- and maybe a bit of perspective? We are discussing a soccer program; it doesn't have a thousandth the importance of say Keynesian economics, or evolution, or even Holocaust denial... Seems to me "totally unacceptable" doesn't belong in our conversations, simply because our fandom is a discretionary occupation; we aren't compelled to do it, and it does not empower us to accept or reject beyond the choice to continue paying attention.
     
  4. babranski

    babranski Member+

    Dec 15, 2012
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's why we are arguing? Semantics?

    "I think you are making excuses for ... " has the same connotation as "Please stop making excuses for ... "

    just like "Seems to me 'totally unacceptable' doesn't belong" has the same connotation as "please stop using 'totally unacceptable'"

    There real question is this: Would we be having this argument if I had said "I think you are making excuses for ..." instead? In addition, do you have a different perspective on this argument if you understood that I don't really see a distinction between the two?

    Likewise, I now have a better understanding at why your so upset because I know that you do see that distinction.
     
  5. babranski

    babranski Member+

    Dec 15, 2012
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I like to think that pointing out 1 coaching error by Tom doesn't mean I think he is incompetent. I've not really had any other problems with what he has done. I was confused by his double pivot system in the midfield and questioning the call ups as a result, but holden cleared that up for me.

    Also, it maybe our fandom is discretionary, but there is no reason we can't approach it with passion, vigor, and exaggeration. Go big or go home. :p
     
  6. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    Actually it doesn't, but okay.:cautious:

    If giving orders is the equivalent of expressing thoughts in your approach, there's not much chance of our ever interacting successfully, but I'll try to remember to make excuses for you.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. luvdagame

    luvdagame Member+

    Jul 6, 2000
    nope. not trying to convince anybody of anything. just stating my opinion which in the grand scheme of uswnt things is worth little or nothing.

    on the contrary. most of us on this board are likely just football typists. i'm just saying that your view of the happenings at the ac is perfectly legitimate. but it's not the only way to see it. others genuinely see it differently.

    to you.

    to me ts seemed to try several experiments that he got at least partial answers for.

    please stop making requests that require me to see the ac the way you do.
     
  8. luvdagame

    luvdagame Member+

    Jul 6, 2000
    #1658 luvdagame, Mar 23, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2014
    hand raised here.

    "sounds like the usual" simply refers to the fact that we have discussed a topic at length on this board more than once. it was not dismissive. in fact i gave answers to the problems that were posed. i gave reasons for "why the heck aren't they (the u20s) starting for our senior team right now" and why it's not a good thing to "cut off their pay" so that they'll voluntarily retire. that's adding to the debate.
     
  9. Calci0

    Calci0 Member

    Jun 22, 2013
    NC
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Vets?!? Please share the names, so I can be on the same page. Also our present and future is bright!!!!! Brian and Dunn are impact players Pugh will be here in another 3-5 years. And with another NWSL season coming up, who knows where the next surprise will be! Barca, losses games, Spain has lost games, the 72-10 Bulls lost games...... Doesn't mean everyone caught up to them and the team needs a complete remodel....
     
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  10. babranski

    babranski Member+

    Dec 15, 2012
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Listen. This is completely out of hand and has become too venomous for my tastes. I don't think what I said warranted this kind of reaction and in turn I overreacted in defending my posts.

    I am not trying to boss anybody around and I'm sorry you guys think that. To me saying to someone that "unacceptable" doesn't belong in a conversation right after he uses it is an indirect way of asking someone to stop using it. Perhaps I read a little bit more between the lines than most people do, but that seems hipocritical to me.

    luv I take issue with how you use those comments, but I understand now why you use them and would certainly not have warranted my response in the end. The continued use in which you used them bothered me and made me think you were set in your ways and comments regardless of the argument before you. From someone who reads between the lines as much as I do, I hope you understand that those two comments are perhaps being taken wrong by others.

    This is a mess guys, and for my part I'm sorry I didn't let it go sooner.
     
