United States presidential election, 2008 [NSR]

Discussion in 'Colombia' started by minus, Sep 5, 2008.

  1. efernandez9

    efernandez9 Member

    Jun 6, 1999
    Joe Pool Lake
    Taxes 101

    para el amigo, que esta tratando de entender la situacion de los impuestos - TAXES Y MAS


    Una conversación de hace cuatro siglos, y así se rige todavía el mundo. Hagamos algo.


    Acerca del Estado y la gente, durante el reinado de Luís XIV de Francia, el 'Rey Sol':

    Colbert: Para conseguir dinero, hay un momento en que, engañar [al contribuyente] ya no es posible. Me gustaría, Señor Superintendente, que me explicara cómo es posible continuar gastando cuando ya se está endeudado hasta al cuello...

    > Mazarino: Si se es un simple mortal, claro está, cuando se está cubierto de deudas, se va a parar a la prisión. Pero el Estado...!! cuando se habla del Estado, eso ya es distinto!! No se puede mandar el Estado a prisión... Por tanto, el Estado puede continuar endeudándose. Todos los Estados lo hacen!

    > Colbert: Ah sí? Usted piensa eso? Con todo, precisamos de dinero. Y cómo hemos de obtenerlo si ya creamos todos los impuestos imaginables?

    > Mazarino: Se crean otros.

    > Colbert: Pero ya no podemos lanzar más impuestos sobre los pobres.

    > Mazarino: Es cierto, eso ya no es posible.

    > Colbert: Entonces, ¿sobre los ricos?

    > Mazarino: Sobre los ricos tampoco. Ellos no gastarían más y un rico que no gasta, no deja vivir a centenares de pobres. Un rico que gasta, SI.

    > Colbert: Entonces cómo hemos de hacer?

    > Mazarino: Colbert, tú piensas como un queso de Gruyere o como el orinal de un enfermo!!. Hay una cantidad enorme de gente entre los ricos y los pobres!! Son todos aquellos que trabajan soñando en llegar algún día a enriquecerse y temiendo llegar a pobres. Es a esos a los que debemos gravar con más impuestos..., cada vez más..., siempre más! A esos, cuanto más les quitemos, más trabajarán para compensar lo que les quitamos¡¡. Son una reserva inagotable!!.


    Y hoy, cuatro siglos después... ..........estamos igual.
     
  2. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia


    http://www.theworldeconomy.org/MaddisonTables/MaddisontableB-18.pdf

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_regions_by_past_GDP_(PPP)


    Yo!!! The reading comprehension sucks big time!!!! I said Germany and the UK, had bigger GDPs per capita in 1870, only in 1913 did US productivity become bigger than that of those countries…





    Duhhhh…. Per capita…. GDP/Population. More population, means smaller share of GDP per person. I’m starting to agree with you that the educational system in the US sucks..




    Bottom line, is still the biggest and is as big as the next two economies together, furthermore, in 1950 was as big as whole Western Europe or the next 4 economies together. We agree in the job exporting part which is partially causing the deficit (most of the deficit is caused by war spending and insufficient revenue).




    Sighs… Seriously….

    The point is, that inequality is the common factor between 1929 and 2008…



    Bingo!!!!!!!!




    Again, you live I lalaland if you think that people were better off in 1913 than lets say 1950 or 1960. 1913!!! What obsession with the year before WWI started.

    I will only say that you have to look at today’s standards and trends. The US is steadily declining and other countries are moving up. We need to find the reasons behind them




    Democracy means rule of the people. The two most common forms of democracy are direct democracy and representative democracy. In direct democracy everyone takes part in making a decision, as in a town meeting or a referendum. The specific rules may vary: perhaps everyone must agree, perhaps there must be consensus, perhaps a mere majority is required to make a decision. The other, better known form of democracy is a representative democracy. People elect representative to make decisions or laws. Again, specifics vary greatly.

    And, surprise, a representative democracy is a kind of republic. What distinguishes a republic is that it has an elected government. Representative democracies are, therefore, a kind of republic. Self-appointed governments such as monarchies, dictatorships, oligarchies, theocracies and juntas are not republics. However, this still allows for a wide spectrum. The classic is the Roman Republic, in which only a tiny percentage of citizens, members of the nobility, were allowed to vote for the Senators, who made the laws and also acted as Rome's supreme court. Most people would say that Rome was a Republic, but not a democracy, since it was very close to being an oligarchy, rule by the few. Although the Roman Republic was not a dictatorship (until Augustus Caesar grabbed power), it did not allow for rule of the people.



