Official 2012 Nadeshiko Japan Thread [R] - part I

Discussion in 'Japan' started by Micol, Jan 3, 2012.

  1. unepomme

    unepomme Member+

    Jan 21, 2010
    Club:
    Sanfrecce Hiroshima FC
    I had predicted you must ask this question when I saw it.:cool: A great detective, aren't I?:p

    Everyone, especially Kiryu, looked a little bit nervous when they spoke because it was an official press conference. They all seriously answered.

    And the last one, Kiryu, sharply said "period!" at the last moment, meaning "that's all".
    It caused the laughter because of her tone of voice and the expression itself.
    It was indeed funny; I guess no one expected such an ending.

    Noda emphasized that they wanted to show such an attractive football as everyone in the stadium would think of coming again, let alone they win.
     
    blissett and Virany repped this.
  2. #5nadeshikofan

    #5nadeshikofan Member+

    May 26, 2012
    Plymouth, Michigan, USA
    Club:
    Vegalta Sendai
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    I think there is a misunderstanding...:cautious:

    I was trying to summarize my view on this in defense of Maruyama.... which was in the second part that you did not quote...which, reading it again, might have been unclear..

    The defense failed because it was outplayed by the nadeshiko (that's why I fell in love with the team, btw) giving Maruyama the chance to get in the position she was
    and
    Karina was patient and level-headed enough to make a precise shot.

    I would not call Angere's move a blunder because from that angle and at that speed, could she really have anticipated this - as you say - composed finish?

    But I get blissetts point that Ms Maruyama needs to be at her best to participate in the now....
     
  3. KAPIJXM

    KAPIJXM Member+

    Nov 18, 2011
    Illa de Arousa,Spain
    Club:
    Celta de Vigo
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    and at what time is that first game in Sweden and against who: USA or Sweden?
     
  4. mumf

    mumf Member+

    Nov 7, 2008
    According to this it is the USA first, probably in evening, and Sweden just 2 days later. That means everyone will play.

    Video of the controversial INAC 3rd goal - here - for those who didnt download. No word of the DF (what's her name?) on the Reds site, which is good.

    Another Video which solves (for me at least) a great mystery ? Whatever became of Reds FW Kitamoto (who led the league in goals 3-4 years ago, at least once - and was playing in NT until late 2010) ?
     
  5. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Is the weather good in Göteborg in June? I start being half-tempted to get there... :laugh:

    The DF is Shiho Kohata, 22, who was Ami Otaki's good friend and team-mate in Waseda University's squad.
    Crossing fingers for her.

    If I get it right they were still called "Saitama Reinas" at the time? Anyway there was Saki Kumagai on the pitch... :p

    I like the fact that a so good FW is forming Nadeshiko Japan players of tomorrow... Everyone of these little girls wants to be a "sokka-senshu". :D
     
  6. Saku²

    Saku² Member+

    Aug 22, 2009
    Club:
    FC Salzburg
    Me negative ? When I said it wasn't a blunder ? I was defending the goal in fact, if you don't work for it, bad gk never happens. Maruyama put the GK on pressure, the goal went in, congrats, there's a lot of goals cheaper than this one.
     
  7. KAPIJXM

    KAPIJXM Member+

    Nov 18, 2011
    Illa de Arousa,Spain
    Club:
    Celta de Vigo
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    maybe because she receives not many shots and great saves aren't the only ones that serve by the way :p
     
  8. #5nadeshikofan

    #5nadeshikofan Member+

    May 26, 2012
    Plymouth, Michigan, USA
    Club:
    Vegalta Sendai
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Thank you for that. I would agree with what was said before...no intentional foul but a nasty hit. From the distance it looked like Kohata She was down and slit into the oncoming Ohno, who couldn't stop in time because of her own momentum....and everything continued according to rule......ugly situation...
     
  9. Virany

    Virany Member

    Nov 6, 2011
    France
    Club:
    Olympique de Marseille
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Unlucky Ohno who unintentionally walks on Kohata foot :rolleyes:...
     
  10. mumf

    mumf Member+

    Nov 7, 2008
    Of course it was unintentional. But if she went into the challenge clearly with a last place chance to get ot even hit the ball she should have had an intention to avoid damage as the first player would be focussed on the ball. Sloppy and careless.