  11. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Oh, about a page of debate between user Babranski and user Taosjohn: how interesting! *sarcasm*

    I surely have to keep following this thread: wonderful things keep happening even ten days after AC's end and it's always so informative, lively and very nice to read... *sarcasm*

    *little steps to reach the exit door*
     
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  12. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I was being a bit sarcastic about cutting all the vets! But you got understand certain one's don't stay on the team for God & Country but because they don't want to give up the good pay the USSF pays them.
    We did use a mostly veteran team in our last loss, and you need to look at the Denmark team to see just how bad the 3-5 loss really was;

    a team who scored only 5 goals in 5 games at last year's euros

    a team in part thanks to their 0-0 draw to fifa #70 something, Serbia, are only in 3rd place in wc group qualifiers(thus most likely all ready eliminated)

    a team that vs US was missing their lead scorer, Harder, & their best defender, Roddik-Hansen, due to injuries(yes other teams had their fair share of injuries!)

    A Denmark team that after taking a 3-0 lead, incredibly, at half-time subbed 4 of their 5 back line including their top rated gk, Pedersen(yes, other teams were experimenting too!)

    on our side;
    first time in over an decade that we've had double losses

    first time in two decades we ended up in in last place in group play

    another tidbit, first time an Afghanistani(Nadim who played for Denmark) scored against the US senior team
     
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  13. Smallchief

    Smallchief Member+

    Oct 27, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I would say that the biggest disappointment of the Algarve is that it didn't resolve any of the decisions Sermanni has to make going forward toward the WWC.

    -- Press didn't advance her claim to be a starter vice Wambach
    --Brian didn't advance her claim as starting central midfielder. A new rival appeared, S. Mewis.
    --O'Hara and Heath didn't prove that they are recovered from injuries and ready to play.
    --Dunn didn't play and get a chance to stake her claim to be a starter.
    --Hagen played well enough, and well enough with Press, for her to be added to our long list of competitive forwards.
    --Morgan didn't play so we don't know which forward best complements her. (Actually, we do know. The answer is Wambach, but is that the answer we want?)
    --Boxx still lurks in the background. Can she return?

    So, we continue same-ol', same-ol'. Maybe that's bad; maybe not so bad.
     
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  14. skybolt

    skybolt Member

    Dec 16, 2011
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    I agree. Even with the losses we could've learned a lot more about the team if Sermanni hadn't wasted 2 starts with the Wambach/A-Rod combination. The key to a good experiment is not to pour a bunch of chemicals into a test tube and hope for the best. For instance, what are the odds that the Mewis sisters will start together in any match come the next world cup?! Why bring in Hagen if he was only going to play her 24 minutes in the entire tournament? If he doesn't believe that she fits with the team and just wanted to give her token minutes, then I understand his decision. However, if she's called up into future camps and given starts against weaker opponents, then he missed a great opportunity to give her key minutes in an actual tournament format.

    Moving forward I just want to see how Sermanni will handle the team dynamics. Will he confront Leroux and Press about not passing to each other, or will he let them play selfishly as they compete against each other? Will he have a chat with Holiday regarding how much she actually wants to be a part of this team or does she have other plans in her future? Will he be able to sit all the players down and give each person their role on this team, or will he be a nice guy and make sure everyone gets a start at the next WC? In all honesty, the whole idea of competing with 2 separate teams at the next WC really worries me.
     
  15. skybolt

    skybolt Member

    Dec 16, 2011
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    As far as Press is concerned, if she wants to make this team as a starter she has to learn how to get on good terms with the other forwards. In a perfect world for her, she'd be starting at forward with Hagen as her sidekick. However, in the real world there's still Morgan, Wambach and Leroux to deal with. Not only that, but these players tend to get along with each other really well.

    If Press plays things smart, she'd be better off playing the role of the playmaker instead of trying to outdo the other forward. For instance, if Press and Morgan do start together in a match later this year, Press's main focus should be to give Morgan as may scoring opportunities as possible. If at the end of the match, the US wins 3-0 with 2 goals by Morgan via 2 assists from Press, I guarantee that Morgan will realize Press's contributions and return the favor in the next match. After that point I'm sure the pairing will only get better and better. However, if Press approaches the match wanting to outscore Morgan and make it a competition for the starting spot, she will always be the odd person out when it comes to the forward position. In her mind she may believe that she's the best forward of the 4 on this team, but in reality she needs to leap over a bunch of hurdles before making that clam.
     