    Sooooo….. Where do you live? Just out of curiosity…



    And that would work perfectly because the contamination of air or the water stay within states' limits. And you pick your strawberrys from your backyard and eat meat from your farm.




    No thanks, everytime they have done that a crash has followed.

    http://www.truthout.org/there-no-such-thing-free-market/1307462405


    The free market doesn’t exist. Every market has some rules and boundaries that restrict freedom of choice. A market looks free only because we so unconditionally accept its underlying restrictions that we fail to see them. How ‘free’ a market is cannot be objectively defined. It is a political definition. The usual claim by free-market economists that they are trying to defend the market from politically motivated interference by the government is false. Government is always involved and those free-marketeers are as politically motivated as anyone. Overcoming the myth that there is such a thing as an objectively defined ‘free market’ is the first step towards understanding capitalism.




    http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/steckel.standard.living.us

    US Life Expectancy by decade:

    1910 53.1
    1920 54.1
    1930 59.7
    1940 62.9
    1950 68.2
    1960 69.7
    1970 70.8
    1980 73.7
    1990 75.4
    1998 76.7




    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/security/security.htm

    Historically, politicians have had a simple, consistent position on Social Security: Do nothing.

    Democrats steadfastly opposed tinkering, concerned that any changes would erode the safety net provided by a program they revere as the greatest and most inviolable legacy of the New Deal.

    And while many Republicans consider Social Security the ultimate Big Government program – with plenty of social engineering thrown in for good measure – they learned over time that its popularity with the voters made it untouchable.




    That’s a fat claim. How can you claim that if the following conditions existed:

    http://kclibrary.lonestar.edu/decade10.html

    Children working in Factories, Segregation, Union picketers attacked by police, women could not vote and life expectancy was around 50 years…




    So what about government subsidies that allow small agricultural states to thrive? Isn’t that a Ponzi scheme too?

    States Receiving Most in Federal Spending Per Dollar of Federal Taxes Paid:

    1. D.C. ($6.17)
    2. North Dakota ($2.03)
    3. New Mexico ($1.89)
    4. Mississippi ($1.84)
    5. Alaska ($1.82)
    6. West Virginia ($1.74)
    7. Montana ($1.64)
    8. Alabama ($1.61)
    9. South Dakota ($1.59)
    10. Arkansas ($1.53)





    Really? So we could have a king in South Dakota?

    La la land…

    http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1678.html

    Between the years of 1897 and 1903, approximately half of America's families did not own property. And by 1900, 18 million of the 29 million made an annual wage of around $500, which was below the cost of living for a industrialized family of four, while Andrew Carnegie earned $23 million himself.

    Life expectancy for whites was 48 years and non-whites was only 34. The work force included 1.75 million children under 15 and more than five million women, who sometimes worked for as low as 10 cents for a 10-hour day. Those conditions, the dehumanization of the American laborer in large and impersonal factories, led to numerous revolts and uprisings.

    That same year, at the Paint Creek-Cabin Creek strike in West Virginia during 1912-1913, workers violently struggled for improved working conditions. Jones organized a march with coal miners' children, which led to her arrest and later pardon. During the “Machine Gun Massacre” in a tent colony at Ludlow, Colorado (1914), strikers gained the attention of members of the House Mines and Mining Committee, as well as President Woodrow Wilson, who proposed that the union agree to a truce with the owners and to form a grievance committee at each mine.

    As laissez faire influence began to wane, legislation was put into effect to support the needs of American labor. Gompers noted that the Clayton Antitrust Act (1914) was “Labor's charter of freedom.” The act included a section declaring that unions could not be considered unlawful combinations per se and that strikes, boycotting, and picketing were not violations of federal law.





    Children were hired to work in factories, mills, and mines for long hours in unsafe and unhealthy conditions. Though efforts to pass a federal law proved unsuccessful, by the middle of this decade every state had passed a minimum age law. A commission found that up to 20% of the children living in cities were undernourished, education took second place to hunger and while children worked, only one-third enrolled in elementary school and less than 10% graduated from high school.


    I think I know of someone who’s been drinking too much of that water….
     
  3. TheAnswrto1984is1776

    Jan 21, 2012
    New York
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Re: Taxes 101

    Estamos igual porque destruimos la constitucion y pusimos un sistema socialista como el income tax en su lugar lo cual a llevado este pais a la quiebra. Estados Unidos era el unico pais diferente que los demas en su libertad y bajos impuestos y por eso logramos ser el pais mas rico en la historia del mundo antes de 1913.
     
