I agree that United is not the best name for the Minnesota team. Real Salt Lake, D.C. United, and Sporting K.C. aren't the best either. It reminds me of how some of the minor league baseball teams take the names of major league baseball teams. The team colors aren't bad; light blue, white, and black. Not the best but not the worst. The important question though is when are the Twin Cities going to get a MLS team. The Twin Cities metro area is the 14th largest metro area in the U.S., with a prosperous and growing population. When the North American Soccer league was in Minnesota back in the 1980s and early 1990s, Minnesota was always in the top ten markets in North America for attendance. In many ways the Minneapolis/St. Paul area is more like a northwest city than a midwest city; the demographics, culture, politics, and so forth. It has more in common with Seattle, Portland, or the western Canadian cities than with most of the midwest cities. The Twin Cities metro is a healthy, well-educated, modern, high tech, growing metro area with a strong economy, a great alternative rock band scene, great education and universities, alot of new high tech industries, and a great sports town, both in watching and playing sports. And like Seattle, Portland, and the Canadian cities, it is a soccer town.
Haha. No, Minnesota United won't turn into another Milwaukee Wave United. Minnesota is a better soccer state than our friends and neighbors are in Wisconsin.
It's the 16th (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_United_States_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas). Miami, Atlanta, San Francisco, Riverside, Detroit, and Phoenix are higher, and San Diego will probably be higher after the next census. Just something to think about
San Francisco already has a team in San Jose, same metro area. The same with Riverside, they are in the L.A. metro area, and they have the two L.A. teams. The Detroit metro area is losing population, and Atlanta isn't a great town for soccer. Neither is Phoenix. Minnesota, San Diego, and Florida are the best choices, and eventually they will all have teams in MLS. The important question is whether the team will draw. Portland, Vancouver, and Salt Lake City, all have significantly smaller metro areas than Minneapolis/St. Paul, but they draw well for soccer. So will Minnesota. It has been proven before when they had a major league soccer team. And the Minneapolis/St. Paul area is a prosperous, growing metro area than can easily support a team. And it will, once it gets a MLS team.
I remember a story a few years ago that the Detroit Silverdome was for sale for only $500,000. That is less than I paid for my house in San Jose. You would think someone could buy it for that and fix it up.
that is why you still have a roof Pontiac Silverdome Damaged By Strong Winds « CBS Detroit detroit.cbslocal.com/.../pontiac-silverdome-damaged-by-strong-wind... Jan 22, 2013 – Strong winds over the past few days have damaged what is left of the roof at the Pontiac Silverdome.
Someone did. It was to be the centerpiece of some Frankensteinian plan that included an MLS stadium. I don't know what the roof damage does to those plans.
The recent history of MLS expansion teams seems to bear that out. The landscape has certainly changed in soccer on these shores over time. MLS expansion teams - maybe because of the level of due diligence MLS does now (because it's a chooser, no longer a begger) or because of the extent of the buy-in or a myriad of other reasons - have, largely, been successful. That said, it's not all about metro population. And what NASL teams drew in 1981 doesn't really apply anymore. But (insert market here) will get an MLS team when someone decides to apply for one and the Board of Governors decides it would be in the league's best interests to include that market and that ownership group. Not before. It's not Don Garber's call. It's not entirely about the attendance you get in DII or DIII. It's about what you can bring to the table, and what the BOG feels should be done strategically. They're reaching the point where they're far closer to the end of expansion than they were (no matter how many people try to tell you they can/should go to 30 or 32 teams or more) and there are some benefits to a league having more interested potential investors than actual investors. If Minnesota United's new owner has MLS ambitions, great. Anyone who has those ambitions has seen that it can be done. Not overnight, but it can be done. That doesn't mean, necessarily, that you want to miss supporting the team you have because it's not the team you want (yet). Everybody nowadays is all "MLS, MLS, MLS, when do we get into MLS?" Relax.