    I watched the 2nd half of Beleza v Urawa on Pink TV this evening, a and it wasnt bas as these players are all familiar by now. Very interesting to see Hara foul Shibata and even Arakawa - she will tackle if she has to. Also I do think Beleza is a better team than the Urawa kids, and can beat INAC.

    But UnePomme I remembered your words about understanding at last the role of Naomoto. She was only on for 2o-25 minutes in this game, and I believe her passing success rate in that time was exactly 100%. A lot of short ones, but a handful of long ones too. Now I can see why she was made Captain of the side that won the u-19 AFC. Wondering if she will captain in the WWC.
     
  11. TabascoT

    TabascoT Member

    Dec 1, 2011
    San Francisco, California
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  12. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    This is one of the most obvious positive differences with the women's game. If this incident happens in the men's game, everybody in the stadium would know about it, as the fouled player screamed their head off, falling to the grass as they pull out their best reenactment of Sgt Elias/Willem Dafoe's death scene from Platoon :rolleyes:.

    It's all about goals. Can Beleza out score INAC :unsure:.

    I personally believe a Belaza's midfield can compete with INAC, which means they should have periods of play that sees them dominate possession of the ball, but I don't see this being enough on it's own to hurt INAC. Iwabuchi and A. Nagasato are going to have to be ruthless :ninja:, or Beleza can forget about wining.

    She's so tiny though, she just looks like another upgrade version of never going to be Nadeshiko worthy Hara :(.

    All of Japanese football right now emphasises technique over size, but Naomoto doesn't even look robust enough to cope with the L-League girls, let alone the Amazons that will be consistently around her at the elite international level :unsure:.

    It often looked hilarious to see tiny Hara at U-20 level, facing up to the marauding style of a Kim Kulig level players, but she was still able to compete and excel versus her significantly larger peers, so I genuinely hope I'm wrong about Naomoto in the long run, as she develops into a real contributor towards future senior efforts :thumbsup: :cautious:.
     
  13. hirohiro

    hirohiro Member+

    Dec 29, 2011
    Brighton, UK
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    I share your concerns there. When I look at this so called "platinum generation", I have not yet seen players in central midfield that I could say she's a certain future Nadeshiko. Simply because of their sizes. As Batfink pointed out, we all know Nadeshiko does not rely on their physicality but technique, tactics, and organization. However you still need certain level of physical ability to compete in international level especially in that position. That's not when you have the ball but when you don't. More so for the tactics that Sasaki introduced to the current NT. Maybe if the future NT deploy different system, you may be able to accommodate likes of Yoko Tanaka and Naomoto - they wouldn't be a central partnership in 4-4-2 in senior level.

    I guess most of people on this thread watched the four-part L. League documentary. We talked about some defensive duties the forwards need to do. But I don't think we talked about the changes he made in defensive tactics from previous NTs. Apologies if it's been already discussed.

    Before Sasaki, when the opponents have the ball, the basic principle was to push opponents away from your own goal, meaning pushing them towards wide areas. Sasaki didn't think this suited Nadeshiko. Either they have to deal with the crosses which is their week point or at best it will be throw-ins and you continue to defend. So he made the decision to change that tactics to opposite. Invite the opponents to the central area where they have numbers, and ideally towards to central midfield players where the attacking players can also surround the opponents. Winning the ball in that area means instant attacking chance for Nadeshiko rather than winning the ball in your own deep wide area. To achieve that, they needed players who can win the ball in the central midfield positions. Saskaki says he rated Sawa's ability to win the ball more than her attacking ability. She had been always an attacking midfield player or second striker in previous NTs. Sakaki converted Sawa to more deeper role (you know we call volante in Japan by now - coming from Portuguese). It's a defensive midfield, but in reality she's more like a box-to-box player. Anyway my point is that you don't have to be a giant but you still need certain level of physicality to play in that role (although I admit it's not all about physicality to win the ball. You require technique, ability to read the game and body balance etc).