  4. TheAnswrto1984is1776

    Jan 21, 2012
    New York
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    People living in cities will always lead to poverty and corruption, please tell me one city in the history of the world where poverty was not present. Your point is that since the federal government interfered in education all children now graduate high school and we have the most educated people in the world which is actually the opposite. If education was so bad back then why did America have the most educated, most intelligent, most brilliant inventors in the world? A high school diploma back then was like getting a college degree now. The federal government watered down education in order to dumb down the population. Try reading a newspaper article from 1800 and see if you can understand it. A high school kid from 1890 would mop the floor with you in a test. I know this because you drink unfiltered Flouridated florida tap water which is eating holes in your brain and that is why you support the same entity that is bankrupting this country.
     
  5. hanzellmo

    hanzellmo Member

    Feb 25, 2007
    Bogota
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    aww man it's in the water now? what can we do to stop this evil masterminds.
     
  6. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    I'm sure is the water now.
     
  7. TheAnswrto1984is1776

    Jan 21, 2012
    New York
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    your trolling is kind of amusing but I do not know why I waste my time responding to you when you do not even live in the USA. You have no clue about the real reasons why MY COUNTRY is bankrupt and runned by criminal bankers. I will however show you links and videos about EXPERTS, NOT MY OPINION about how the drinking water in the USA has 300 deadly chemicals in it with Flouride being one of the worst http://www.wnd.com/2008/05/63514/ and http://conspiracyrealitytv.com/water-fluoridation-poisoning-informative-presentation/ and http://www.nofluoride.com/ and [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRC57Rrongg"]Dr. Laura Pressley In-Studio Speaking on Fluoride Freedom - YouTube[/ame] and [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Xlq_jzTkLI"]Alex Jones: Bombshell How Fluoride Is Killing You and Your Children.flv - YouTube[/ame]

    Yes, these evil mastermind that admit they run the world are unstoppable, matter of fact they do not exist in Dapip's and Hanzellmo's magical lalaland. Matter of fact, there is no constitution, no bill of rights, lets just make Obama a dictator because he is the greatest president in the history of the USA. Long live Obama and demosocialists.
     
  8. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btKIxyrMp2M"]Conspiracy Nut - YouTube[/ame]

    LOL...
     
  9. TheAnswrto1984is1776

    Jan 21, 2012
    New York
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    If being right makes Alex Jones and myself conspiracy nuts so be it. If we are really going to discuss who are the conspiracy nuts is the Obama lovers like yourself who believe every lie that comes out of the white house. Our constitution and our rights are being taken away and because we patriots point it out that makes us crazy, how interesting :rolleyes:. Ill keep my money, Ill keep my property, Ill keep my guns and I will keep my freedom, you keep the change that Obama and the NEW WORLD ORDER will let you have which is nothing.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FK6vlsXVp7o&feature=related"]Alex Jones goes crazy at a Caller!!!! - YouTube[/ame] and [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3sOz57sHnE&feature=related"]Alex Jones talks to fluoridehead caller - YouTube[/ame] and
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qokvw2A0RIE"]Alex Jones smacks down dumb caller - YouTube[/ame]

    The last two videos might have shown Dapip calling Alex Jones because those callers had the same argumentative skills as him.
     
  10. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Fantastic argument... I'm right because another conspiracy nut thinks the same I do... :rolleyes:
     
  11. TheAnswrto1984is1776

    Jan 21, 2012
    New York
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    No, I am right because what I write about is the truth. The information I present does not come from Alex Jones, or myself, it comes from the mainstream whore media that has no choice but to report on the obvious. Like one of the videos says all you have is a label "conspiracy nut" the problem is that this is not 1996 and it does not work anymore. Proof of that is that gun sales are at record levels so I guess there are millions of conspiracy nuts like myself, oh my :D. Obama is a traitor, the water has poison, the NEW WORLD ORDER IS HERE and no matter what you call me I am going to keep preaching the truth because we have a first amendment in this country, I am sure you have heard of it :rolleyes:. I just love your argument "I have no way to defend my criminal, unconstitutional, treasonous leader so I will resort to name calling"
     
  12. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Let's see.... I'm going to take another look at your "arguments"..

    The USA was richer in 1913 because our economy was bigger than the next two economies together.. Which is still true today and furthermore in 1960s and 1970s it was as big as the next 4 economies together...

