That is true. But all and all, you always have a few idiots in the crowd. Punish those and be done with. Reds in general arent to be blamed, hack they signed him up in the first place right? If they were too passive about security and standards on their stadium punish Reds as well naturally. Just I really disliked how racism is being overused in recent times to point fingers at various clubs. I know that in Barcelona, the most hot-headed fans are banned from the games (the ones who thre the pigs head on field when Figo transfered)
Of course you're right in that the actions of supporters are separate from club administration, which should be reflected in any punitive measures carried out. In football around the globe we sometimes blur the distinction, but given my background and perspective I tend toward the detached view - ultimately the league/clubs peddle entertainment, and I'm just a customer. However, the security contractors at SaiSta have reported hearing racist heckling from a number of Urawa "supporters", so at the minimum there should be heavy stadium bans on those involved. If any of the many organized groups were involved, penalties should be handed out there as well. I just want the Reds and J-League to take real action demonstrating a zero tolerance policy for this racist crap. The offenders definitely shouldn't get off with e.g. "genjuu chuui" (stern warning) or some bullshit like that. The reputation of the league as family-friendly entertainment is too high-stakes to jeopardize.
It only takes 2 minutes to search for 浦和 on Youtube and check out for everyone here how it looks. Go and find those boos at Lee yourself. If you'd shut the stands for supporters for someone shouting some racist remarks then the gates of 90% the stadiums around Europe should be shut for good. This isn't an answer to anything. Individuals should be blamed. And keep in mind that Urawa isn't the only club in Japan where a story like could happen.
It's definitely not shocking that it happened at Urawa though... personally I don't think stands should be shut, but I'd expect club should make stronger statements and make sure that the culprits are identified and banned.
I bet it isn't any worse than it is on 'goru no ura' in Suita or few other clubs in Japan. I remember reading a blog post by Ben Mabley if I remember well who took his 'gaijn friend' there once. He himself didn't have any problems there as he knew Japanese, many people from 'core' Gamaba's supporters groups and goes there every time but he was kindly instructed to not invite such 'guests' there. It's common situation in many bigger clubs with few decades of tradition and strong core supporters group I assume all around J League.
Even assuming what you say is true, we are not talking about a public banner there, and that's a serious differene. That there are ill-mannered people in Japan too is no news. But until they keep their mouth shout, it's no problem. I have an european friend in Tokyo who used to attend FC Tokyo games alone and never had any problem whatsoever... I don't think it's that common, honestly.
Reds supporters will not be allowed to bring banners, flags, and related paraphernalia to any match, home or away.
LOL, what a drastic decision. Football without fans is nothing. I think the laws in Japan are too harsh. No Flags, that's very, very harsh.
I'm sure that 90% of other team's supporters are happy with decission and 50% would like to see Reds deprived of some points. Reds lost around 1M $ with the empty stands on the game against Shimizu. This is about the maximum penalty that could be put on a club by J League. Some are thinking more about Shimizu fans who bought the tickets and reserved hotels J League Chairman, Mitsuru Murai, is Urawa supporter so that it's more severe then it should be to not let anyone else say 'he's Reds supporter!'
The supporter group responsible (~20 individuals, including 3 directly involved) has been banned from matches and organized activity indefinitely. When was this about Japanese laws? This is about protecting the J-League's business. That being said, the facts (as reported by Urawa) are pretty damning. The guys responsible shouldn't be let back into a football stadium...and the club handled it badly as well, including the security contractors. ~30 mins pre-match: security noted the "Japanese Only" banner (which appeared for the first time), but one of the guys who put it up said, "there is no problem with this, right?" Security did not escalate the issue. Halftime: fan complains about the banner; security contractor escalates issue. Club staff learns of issue on social media and contacts supervisor as well. Early 2nd half: club directs security to remove banner ~5 mins later: security calls over supporter who posted banner, requests banner removal. "The club ordered its removal. It's on Twitter, gonna be a big problem." Supporter: "No way, we can't take it down now because the match is going on." Supporter returns to stand. (Group has stated no discriminatory or political intent) Later in 2nd half: fan suggests that banner be removed. Security: "We'll remove it after the match. Please don't take pictures, we want to avoid trouble." Post-match: supporter group still fails to comply with removal request. Security staff removes banner. Background: 2010 racism incident against Ryang Yong-gi Matchday 1 vs. Gamba: Reds supporters whistle at "certain player(s)", interpreted by club as possibly discriminatory and leading them to place additional staff to monitor racist behavior (Refers to Reds fans booing Lee?) Cites following underlying issues: Lack of staff sensitivity to discrimination Poor security/admin management and lack of internal communication Historical failure to control supporters (i.e. club getting too cozy with wacko ultras) Security focused more on discriminatory chants toward pitch Security reported discriminatory slurs from Urawa supporter area Several ultras uttered slurs and forced other supporters to put down a flag dedicated to cheering a "certain player." ....wonder who that "player" is....
Ok, but maybe another solution should be founded. For example, the match vs Shimizu should be played with fans, 100km away from Saitama or something like that.
"Later in 2nd half: fan suggests that banner be removed. Security: "We'll remove it after the match. Please don't take pictures, we want to avoid trouble."" Hahaha holy shit really? Guess the JLeague handled this better than I expected. A point penalty would've been the only thing I wouldn't have liked. That doesn't make any sense, sorry. You're basically telling "hey guys you can come. It'll be just a bit more expensive than usual" I don't think flags are going to make any difference on the match, it doesn't sound harsh to me. And fans will come back. What you call drastic is a result of a non-drastic attitude from Urawa
Right, it's outrageous that the J-League has actually taken a very stern view against racism, isn't it? Well done to them for actually doing something unlike most leagues, which just hand out wrist-slap punishments.
Can anyone come up with an example when did closing entire stadiums improved the situation? Or collective responsibility? What happened to Jubilo's fans when they published that banner about Ghotbi for everyone to see? Propose to J League ban for Reds supporters on away games and the entire board would be 'no, no, no!' This stuff is for police, not Urawa Reds or J League to deal with.
The punishment on Urawa is not for the banner. Is for how they handled the situation and it seems reasonable. And your question is quite rhetoric Majster. Can you come up with an example where a drug dealer stopped being a drug dealer when out of prison? Of course I could, and of course many other times it didn't change a thing. We'll see if it works or not after it.
Banning flags and banners are another pointless punishment. It's like banning knives because you can kill someone using it. And if you ban it one stadium, why not expand it on entire league? It could happen again on another stadium in the future after all!
... afaik you're not allowed to bring knifes at a stadium, nor you can bring some type of knifes in your backpack, at least not where I live. I didn't know the ban only applied to Urawa's home stadium, is that so? Either way, I guess if they dare bring that stuff elsewhere again, you'll just go harsher. Of course banning banners in general it's more symbolic. It's only meant to be a punishment
That is not my point at all. Its totally out of proportions to not let 40.000 get in because of a banner.