Groundwork is being laid for a Canadian Franchise

Discussion in 'NWSL Expansion' started by cflsteve, Dec 10, 2013.

  1. cflsteve

    cflsteve Member

    Jul 21, 2013
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Vancouver was origianlly a potential franchise for the NWSL but the Caps droped their Womens program.
    Since then however with the upcoming WWC The WCs, City of Vancouver, and UBC is building an National soccer training facility on the UBC Campus. This could include a 5K or so seat game pitch that would solve the problem of having a soccer specific venue for a club instead of playing at the UBC football field.
    With the original plans of building a SSS for the Caps on hold since the BC place set up has been very good.

    TFC is in the middle of building a brand new state of the art practice facility as well. It will include of course pelnty of pitches as well as pleny of locker room facilities. So whether that would include a seated stadium or the TFC/MLSE could use BMO field.
     
  2. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    While all of that is well and good for Canadian soccer in general, do you have any evidence that any of those are actually being done with women's squads at any level in mind/in consideration?
     
  3. cflsteve

    cflsteve Member

    Jul 21, 2013
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    There was evidence that Vancouver was in the original conversation and there was some light talk about Toronto in the future.
    This was not meant to be anything more than what it was that there is groundwork being made for the possibility of having a team in a Canadian city. Nothing more nothing less:)
     
    Nacional Tijuana repped this.
  4. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Ah, okay. Yeah, I remember the original talk of Vancouver and the more recent stuff with Toronto.

    So this is really just general development, and no actual hint that either city has someone actively looking in to NWSL.
     
  5. cflsteve

    cflsteve Member

    Jul 21, 2013
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Yea sorry did not mean to imply anything else exept that the two Canadian cities that were in the converstion have some developments that could be a good home for a real soccer field and not a University Football stadium with football lines.
    Something that could develop after the WWC post 2015 season
     
  6. Forgedias

    Forgedias Member

    Mar 5, 2012
    To continue with this theme. With the recent news that the MLS Houston Dynamo's will field a women's team for the NWSL I think serious consideration needs to be looked at with Toronto being the next franchise to join the league as the 10th team.

    Toronto in my opinion would be the holy grail for NWSL, not because its Canadian and women's soccer is very popular in Canada. But its the ownership group that is key here. Toronto FC is owned by MLSE, short for Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment. A juggernaut in sports, they own the NHL Maple Leafs, NBA Raptors and MLS Toronto FC, plus one of the owners Rogers Communications owns the MLB Blue Jays. So in essence that group owns all the major sport enterprise properties in Toronto. In the MLSE ownership group, its divided into 3 owners, two of them are big communication conglomerates in Rogers Communications who own the TV sport network Sportsnet and Bell Canada that owns the TV network TSN. Recently Rogers Communications bought the TV rights to the NHL in Canada for 5.2 billion dollars for 12 years. So in money terms, these are very big enterprises.

    For the NWSL to get the MLSE ownership group involved would be huge, unlike any of the other ownership groups, they don't come with a TV package deal, nor do they have the revenue streams that this group has. All 3 MLS teams in Canada are regularly broadcast on the sports platforms and would do the same for a team in the NWSL. That may sound good on paper but for a fan looking on from the outside how is that any help for the league and the teams in it. Well Rogers or Bell would have to pay a TV rights fee to broadcast the NWSL matches and because women's football is popular in Canada, they would pay a decent amount. Remember the MLSE group is about leveraging their sport properties to the fullest ability so they can benefit from it when they so broadcasts from it. Rogers is spending 100 million in payroll for the Blue Jays, top 5 in the MLB, the Maple Leafs are at 60 million, near their cap allowance, Raptors same thing. For the MLSE group, owning a sports franchise and using their sports network to broadcast their games go hand in hand.

    And this is where the TV rights deal would benefit the league. Lets pick a lowball number and then work from there. Say Rogers or Bell or even both were to offer 2 million a year for the first few years to broadcast rights. Seems pretty low when you consider how much Rogers paid to own the TV rights to the NHL, but we are talking about women's football. 2 million would be huge for the NWSL. So in a 1o team league, that 2 million would be split 200 thousand per team. Some of that would help push the cap up and voila, instead of a 200k cap, we may see a 300k cap or higher. And what about revenue sharing, the NHL has it, if we are looking at bringing MLS owners with their stadiums into the NWSL then revenue sharing has to be considered since there will be a big disparity of revenue between the MLS owners and the other teams without. Toronto FC alone has 16 000 season ticket holders, one of the highest in MLS. Many of those will become season ticket holders for an NWSL team, I wouldn't be surprised if we see something like 10 000 season ticket holders for Toronto. If you averaged out the cost of a ticket at 25 dollars and 10 000 average attendance over a 11 match home games, that comes out to 2 750 000 dollar. And this is conservative because we are not taking into account luxury boxes, VIP seats. With BMO Field able to hold 22 000 people, 10 000 is very conservative. The Toronto FC have had 7 straight losing seasons since joining the MLS and they sell out all their games. They have huge football support in Toronto and if a women's team were to do better which isn't hard to envision, I think they would sell out as well.

