Obama Failure Thread Part IV

The worst part about all of this is not that stanger is callous, but that stanger is wrong. The American health care "status quo" is not even a thing you can talk about. When compared to the lifetime of a relatively recent national health care system (the UK), America's system is young and chaotic. LBJ's creation of Medicare/Medicaid in the mid 1960s. Nixon's adoption of HMOs in the early 1970s. The Medicare fixes in the 1980s and 1990s. Bill Clinton's reform proposal (that died before becoming law, thank the heavens), along with the rise of PPOs and PIPs and all the other acronyms out there. George W. Bush with Medicare Part D. S-CHIP. All of the myriad state health-care changes and fixes over the years. The only real constant in all of this is the rise in cost for everyone involved.

What stanger is actually proposing, if you read through the bullshit, is to let the free market handle the insurance and coverage issues. What this position actually implies is that stanger has absolutely no idea how the health markets work, has no interest in finding out, and has resigned himself to a cynical worldview to conceal his complete and total ignorance on the issue. He may be more eloquent and friendly than the other trolls here, but he is nevertheless a troll. He has no interest in doing anything beyond spouting his asinine worldview totally devoid of evidence or facts. This is why the full gamut of liberals and moderates on this thread could not convince him otherwise. From cognitive dissonance to confirmation bias to an outright fear of education, stanger's got it all. He just took writing 101, and that separates him from the rest of the pack.

 

You're such a pompous asshole.

While I personally think Stanger's POV makes about as much sense as a bucket of walrus crap, it's his bucket of walrus crap. If you have a problem with his view, either explain why or don't. But you don't get to call someone names just because you disagree with them. I'm not sure who made you the arbiter of what is an acceptable viewpoint and what isn't.

 

Is it my bad memory or the same people who were crying about 'death panels' now worried that too many people will want medical care? Arent they just admitting that the current system of allocating care based on economics IS the 'death panel' and that they support it?

 

They are not admitting it consciously. But yes subconsciously they acknowledge the reality.

 

I think I just did - the American health care system is nothing as stanger described it and has never been as he described it. There is no status quo for him to defend, no 'system' that anybody can coherently articulate for him to support. Defenders of American health care are defending such a complex system that entire books are written just to discuss portions of it. Not to analyze proposals or introduce proposals, just to DESCRIBE it. In light of any or all of that information, not to mention all of the other information just out there or presented on BigSoccer, the fact that stanger has dug in his heels leads me to very few - if any - conclusions on the state of his knowledge about health care.

 

Admission to Grad School

 

I have always been in favored of death panels, shit I am in favor or having an age limit (aka expiration date). We need some cost controls.

 

The difference between you and me is that while you were pontificating, I was at the doctors office. At 4:45, which is after hours. Turns out my girls both got a staph infection and needed an antibiotic. So, I saw a doctor, got a prescription, got it filled and got home in about 2.5 hours.

If it aint broke, don't fix it.

All the stuff you people have been spouting would be great if any of it worked the way you thought it should, but we don't know that it will.

I know the current system worked today.

 

Horray for me. F everybody else. The American way?

 

What you say?

 

This is a textbook example of an anecdotal logical fallacy.

 

I can't prove that the Sun will rise tomorrow. I don't know it will happen. But, we've got a pretty good idea based on math and observation and stuff. My pontificating doesn't stop me from being pretty darn sure - based on math and stuff - that what just happened to you today with the girls' staph infection will continue happening tomorrow whether or not we give 50 million other people what you have. Your refusal to accept it is irrelevant, because everybody here is pretty darn sure - due to math and stuff - that you're wrong, and I'm pretty darn sure - thanks to observation and stuff - that you're an idiot hiding behind a just-ever-so-slightly better education than pf and nicky. If that makes me a pompous asshole, so be it, but it'd be nice if we had some honesty about the reality of the right side of the aisle.

http://content.healthaffairs.org/content/22/3/77.short

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/3550637?uid=3739600&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21100944516313

http://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPa...handle=hein.journals/stanlp3&div=18&id=&page=

All three of these articles are available in their entirety either through the links provided or by clicking links on the page. All three show that universal health care does not exacerbate costs; in fact, the second article explicitly says in the abstract that the worry is about costs declining and leading to deflation of sorts in the health care market.



After reading those articles, and then reading the graph above, do you still hold to your pre-existing belief about Obamacare? I'm sorry to say it, but if you maintain what you've been saying over the past few pages, you are no better than TalkingPoints or pf or nicky or any of the other mindless trolls for the Republican Party.

 

You ever think of doing a little cleaning every once in a while? Maybe use a little Clorox?

 

They got it at daycare. And you better believe I will be talking to them about it tomorrow.

 

Daycare? Seriously? You don't make your wife stay at home and take care of them? That's her job.

 

Private daycare?

 

Easter Seals.

 

S&H Green Stamps

 

What is it about this equivalence that seems false?

 

I foresee stanger going soon into a conservative bubble, where posters can feed off each others mental crap and corroborate their distorted views of the world..

 

Except that it is broke for millions of people. That's the point. I'd be very curious to see what happens if your wife's business ever starts struggling - I wonder how quickly you'll run to "government healthcare" then.

 

The vast majority of you post about how things should be. I usually post about actual experiences. That's usually the difference between the two sides of the aisle. One goes after the ideal, the other deals with how it really is.

 

Being uninsured or underinsured is real enough for millions of Americans. Thinking about those millions of fellow countrymen, women and children or thinking about my own convenience (or my big buck donors') is actually the difference between the two sides of the isle...

That, and the unwillingness of one of the sides to consider that they might be wrong once in a while.

 

I've repeatedly told you that how you see health care is not "how it actually is." I've shown you that changes to the law do not affect existing insurees. I asked you to read those articles and look at that graph. You have apparently done neither. You're just a troll at this point.