Haha! I am relaxed. But I will be honest with you, minor league soccer doesn't do it for me. I am used to watching the top European clubs on the soccer stations, so I am spoiled in that regard. MLS is good enough quality where I can enjoy that, but minor league soccer doesn't have the quality. I am glad that some people support minor league soccer, and of course strong support for a minor league team makes it easier to attract a MLS team to the area. Yet it is still minor league soccer, the quality is not there, it just isn't. Eventually the MLS will have as many teams as the other major sports, it will have at least 30 teams, because of the demographics of America. The Hispanics are growing, and young people of all ethnicities are now playing soccer more than any other sport, and are also watching it more. For 12-30 year olds, soccer is the most popular sport for watching for girls and young women, and the second most watched sport for boys and young men, after NFL football. People have cable or satellite dish, and it is incredible how many young adults I have met who know about the top clubs in Europe, as well as MLS clubs. My daughter is a young adult, and she and her boyfriend and their male and female young adult friends are all are into soccer. My college aged niece and her friends are also into it. It seems most of the young adults I meet appreciate soccer. This has changed dramatically over the past twenty years. Soccer (genuine football) is finally getting somewhere in America. Soccer will only grow in this country.
That's progress. It wasn't too many years ago that people said "European leagues are good enough quality where I can enjoy that, but MLS doesn't have the quality." Would you expect it would be? I mean, why would you expect it would be? The experience of having a team of your own, and going to its games (assuming they're presented in a proper fashion - think Pittsburgh 2013 rather than Pittsburgh prior to 2013) can be enjoyed for what it is, and not for what it is not. You can choose to hold out for only the best, and that's your right as a consumer. But I'm telling you - you're missing out. It's not "the MLS" and it won't have "at least 30 teams." 30 teams means 30 (or 29 or 28) owners with the willingness to invest, 30 stadiums and almost 800 players. I don't see 30 happening. That's true. And it has. We don't disagree on that. We disagree on the ceiling.
I am refering to the long haul when I say 30 teams or more. I don't mean in the next few years. But twenty, thirty, fifty years from now, of course there will be at least 30 teams. America will have 375 million to 400 million people then, the young people of today will be running things, things will be more their way, and they will have their kids playing and watching soccer, taking them to the games, plus watching the European leagues and the improving North American soccer and soccer will grow. Soccer will gradually take it's place amongst the major league sports. The wealthy owners will eventually be there, including corporate sponsors and owners, because the opportunity will be there, the sport will be growing, and the money will eventually follow. I hope sooner than later, but it will happen. I agree, people should support their minor league team, but I am a fairly busy guy and have my work , family and friends, and my interests, and going to a minor league soccer game isn't my top priority. But I am not disagreeing with you, of course I am glad that many people support minor league soccer.
Do you always do only your top priorities? No one's asking you to buy season tickets. But "the quality just isn't there" is a cop-out. Just go, once. You've already expended more energy in this thread than it would take to go to a MUFC game. And the NFL has had 28+ teams for the last 37 years, but hasn't grown past 32 (and it's the biggest). MLB has had 26+ teams for the last 36 years, but has only added four since 1977. If you think a soccer league is going to be the biggest league in the country, I can't agree with you. "Of course" there will be more. You don't know that. None of us do. There is no "of course."