    So what happens if Toronto is able to sell out matches and pulls in 5, 6 or 7 million revenue? They would blow every other team away, for a small cap of 300-400k they would be easily profitable. But how to you balance this out and help the smaller market teams and in doing so raise the cap so players can be paid well for their work. Revenue sharing. Even if the revenue sharing is smaller say in the 400k range, that still would help out all the teams. And if Toronto does sell out like I think they would. 7 million revenue can easily be generated. Its hard not to see Toronto not offering a higher revenue sharing figure like 800k or a million. The Maple Leafs are supposedly giving 40 million a year in revenue sharing. Tells how much revenue the Maple leafs are producing.

    So what are the benefits of a Toronto franchise in NWSL? It would be massive.

    1) TV rights deal
    2) Potential revenue sharing deal

    Even if its the smaller ball park range of both these figures, the league would benefit. They need a revenue generator like Toronto to join the league as the 10th team.
     
  7. Blaze20

    Blaze20 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Seattle Reign FC
    Sep 22, 2009
    Club:
    Philadelphia Independence
    Maybe its time then for Canadian fans to start writing to their local MLSE representatives about bringing a team to Canada :). As the recent Houston expansion has thought us, if the right ownership group is interested, NWSL governing group is not going to be a problem.
     
  8. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Right, whether that's a problem or not...
    Also, FYP.
     
  9. Blaze20

    Blaze20 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Seattle Reign FC
    Sep 22, 2009
    Club:
    Philadelphia Independence
    Well I was trying to be nice to the NWSL:p
     
  10. cflsteve

    cflsteve Member

    Jul 21, 2013
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    The Canadian Women's team sold out there first friendly on Canadian soil out in about an hour with tickets ranging form 150 - 300 dollars at BMO field.

    The cost for a NWSL team for the MLSE would be a drop in the bucket for the multimillions it costs to run its other clubs so $$$ would not be an issue and they currently have the contract to manage BMO so adding a womens team would be of minimum costs for stadium use.

    Merchandise sales as mentioned above would be sold at all MLSE events including Leafs, Raptors, TFC, Marlies AHL, as well as recently acquiring the Toronto Lynx as TFCs USL affiliate.

    Currenlty they are bargaing to have the Lynx play outside the the city of Toronto at Tim Horton's but with the new training facility being built in Missuaga couldn't they add a game stadium with a seating capacity of 7-10K with suites for the Lynx and NWSL franchise which would place them out of the City of Toronto in the suburban Peel Region.
     
  11. cflsteve

    cflsteve Member

    Jul 21, 2013
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Taking a look a little closer at the ownership groups and soccer programs in Canada Ottawa may be in the best position out of any group to be the first expansion team in Canada.

    1. The Ownership Group OSEG

    http://ottawfuryfc.com/index.php?id=862

    They already have the store setup for their already popular OHL 67's and have added the NASL Fury and CFL REDBLACKS for a one stop shopping for OSEG merchandise.

    2. Ottawa Fury already have a W-League team and a Youth Program academy in the super Y league for boys and girls U 10 to U19.

    3. Ottawa Fury W- League since 2003 and have finished 1st or 2nd every season with some National Championship appearances.

    4. They will have a NASL brother Club in which to promote together for soccer as well as their OHL and CFL teams.

    5. OSEG has control of a brand new stadium in Landsdowne park

    http://www.ottawafuryfc.com/
     
  12. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What kind of record does Ottawa have for women's soccer attendance?
     
  13. cflsteve

    cflsteve Member

    Jul 21, 2013
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    They currently play at the 2.000 seat soccer stadium at Algonquin college. SO the attendance is no higher than that obviously. A move to a higher profile league could bring much more attnetion and attendance but I see where you are coming from with the larger Landsdowne Park stadium.

    Just some food for thought.

    They could be a lot more high profile than a club in Toronto and be done with much more care from the ownership group.

    Will have to see how the NASL club is received
     
  14. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  15. holden

    holden Member+

    Dundee FC, Yeovil Town LFC, Girondins de Bordeaux
    Oct 20, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Dundee FC
    It's also around 2.5 hours from Rochester. Yet people say LA and SD are too close...

    The article says they would play at Tim Hortons Field, which means another artificial turf surface. It also holds 22,500... so it's a bit big.
     
