PBP: USWNT WWC '11 Final Roster

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by kool-aide, May 9, 2011.

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  1. Crazy Old Lady

    Crazy Old Lady New Member

    May 22, 2003
    just outside Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta Beat
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Wish everyone could have seen an interview Channel Fox5 in Atlanta had with Mitts and LLoyd. Lloyd is sick of hearing about the 99ers and Mitts feels that there were only 2-3 good Teams in the World during the Glory Years and us winning the Cup was not as big a deal as people think.How old were they when we won the World Cup in one of the most exciting World Cup Finals ever? They can have bragging rights when they achieve even half of what the 99ers achieved.Such arrogance.
     
  2. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think these both are legitimate statements by current players. The comparisons of today's players to players 10 or more years ago have only limited meaning given the progress in the women's game in the US and, particularly, elsewhere in the world. In addition, there were very few good teams in the world and they were not at the level of the better teams in the world today. Winning the World Cup today is much more difficult than it was back then.

    That's not to say the '99ers weren't great for their time.
     
  3. philafan

    philafan Member

    Mar 20, 2010
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed with this sentiment 100 percent but in no way to I believe either of those women would have ever said anything to publicly disparage the 1999 players, who were their idols and in Mitts' case, her teammates and friends.
     
  4. luvdagame

    luvdagame Member+

    Jul 6, 2000
    note my reply.

    i certainly give germany credit for winning the last two world cups. that's why my reply didn't deal with that and only tangentially could be connected to that matter and that time period. i was talking about producing female talent. the u.s. may have picked the wrong coaches for their teams recently, but i don't think the germans have any great superiority in producing female talent, when comparing the teams, players and games in recent years.

    altho, like i said, i can be persuaded.

    huh??

    name them.
     
  5. UNC4EVER

    UNC4EVER Member

    Sep 27, 2007
    It was a very different (and kinder and gentler) soccer world back in the day. Today, Scurry's game winning save (in which she was 2+m off the line) would be called back by any self-respecting ref., the kick retaken, and Scurry certainly cautioned and possibly carded. Wonder how that would have gone over with US fans? (Understand I'm not saying Scurry shouldn't have cheated the kick-- in those days it was just smart keeping as it was never called.) I agree with Lloyd and Mitts that it is a tougher, more sophisticated game these days. I can also understand why these players are sick of hearing about the '99ers. For one thing, it is so last century... For another, most people are pretty indescriminate in their nostalgia. Hamm is the face of that era, and while she was great, that emphasis is misplaced as she would be the first to assert. Also, players like Chastain who were probably not even cappable in today's world and certainly mediocre at best are confabulated with players like Akers and Milbrett who kept their shirts on and contributed infinitely more to the women's game. It is enough to make one weary. I'm sure the Atlanta ladies meant no disrespect.
     
  6. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    Haha

    Shirt flashing not withstanding, the shootout would never have happened had Chastain not headed the ball into her own net.
     
  7. Focker

    Focker Member

    Oct 29, 2010
    Mitts was not fit at all. She got burnt badly on the one challenge she had. She made the team on being a veteran. Why do people keep bringing up April? Her era of coaching is long over. Despite her coaching, she was a hella player for the WNT. 38 goals in 47 caps.
     
  8. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    This is what is wrong with BS analysis.

    Statistics say every player looses half the challenges. You miss one, I say " so what?"
    More important is how the back line works covering each other so Marta has to win five challenges in a row.
    That is how she got negated in the Olympics.

    As to April, it's hard to get past epic failure, she benched the USA's most creative player in her prime for that game ( Milbrett- 99 goals at that point) because she wouldn't play cookie cutter ball and dump to the corners. Then she panicked in the 10 last minutes and told Milbrett to save her toosh and go create. She almost did, but time ran out.

    And she pulled two defenders which sealed the USA's fate.

    Milbrett retired after that tournament- said she couldn't play for April, and that was probably the biggest setback of all for the USA

    It was probably worse decisions than sitting a keeper who had three shutouts going into the semis in the last tournament.

    and that she is now in charge of player development with Jill is too scary to ignore.


    It would be really nice if this time the coach didn't sabotage the team.
     
  9. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    :confused:
     
  10. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
  11. Cville K C

    Cville K C Member

    Nov 3, 2008
    Collinsville, IL
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Mitts didn't just lose the challenge, she was totally beaten on the play. And scarier yet, she tried to grab the players arm after she was beaten and it was just outside the box. It wasn't a Marta or Prinz that beat her. It was Monica Ocampo, who's only played 13 minutes for Mexico in the last year. Ocampo has been injured a lot over the past couple of years as well. Yet she beat Mitts easily.