    People lived longer in 1913, only that more people died younger... :rolleyes:

    We had a better standard of life in 1913 because, there was segregation, the union guys were beat to the pulp by the police in widespread labor protests, women and children had to work in sweatshops for pennies an hour, there was no minimum wage, retirement, health or anything similar... Only 10% of the houses had electricity, life expentacy was like 50 years and the average salary adjusted by inflation was like 12k per year... Oh glorious 1913...

    Back in 1913 we had a fantastic school system where only like 20% of the people graduated from highschool and children were malnourished and had to work 10 hours so they couldn't attend school..

    People back then lived shorter because the water was not pure but today they live longer because the water is poisoned by the government..:rolleyes:

    The NWO is here to take away your freedoms but you will keep telling the truth because it is a right guaranteed in the constitution...

    The NWO wants to prevent a takeover and an awakening from the general population, yet millions of people know of the conspiracy thanks to patriots like Alex Jones and Yourself....

    The NWO wants to take away your freedoms yets guns are so widely available that a lunatic can go on a shooting spree every six months or so..




    Yep, I'm totally convinced now. :rolleyes:




    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hkFZVAe-7s"]You're A Conspiracy Nut. Admit It! - YouTube[/ame]





    That your nuts!!!!!!
     
  13. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Do you guys love Rand Paul?

    Latinos should love him as all the other repugs..

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...atino-voters/2012/02/14/gIQANyJUER_story.html

    Jordan is the very picture of the American dream: Born in Cuba, he fled with his parents to the United States at age six and went on to become a lawyer and clerk for Justice Sandra Day O’Connor. With the support of his home-state senator, Republican Marco Rubio (Fla.), a fellow Cuban American, Jordan was nominated to become the first Cuban-born judge to serve on the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals, which covers Alabama, Georgia and Florida.

    There is no serious objection to his confirmation — which makes the hazing he has experienced all the more inexplicable. Republicans slow-walked his nomination (he was approved unanimously by the Judiciary Committee in July), then filibustered his confirmation vote on the Senate floor. Even when the filibuster was broken Monday night (by a lopsided 89-5), a lone Republican, Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky, used a procedural hurdle to postpone the confirmation vote by two days, to Wednesday.

    Republicans should be sensitive to the tweak. The party’s presidential candidates have done long-term damage by vowing opposition to the DREAM Act (legalization for illegal immigrants who serve in the armed forces) and by trying to paint each other as too soft on immigration (highlighted by Herman Cain’s call for a lethal electric fence). Rubio and Jeb Bush have called for an end to what Rubio called “harsh and intolerable” rhetoric.

    The Hispanic population is expected to double — to 30 percent of the United States population — in the coming decades. So if Latinos continue to vote 2-to-1 for Democrats, the Republican Party will become irrelevant. Zoltan Hajnal of the University of California, San Diego, an authority on racial politics, sees a parallel with the Republicans’ alienation of African Americans in the 1960s. “The image of the party is pretty clear to most Latinos,” he said, “and once party images are built, they get passed on from parent to child in a process that’s very resistant to change.”
     
  14. TheAnswrto1984is1776

    Jan 21, 2012
    New York
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Yes I am totally convinced, you hate the United States Constitution and until we are runned by the United Nations you will not be happy. I got a newsflash for you the minute UN blue helmets walk down American streets that will be the day UN blue helmets get slaughtered. After the constitution gets restored you, Obama and the rest of the constitution hating, unamerican demosocialists can move to China, North Korea, Cuba or any other totalitarian nation where the government can control your life. I do not understand how you swore loyalty to the United States constitution and you have so much hate for it.
     
  15. TheAnswrto1984is1776

    Jan 21, 2012
    New York
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Yes, establishing our sovereignty is wrong and evil and yet Mexico incarcerates and murders their illegal aliens and that is good. The dream act wants to have tax payers foot the bill of the education for 30 million foreigners who broke the law by entering the country ILLEGALLY. Not to mention they come here to lower our wages and bankrupt the states because they get handouts and pay no taxes in order to fund those programs. They need to go back to their country, we can not afford to have them here.
    [/QUOTE] Oh, so now all latinos are illegal aliens and we all support criminals who broke the law coming in my country. Nevermind the fact that more than 80% of the people that cross the border are criminals or the fact that they want handouts and their wages are sent back home to support their criminal government in Mexico. Most latinos including myself do not like illegals and want them deported and employers who use their labors incarcerated for violating the law.
     