I never said I never went to minor league soccer games, why do you assume that I have never been to minor league soccer games? I have been to several of them. I am just not that interested in it. I am not "copping out", I have been to minor league soccer games. Just accept the fact that some soccer fans just don't like minor league soccer that much. If you like minor league soccer that is fine, go to the games, but no need to argue with me about it, or tell me that I am "missing out" if I don't go to minor league games. I know what minor league soccer is, I have been to games, and I don't feel like I am "missing out", by not going. I do other things instead that I enjoy. I just don't care that much about minor league soccer games. And yes, I usually do things that are my priorities, I don't waste my time that I have off of work doing things I don't enjoy that much, (unless I have to). Why should I? Do you? I spend time with family and friends I care about, and usually do things that I enjoy. As far as there being no "of course", that is true, we don't know for sure how many MLS teams there will be in the future, 20, 30, or 50 years from now. But the odds are good that considering the popularity of soccer with the young, and the growing overall population that is expected in America (most studies project 375 million to 400 million in America in the next 50 years), there will be more MLS teams. And Hispanics are growing and they generally like soccer, although increasing numbers of young people of all ethnicities like soccer, especially the kids and young adults.. And there are still 10 or 15 sizeable metro areas that have other major league sports that don't yet have MLS teams, and many of those metros are growing. I have read some of the studies of the growth rate and projected growth rates of metro areas in North America, and of course many of the sunbelt metros are growing, and even some of the northern metros are growing, especially the Seattle and Minneapolis/St. Paul, metro areas (and those areas have been amongst the fastest growing metros in the north over the past twenty five years, and are projected to continue to grow over the next twenty five years, due to strong and diverse economies, and the fact they are regional and cultural centers in their respective regions). But it is true, no one knows for sure how many MLS teams there will be in the future, but if I were betting , I would bet there will eventually be 30 MLS teams or more, I believe it is not a question of if, but when. I would be willing to bet that with the growth of popularity in soccer and the growth in the population, including a growing Hispanic group, and the popularity of soccer with the young of all ethnicities, (and their eventual economic clout as they become the bread winning adults), that there will be 30 or more MLS teams. But of course I c0ould be wrong, any of us could be. But I would bet that I am right. We will find out I guess. Anyway, we have both made our points on this topic.
But isn't all soccer outside The Champions league "minor league" soccer? (Outside National team soccer)
Haha! You are spoiled! Only the European Champions league and the best national teams are truly major league soccer? Some people I suppose believe that. I do love the European Champions League, but I watch some of the European domestic league games as well, and on occasion an MLS game. But I agree, the best pro soccer teams in Europe are incredible. With soccer, I watch mostly European soccer.
So is really the degree of minor league that you would be ok with watching. if you already watch say La Liga/EPL and watch teams outside the champions that is like watching AAA baseball already. Watch lower leagues like Brazil, MX, J-league, Netherlands and you are watching AA ball. MLS, SPL, "Scandinavian" East European, some top D2's are say single A. So NASL is like watching Rookie ball (is there a level below A?). So I guess the question is at what minor league level you say fuck it this is too minor league for me.
With me, I usually watch the better domestic leagues in Europe, like the EPL, and La liga, as well as the European Champions League, and the Europa league. I do watch some of the better MLS teams on occasion. And I watch some of the better Scandinavian, East European, Belgian, Swiss, Dutch teams and so forth when they are in the Champions league or the Europa league. Some of those teams have quality. To me, the major leagues are the European Champions League, along with some of the better Europa League teams, and the best domestic leagues in Europe, like the EPL, La Liga, Serie A, and Bundesliga. I know some people that don't like it if someone refers to MLS as a "minor league", but in comparison to the top domestic leagues in Europe, it is. However it is gradually improving. If and when it ever gets to the top European level, who knows? And yes, it is true, some people enjoy going to minor league soccer games, even if the quality isn't as good, because it is a chance for them to get together with people at the soccer stadium. It can be fun. And of course parents like taking their little kids, young guys take their young ladies on dates there, people go as a group, or just by themselves, if they are in the mood, and so forth. On that level, it can be fun. Also, as was mentioned, supporting the minor league team does help a metro area, if people are interested in eventually getting a MLS team.
Haha. I assume you are being sarcastic. Maybe people who find this thread superfluous or too pedantic are to dumb to understand it or follow it. If you find this thread to be superfluous or pedantic, you don't need to read it. If you don't have anything constructive to add to this thread you can ignore it instead of making snide comments. People on this thread have brought up the details they feel are relevant on this subject, and have expressed their opinions on this.
I don't find this thread superfluous or pedantic, I find an exploration of the subtle nuances of your completely arbitrary threshold regarding what quantifies something as "minor league" (a term defined by your non-tangible, and thoroughly individualized colloquialism of the word) to be superfluous and pedantic—as it has no tangible relevance to anything other than your current pontification.
Yes that is true, one person's definition of minor league could be different than another. Regardless, I find the thread at least somewhat interesting, and people have brought their own definitions of "minor league" to the thread, as well as their opinions on which cities will get MLS teams, and so forth.