    If you look at the central midfield players current squad, it's quite evident. You got Sawa who is probably the best at battling for the ball one on one situation in Nadeshiko. When Sakaguchi came on the scene, she was a forward who was known for her physical ability as one of her main attributes (admittedly in domestic and probably in Asia level). Even the back up players like Utsugi and Tanaka are on the larger side for Japanese players. Obviously it doesn't mean size over technique or tactical awareness. They've all got great technique and nice touches. However you could say they are not the most creative ones or players who have trickery in their bags. That's including Sawa (some may argue but that's my opinion). We have those players on the wide in Miyama and Ohno who are the same size of Naomoto and Yoko Tanaka. Those players have more space and time to operate in the wide areas and also less demand for battling for the ball with giants when they play in the international level. They still have the duties to press and cut the angels to push the opponents towards where they want to/likely to win the ball.

    Even in 3, 4 years time, when Naomoto and Tanaka build up more muscles, I can't really see they could play the similar roles as Sawa and Sakaguchi defensively. But again, 4 years is a long time and the coach will be different and so as the system and tactics.
     
  14. #5nadeshikofan

    #5nadeshikofan Member+

    May 26, 2012
    Plymouth, Michigan, USA
    Club:
    Vegalta Sendai
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    There is silence on the Sameshima front....

    About the size of our players.... That was the big mistake of the western teams and the media during the World Cup: To underestimate the Nadeshiko and to be arrogant because of the height difference. And see what happened... Tactics, disciplin, and patience...
     
  15. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I guess hirohiro and Batfink are on to something... It's true that, as #5nadeshikofan said, Nadeshiko Japan style of play is not based on a physical approach, but it's also true that the team can't be all formed by 1 m 50 cm players. There must be some "pillars" to build the team around, that need some physical build, not only in particular to win fights (that's not the point), but to properly "run" the team and support a big amount of physical work and back-and-forth along the lines.

    It's not a secret that Sakaguchi is one of those players. Just after 2011 WWC I had said that she was one of the most important Nadeshiko players, although less spectacular and less lifted up by media and by so-called experts than most of her team-mates. Another such player (in the FW) is Nagasato (at least since she learnt the proper Sasaki's Nadeshiko Japan style of play). In the DF, the "pillar" is Kumagai. The NT, with Sasaki's style of play, somehow needs this "spine" of physical players along the field, and I agree that in the new generation of players, there doesn't seem to be many of them, at least at the moment. It's true that they're young and they can still grow (I don't actually mean in height, too late for that, but in overall physical build), especially if some of them manage to get signed by a club abroad (remember what's been said about the phenomenal change of many players, Ando for instance, after going to play in Europe or USA?)

    I am not sure about Sawa being just that kind of player, even in Sasaki's scheme of play. It's true that the duo Sawa-Sakaguchi is key, and they retrieve a huge quantity of balls at the MF, but Sawa is more than that, and I seem to remember from the above mentioned series of video-documentaries that she couldn't really adjust to her "new" role, until she found Sakaguchi at her side. That's a sign that Sawa, although decently build and not just an Iwabuchi's style trick-box, is anyway a different kind of player.
     
  16. TabascoT

    TabascoT Member

    Dec 1, 2011
    San Francisco, California
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I see that it is very common for sports commentators (I mean the talking heads you see on TV etc...) to equate height with physical play, especially when discussing Nadeshiko. Height does offer some obvious advantages but I do not agree that it is a prerequisite for physical play. If you look at the 2011 WWC match against Germany, that was a physical match. I beleive most of the yellow card bookings were agaisnt Japan.

    Now that they are World Champs the narative has shifted to despite their height disadvantage, Japan is a very technical team. I think this a mistake as the team, at least in my opinion, can play a physical game. So while there are advantages to having height, I do not think it always equates to physical play.
     
  17. TabascoT

    TabascoT Member

    Dec 1, 2011
    San Francisco, California
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  18. KAPIJXM

    KAPIJXM Member+

    Nov 18, 2011
    Illa de Arousa,Spain
    Club:
    Celta de Vigo
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    height is important but the most important is sacrifice, spirit and technique and Nadeshiko has all of that and in huge quantity BANZAI NADESHIKO!!!
     
  19. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I don't exactly get your point: Jessica Landström is quite tall even for "european" standards. o_O
    Saki is obviously shorter, but she's not totally overshadowed by her (she even look more robust and physically well-built in that picture), and anyway, with her 1 m 70 cm she can be considered a quite "tall" japanese girl and in fact she's rightly the "tower" of Nadeshiko Japan's defense-line.