  16. hanzellmo

    hanzellmo Member

    Feb 25, 2007
    Bogota
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    This thread is a real eye opener, here i tought gringos were guilty of their own mess but now i see its all the fault of the illegal aliens, boy do i feel stupid for laughing at that south park chapter now.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=768h3Tz4Qik&feature=related"]Southpark - They Took Our Job! - YouTube[/ame]
     
  17. TheAnswrto1984is1776

    Jan 21, 2012
    New York
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    I would respond with a detailed and FACT based argument but that would be feeding the troll. YOU DO NOT LIVE IN THE USA, worry about your narcogovernment that murders its own people daily and I will worry about my corrupt government. Dapip lives here so he has the right to have an opinion about our political system but you do not. The banks are responsible for the mess we are in, not gringos, the same banks that run your government and launder the drug money.
     
  18. ryu79

    ryu79 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 17, 2005
    NYC
    Club:
    America de Cali
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Hanzellmo has every right to post his opinion.

    Drop the troll bit. Your past incarnations have earned you a permaban here and weve been very patient to give you an opp back on the forum but you need to respect others.
     
  19. TheAnswrto1984is1776

    Jan 21, 2012
    New York
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    What other incarnations are those? I guess you are looking for a way to ban me because you do not like what I say about your hero Obama. Hanzellmo called me an idiot and I guess that is good, I love double standards :rolleyes:. Of course he has every right to post his opinion but he doesnt post opinions, he posts material that falls under the category of trolling, do I have to tell you how to do your job??? I am not going to drop the troll bit because that is what he is doing and until you do your job then I do not see a reason to stop pointing the obvious.
     
  20. ryu79

    ryu79 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 17, 2005
    NYC
    Club:
    America de Cali
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Everyone here knows who you are. I could care less what your views are on our president but you need to respect others if you are to post here. If your views were an issue, i wouldnt be bringing this up now. Weve let you stay on this time because you ve shown more restraint and avoided flaming (or atleast made an effort) till now.

    If anyone is trolling here, it is by definition, you who continue to post conspiracy theory on a thread about the election. Dont be surprised that others make fun of your views when youve called everyone who disagrees with you a commie, socialist, brainwashed and claimed we all will soon be in fema camps. But no one has tried to deny your right to post your opinion, even those that disagree with you, as you did to Hanzellmo earlier today.

    To this point, Super Tuesday is coming quick with both Mitt and Paul withdrawing from the last debate will be very interesting. Given your support for Paul I'm surprised you havent brought up the Maine results (where he did his best showing ever) recently.
     
  21. TheAnswrto1984is1776

    Jan 21, 2012
    New York
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    What do you mean Paul and Mitt are withdrawing from the last debate? As far as Maine, Ron Paul won maine, he was robbed just like he was robbed in Iowa and South Carolina, fraud is the only way they can stop Ron Paul. You can stop the man, but you can not stop the movement.
     
  22. ryu79

    ryu79 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 17, 2005
    NYC
    Club:
    America de Cali
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    A troll derails threads exactly as you have done here - this is a thread about a political election which you have made every effort to make into a discussion of your conspiracy theories (which despite your repetition of the words fact and truth are far from them).

    You don't seem to appreciate that when you accuse someone of being a commie or a socialist or brainwashed thats a flame - you naturally have freedom of speech on the topics of discussion in these threads, but personal attacks are out of bounds and stated by the forum norms. I'd let these go and also the (natural) responses you've been getting from folks (again, until now, I hadnt issued a single infraction in this thread) - but for you to start accusing others of trolling you is the pot calling the kettle black.

    In a rather poetic twist, you seem to think Ive been waiting for just the right moment to ban you - a conspiracy theory. The truth is the opposite, we recignized you a couple weeks back (admittedly, your first post was so outlandish i mistook it as satire) and Ive tried to give you another chance to post on the board. The first time you were warned to behave after an infractable post you start whining that a mod is after you - i hadnt even given you an infraction, precisely because i was hoping youd matured. and instead you post this nonsense about favoritism.

    So I'll give you what you want: This is an infraction and warning. Next post that flames or trolls this thread and youre out for the countless-th time.
     
  23. ryu79

    ryu79 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 17, 2005
    NYC
    Club:
    America de Cali
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
  24. TheAnswrto1984is1776

    Jan 21, 2012
    New York
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Really, well I never posted anything that falls under that category so I am sure you will make up some bogus reason to kick me out, I dont care.
     

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