What about the AAFC? They formed after WWII and rivaled the NFL in talent and popularity. Eventually the NFL bought them out by the end of the 1949 season, and the league absorbed the Browns, Colts, and 49ers. The Super Bowl was between the champions of two seperate entities (AFL-NFL) for the first four years, but in 1970 the leagues merged and 3 AFL teams moved over to the new "NFC". As a Vikings fan that means I can say we have an NFL championship (1969).
But in case of Germany, they are playing still for the same championship. The name of the title is not "Bundesliga championship". The official name has always been "German Championship" and teams still get the same trophy that was handed out before the formation of the Bundesliga. However, it's not true that there were no rival championships in Germany. Prior to the formation of the DFB two other associations played out a German championship: The BDF (two championships) and the DFuCB (11 championships). After the formation other associations played out national championships: The ATSB (1920-1932), the DJK (1921-1932), the DT (1925-1930), and Rotsport (1931-1932). The DFB before 1933 was mainly a middle class organization, while working class clubs (and Catholic clubs) played their own championships. Especially the working class ATSB, with nearly 1 million members, had attendances in the 4 to 5 digits to games and fielded it's own national team (which played against other socialist NTs).
Apparently the Viktoria was the trophy from 1903-49, but had to be replaced with the Meisterschale because it had been lost (but since found) http://www.dfb.de/index.php?id=504415 A map of the DFB and DFV champions with a list here http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_Deutschen_Fußballmeister (looks like there wasn't a German Champion, at least by name, in the years directly after WW II.
In the very early years it wasn't even bound to national boundaries. Prague became German vice champion I think, back when it was part of Austria-Hungary. So the Austrian and the German football federations were competing about clubs as well (and back then Austria did have a somewhat stronger league).
Yeah (although technically it was only used until 1944), true. I didn't mention it because in this case getting a new trophy was unrelated to changes in the competition (as the old one was simply thought lost), and the new trophy has been used since 1949 anyway, so still way before the Bundesliga. The first national championship after the war was played in 1947/48 (still including East German teams, btw - although the East German entry into the play off later withdrew). There was no national championship played between 1945 and 1947.
Only in the very first season - the DFB joined FIFA after that, and FIFA banned clubs from outside the German Empire to take part in the championship. However, Austria didn't have a national league until after WWII. The "Austrian" championship before 1945 was contested by teams from Vienna only (but it was a pro league, unlike the German leagues). So a club from Prague couldn't have taken part there anyway.
You had to get all 2nd Reich on us Although Prague was part of the Autro-Hungarian empire, DFC Prag (Deutscher Fussball Club Prag) was composed of German Jews living in Prague. I think this has more to do with the politics and migration of people during that time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DFC_Prag
Not German as in German citizens. The first German championship was open to ethnic German clubs from all over Europe, although in the end only the FA of ethnic Germans in Bohemia did send an entry, most other clubs couldn't take part for financial reasons (even within the German Empire many clubs who could have played withdrew for the same reasons).
I asked this in the Bayern forum, I'll ask it here too. What was the earliest (in terms of match day) that a club has won the BuLi in its current 18 team form? What I mean, what is the earliest match day after which a team is the champion, because any permutation of results in the subsequent matchdays won't result in any of the other teams catching up with the said team. Currently, after 21 matchdays, BvB have a 12 point lead at the top. Has such a feat ever been achieved?
the league changed to the 3-point system in 95/96, so it would be hard to compare before then. Since then: Bayern won the league by 15 points in 98/99 (and had a 12-point lead after 21 matchdays) http://www.fussballdaten.de/bundesliga/1999/ by 16 points in 02/03 (and had a 12-point lead after 21 matchdays) http://www.fussballdaten.de/bundesliga/2003/ by 14 points in 04/05 (and was even with Schalke after 21 matchdays) http://www.fussballdaten.de/bundesliga/2005/ Under spieltag, you can go back week-by week to see when they clinched.