    By the way: the Pitchside Report site strangely assigns this Frankfurt-Duisburg match to DFB-Pokal, while it was the last matchday of Frauen-Bundesliga instead :confused:.

    Edit: someone (don't remember who is, sorry) mentioned that Saki looks very good with slightly longer hair. I totally agree! :giggle: :thumbsup:
     
  20. Virany

    Virany Member

    Nov 6, 2011
    France
    Club:
    Olympique de Marseille
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Just a fact. Talking about amazons in Europe. The top scorer of the French Division 1 (also for UEFA Women's Champions League 2012 with Camille Abily (1,68 m) too), Eugénie Le Sommer (who could be a blonde japanese in a way :)) is 1,60 m.
    Well, the size isn't that important....
     
  21. TabascoT

    TabascoT Member

    Dec 1, 2011
    San Francisco, California
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't exactly get your point: Jessica Landström is quite tall even for "european" standards.

    Sorry, no real point. Just liked the picture as Saki is fun player to watch. Thought it was also an interesting contrast with someone who is known as a tall player even for Europen standards. Don't want to stray too far fom Nadeshiko items, but would you consider Landstrom to be a "physical player"?
     
  22. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    The superior athleticism of the Nadeshiko girls, over the rest of the domestic player pool is crazy. Right now Japan has a clear technical/tactical advantage over their international rivals, but like blissett mentions, it's also no coincidence that the spine of Japan's most successful team, is now made up of players with higher than normal levels of physical ability too.

    It's the one factor I'm adamant can be used to close the parity gap the quickest by up and coming nations, and without their improved physical ability, Japan's superior technical edge will only see them slowly return to the unwanted status of talented loser again :(.

    At senior level we see Japan increasingly immune to the oppositions efforts to bully them though physical play. This is obviously always best demonstrated in often ugly, but sometimes beautiful ways, when we watch them having to play USA. So seeing the progress of the next U-20 side becomes very interesting, when many of these next gen stars seem to be becoming increasingly light weight/petite.

    I mean this could all signify a new, even more techinal approach, for all those involved in the Nadeshiko program? Or these extra petite players could just be destined to peak at youth level, to progress no further :confused:.
     
  23. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Oh, well, then ok! :D when we talk about watching Saki I am all in: not only that picture was good, but also the other ones on that page featuring Saki (and, why not, also Kozukozu).

    I wouldn't properly call Landström a "physical player": she's tall, and that's one of her points of force (especially because of headers), but she's very slim and her fitness is usually below par. She often seems to run at slow-motion, and Frankfurt's coach, Sven Kahlert, once said during this season something along the lines that "there was no way that Landström could be useful to Frankfurt, given her current state of fitness" (he then played her later in the season, but I guess that sentence still sounds in Landis' ears... :rolleyes:).
     
  24. hirohiro

    hirohiro Member+

    Dec 29, 2011
    Brighton, UK
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Maradona being my childhood hero, I'm the first one to say the size isn't that important. ;) However that wasn't quite my point. We've got these tiny players in Ohno, Miyama, and Kawasumi. They are all similar size as Naomoto and Yoko Tanaka. I would never replace these three players with others because of their sizes. My point was certain positions/roles require certain abilities and attributes - you wouldn't play 11 clones of Miyama even if you had them (although I would definitely pay to watch that team :p ). And I have concerns that Naomoto and Yoko Tanaka, as technical as they are, may lack the attribute to do the required jobs in the positions they play in the international level. And I haven't yet really seen players in this new generation who could play in that role in the future. That's not to say Naomoto and Tanaka won't make it in the senior NT. As I said, with different system and tactics anything is possible - they could play 3 central mids or whatever with one who can compensate in that department.

    By the way, you mentioned Camilie Abily (1.68 m). Did you mention her name as an example of small player? She would be among the tallest in Nadeshiko.
     
  25. Virany

    Virany Member

    Nov 6, 2011
    France
    Club:
    Olympique de Marseille
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    I mentioned Abily (to be fair) because she's just a top scorer (with Le Sommer) of UEFA Women's CL 2012.
     

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