  16. ForeverLOST108

    ForeverLOST108 Member+

    Jan 23, 2010
    Orlando
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you heard his interview over at The Soccer Desk it sounded exactly as if that would happen. He'd need to rotate players and ensure that everyone stays fresh. Now, I don't completely disagree with this logic if he were to single out a particular game or two to rest certain players but I do think it is time to begin settling on a set backline, etc. Unfortunately, he specifically stated that the game no longer is about a "set starting 11" and that he'd need contributions from all 23 players.

    He also talked about one of their big determinants for starting lineups is the fitness of each player and whether or not they can start the next game is based on the previous game and how their recovery has been, etc. Makes sense in theory, but I would also argue that Sermanni's subbing tactics make me worried in that regard.

    I don't know if he thinks he can be Guardiola and unveil his lineup to the team only hours before gametime - but this team is not Bayern Munich
     
  17. skybolt

    skybolt Member

    Dec 16, 2011
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    I just hope that come next year his system becomes a lot more simplified than what we saw at the Algarve. For instance, in Sermanni's mind he may believe that each of the 23 players can be an effective starter for this team, and that someone like K. Mewis can play 3 different positions during the tournament,. However, will this system really help team chemistry? That being said, I can certainly see a coach resting 3 starters each match through the first 4 games. By using this rotational system each player will rest for at least 1 match. That way we can have about 15 or 16 potential starters with another 4 or 5 primarily serving as second half subs. If he does the Team A / Team B approach, I'd be really worried if our Team B is starting the semi-final match!
     
  18. EbaJones

    EbaJones Member

    Sep 23, 2009
    Club:
    FFC Frankfurt
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think Dunn will be outside mid-field. My reasoning is as follows: She wants to and has the skill set and speed to play outside midfield; DeVanna proved she has a long ways to go as a defender; she will not play left back on the NT because TS wants a left footer; she will likely be playing midfield with the Spirit (maybe in front of Krieger allowing them to develop some chemistry that can expand to the NT); her college coach and several other respected coaches say outside mid is her spot; and both on the Spirit and NT Krieger is simply a better defender.
     
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  19. skybolt

    skybolt Member

    Dec 16, 2011
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    I actually agree with this. The great thing about Dunn is that she has the speed to recover and make a play on the attacking player if she loses the ball in midfield. I personally think that she can play a dual role in the next WC. She can start at RB for 2 matches to give Krieger a break, and serve as a late sub at outside mid for HAO in the rest of the matches.
     
  20. Semblance17

    Semblance17 Member+

    United States
    Apr 27, 2013
    Lighthouse Point, FL
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    From what I saw of them, I'd have to disagree. Nothing spectacular from either of them, but if I didn't know that they'd been out for months with injuries, I wouldn't have guessed it from the way the played. They seemed to play just about as well as they did in the South Korea games last June. I could be wrong though. They're my two favorites, so maybe I'm a little biased.
     
  21. TeaDrinkerful

    TeaDrinkerful Member

    Aug 29, 2013
    Club:
    --other--
    the only vets are solo, wambach, lloyd, rampone, and kinda O'Reilly
    Solo is VERY good
    Lloyd is fantastic
    O'Reilly is VERY good
    Wambach is blah, but she did not even start vs denmark
    Rampone is Great, they said she is still one of the fastest on the team
    So saying that the veterans are holding us back is plain false, because those veterans are still very very good and the backbone.
     
  22. TeaDrinkerful

    TeaDrinkerful Member

    Aug 29, 2013
    Club:
    --other--
    dude what are you talking about? Heath played 15 minutes vs Japan, how do you judge a player by the 15 minutes? And she played 45 minutes vs Korea(which we did not see) and USA scored 1 goal that was started from her(highlights), and conceded zero. I disagree with you man
     
  23. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Here's the CL quarter final game between Tyreso and an Austrian team. Don't want to spoil it but both Press & Marta have a great game. I got the feeling Press must of been thinking in the back of her mind, why the heck couldn't Sydney pass me the ball like that? lol


    and if interested in more, here is the Wolfsburg vs Barcelona quarter final
     
  24. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006

    Maybe she should have been thinking " how come I only have one assist in 304 minutes on the Nats this year ?"
     
  25. Smallchief

    Smallchief Member+

    Oct 27, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Which is one assist more than Leroux and Wambach have. :)
     

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