Not that hard - as long as you know the number of wins each team had you can easily calculate it. And the three points rule hasn't made it harder for teams to win the championship early. Anyway, the earliest a team ever won the championship was on the 30th matchday. Bayern did in 1973 - they won the league by 11 points (20 points with 3 pts/win) in the end. After 21 matches they led by 4 (9 with 3 pts/win) points. The 2003 team also won the championship on matchday 30 - so far the only two instances of this happening.
Actually, I would argue the other way. The 3 point for a win system has made it easier for a team to win the BuLi earlier. Just consider a simple case, where after 30 games, you have a situation where Bayern are 30-0-0 and BvB are 28-2-0 (W-D-L). Totally hypothetical. Both the Bayern vs BvB encounters are pending. If this was a pre 95 BuLi, BvB would need 1 game to catch up, provided Bayern lose. In a post 95 BuLi, BvB would need 2 games to catch up (or overtake), even if Bayern lose. etc
Depends - for a team with many wins and few draws it's become easier. But a team that is 10-5-0 (again, W-D-L) for example would have a more comfortable lead over a team that is 10-0-5 under the 2 point rule than it would be under the current 3 point rule (3 points/win: the second team needs at least 2 games to catch up, 2 points/win: the second team needs at least 3 games to catch up). The key is the number of draws, since those have been devalued. In some cases the gap also stays the same basically: Team a 11-1-0 : 34/23 pts Team b 10-0-2 : 30/20 pts In both cases team B needs 1 win and 1 draw to catch up (always assumed Team A looses the next two matches of course).
OK, this seems like the best "general" Bundesliga thread to put this in... I might be traveling to Munich in October for work and I am thinking it would be nice to catch a game while I'm there. I looked at the BL fixture list and it looks like there are no matches on the weekend of 7-8-9 October . I realize this is an International weekend,b ut doesn't the BL II play anyway, cionsidering that most internationals would be in the top division? I was hoping there would be some live matches in the Munich area, maybe 1860? Thanks
Bundesliga 1, 2 and 3 do not play on this weekend. The Regionalliga does, but unfortunately Bayern II has an away game. 1860 II does play at home on the 7th of October, but I don't know if there's anything interesting in TSV 1860 München II - Karlsruher SC II.
If you're looking for a club to follow in the BuLi I suggest Borussia Dortmund. They're a young team with loads of talent and they're playing in the Champions League this year.
1860 II gets pretty good crowds (by reserve standards), though - especially as the first team isn't playing there should at least be a lot of supporters there. The game on the other hand will likely be kind of a friendly - there's no relegation in the Regionalliga, and neither team will fight for promotion.
Since many people ask how the select a club, here is a flowchart: (click onto the photo to enlarge it)
hahah!! i enjoy the Bundesliga flow chart. A few months ago during the NBA lockout the podcast 'Men in Blazers' created a NBA to EPL team conversion thing. I think someone should do this with the NFL to BuLi and 2.BuLi. I'm not that well versed in the history of german football, the details behind most of the clubs but Im a Green Bay Packer fan and my first thought was "hmm a successful team from the north with fan-ownership(before i knew about 50+1 rule) and maybe SOME deep pockets or ability to compete year after year(despite green bay's fan-owned status they are one of the richest teams in the NFL)" Anyone interested in doing this? as far as green bay is concerned I would guess werder bremen but im still not sure...
I am new to following the Bundesliga, and I have a couple questions about fixtures. According to Bayern Munich's website, a home fixture is tentatively scheduled for 15.12.12. But Bayern Munich’s website states “Final dates and kick-off times for Bundesliga fixtures are not confirmed until a few weeks before matches. The fixture programme as currently published is provisional.“ It appears that Bayern Munich could play Borussia Monch. on 14.12.12; 15.12.12; or 16.12.12. Two questions: 1. What is the reason behind the uncertain fixture date for that weekend? 2. On what date will they announce the fixture date for that weekend? Are we talking one week before the fixture, two weeks, three weeks??? Danke!