  16. cflsteve

    cflsteve Member

    Jul 21, 2013
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    It is a bit big but would place a teamin canada and regional rival to the Flash. THF is also able to convert from football lines to no lines for a regular soccer pitch. Also could be a sister club to a Hamilton NASL club and part of the Tiger Cats organiztion. Now a independent owner of a NWSL teamin Hamilton may not be financially viable but being part of a bigger whole with CFL and NASL and it begins to make more sense financially.
    I often wonder if this could happen in Ottawa as well. the Fury already have a full womens academy and W league team and would be part of OSEG OHL 67's, CFL REDBLACKS, NASL Fury. OSEG also manages D place.
    THF is owned by the city but Ti Cats owner has exlusive soccer rights and through there deal would also receive the naming rights money for there field lease as a partner with the city and less of a tennant.
     
  17. TsovLoj

    TsovLoj Member

    Aug 16, 2012
    The comparison would be a bit more appropriate if you had to go through customs. That's going to take a fair bit of time for most people. If people were arguing LA and Tijuana were too close, that'd be a better point.

    For a city of Ottawa's size there isn't much going on there, particularly in the hockey offseason. It's a sleepy town. There wouldn't be much competition for people's attention.
     
  18. holden

    holden Member+

    Dundee FC, Yeovil Town LFC, Girondins de Bordeaux
    Oct 20, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Dundee FC
    My point was that they aren't too close... but I can see how my statement does seem ambiguous if you hadn't read my response to the LA and SD being to close suggestion, which was in another thread.
     
  19. cflsteve

    cflsteve Member

    Jul 21, 2013
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    We will see what kinda crowd the Fury gets at TD very soon. opening weekend kicks off with CFL on Friday and Fury vs Cosmos sunday. Also a big time friedly on that WED vs Rangers
     
  20. cflsteve

    cflsteve Member

    Jul 21, 2013
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    I am still looking at the possible expansion into Canada. W-league teams in both Ottawa and Toronto. Both have development systems in place for the Woman's sides and Men's sides. Both have the possible connection to top ownership groups OSEG Ottawa and MLSE Toronto both already sporting pro mens sides in the NASL and MLS respectfully along with a stable of other sports franchises and new venues just built along with top reno's coming.
    World Cup will be at the Ottawa site and the CWNT draw huge in Toronto.
    I would look for talks coming post 2015 WWC.
    Vancouver is looking for its own USLPro team with partners to be played in a new reno'd pitch just outside the city.
    In the east a natural rival with WNY and out west the Seattle, Portland, and Vancouver rivalry is already in place.
     
  21. warh2os

    warh2os Member

    Oct 29, 2007
    Right know it is most likely that if MLS Toronto is interested, they would be the only choice.
     
  22. cflsteve

    cflsteve Member

    Jul 21, 2013
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    I agree they would be the likely choice do to the TFC club and its ownership group MLSE.
    I would wonder if they would just use BMO field for their regular home games or could/would they look to convert one of the one of the pitches in Downsview for a smaller capacity venue specific for NWSL. When looking to add a USLPro club TFC/MLSE looked to play outside of the crowded downtown Toronto Area but were turned down by the city of Hamilton and its new stadium.
    Downsview is closer to some of the bigger municipalities in the northern GTA area suburbs which there may be more girls youth soccer programs. TFC will likely own its own or partner own their own USLPRO side as well that could play out of the same venue.
     
  23. warh2os

    warh2os Member

    Oct 29, 2007
    If the other site or sites you are talking about are owned and operated by MLS Toronto, then that is a possibility, if not, it probably would not be cost effective. It is all about putting to good use the soccer facility they already have.
     
  24. bythesea

    bythesea Member

    May 27, 2005
    The optimistic could think of the USLPro team as a model for NWSL. It could involve another set of partners and use the same stadium. I'm not familiar with Queen's Park Stadium but I assume it would need considerable expansion of seating for a viable NWSL franchise. I take it that the City of New Westminster is willing to work with a pro team and Burnaby, which owns Swanguard, wasn't.
     
  25. holden

    holden Member+

    Dundee FC, Yeovil Town LFC, Girondins de Bordeaux
    Oct 20, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Dundee FC
    It seems that the stadium is actually a former minor league ballpark. There's a nice slideshow of images here: http://www.digitalballparks.com/NWL/Westminster1.html. According to one article I read, the capacity is around 2,000.
    [​IMG]
    Looks like they'll have to extend one side out as the current ones wouldn't even reach the middle of the field. The 3rd base side looks easier to expand as it's just parking lot behind it, whereas the 1st base side has the entrance from the street. Perhaps they'll demolish the old wooden 3rd base stands and build a all new grandstand with a modern press box. And if they don't care about using it for baseball anymore, they could build a new stand in right field (which will also help reduce noise getting to those homes).
     

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