    And what started the play...Mitts was dispossessed in the offensive end. Having all kinds of room, she dribbled straight into Ocampo and lost the ball starting a counterattack. She made really bad plays at both ends of the field within seconds of each other.

    Every team we face in the WC is going to see this film and attack accordingly. Sweden and North Korea will use this.

    I have defended Mitts a lot since the WPS started. I think she takes way too much abuse on the WPS forums. I truly believe she is still a pretty good defender. I think the world of her as a person. She stood out in freezing cold weather and signed autographs when most of the team hit the locker room after the US beat Italy in Chicago last fall.

    But this is about what's best for the team. With what I saw Friday, she isn't ready to face top competition, and she had better get a lot better in the next three weeks or its going to cost us, unless of course, she rides the bench for the whole time in Germany.
     
  12. UNC4EVER

    UNC4EVER Member

    Sep 27, 2007
    As I recall she kicked it back, really just a half-assed roller, but directly on frame. No doubt she was counting on Scurry's fabled cat-like reflexes to save her bacon on such a sophmoric error. Cat-like Scurry was totally wrong footed and looked like a deer in the headlights-- they both looked like a couple idiots.

    Here are the positive lessons for this year's team: (1) You've come a long way baby!; and (2) It doesn't matter whose goal you are shooting at, or how hard you hit it-- if you put it on frame it may go in (...AROD) ;)...
     
  13. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Personally I think this is the first time Mitts is not the best option for her position. I used to think Mitts was a tough as nails defender too, that never got the respect her defending deserved.

    Right now though there's a new breed of U.S. player, that looks to be potentially better in the two way football she can't produce. What she used to offer was absolutely worthy of a WNT starters role. Now though she's reminding me of Gary Neville, who unlike Mitts realised he could no longer help his Man Utd team in the way he used to.

    Neville, a respected always dependable veteran right back, that got bogged down with relentless injury. Playing for a team where young talent coming through is not an issue, he knows being replaced at any moment is always an option. Rightly knew when to call it quits on ambitions of playing for a team at the elite level of football.

    On everything other than young talent coming through, doesn't that Sound familiar?

    LOL, you do get the feeling quite a few U.S. girls are sick of the endless 99ers legacy talk. It's beginning to turn into the English syndrome with their one and only 1966 home triumph.

    Like others have suggested, the modern era is a far tougher landscape to navigate. Many of this current WNT would look like beasts if they could hop in a DeLorean and Marty Mcfly it through the 99' WWC again.

    The WNT team are full of ridiculously athletic girls. The training drills and muscle mass these girls have to put on now just to compete, should explain exactly why they get pissed at hearing about 99 so often.
     
  14. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    Kinda shoots your "too slow" argument in the foot, doesnt it?


    I want a defender who can go end to end in seconds on my team.
     
  15. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    Since I had to check it--


    Fun fact.


    Those two own goals, (both against Scurry) are the only two own goals given in Women's World Cup History.
     
  16. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Germany won in '03 USA off the back of a team that they had been building for some time. They then replace some of the best talent they and the game have ever produced, with kids from their '04 U-20 wining side. Germany win '07 China with a new core of talent, and a different style of play to obtain success.

    Germany need to tweak and upgrade there senior squad post '07, and introduce new players for the EURO championships that they go on to win. Then they win the last U-20 WWC with girls that have senior level experience, and now look full of options for 2011 WWC.

    When doing all this, Germany regularly still manage to have a player in the horribly distorted FIFA female player of the year top 3 every season too.

    The coverage of the women's game makes it difficult where we can all agree on who deserves what, in regards to the best player in the World. I can say though quite a few females at various points have out performed Marta over the course of a international calendar season. Marta could have and should have lost out to Inka Grings just two years ago.

    Marta has the best all round game, but also happens to be one of the best pro athletes the women's game's had too. She's the perfect balance between technique and pure athlete we have seen so far. Each long term winner of the female Ballon d'Or has represented the next leap forward in the women's game.

    Hamm was the athlete with guile. Prinz was the pace and precise power. Marta is the combo of those two players attributes, with the fortune of being able to play as a long term pro. Another girl will come through, benefiting from things those three players all helped define as integral parts of the elite players game. Not way off in distant future either.
     
  17. UNC4EVER

    UNC4EVER Member

    Sep 27, 2007
    As I've said above, in my perfect world both Mitts and Engen get to go to Germany. Its a complicated, tough call and one could argue either side.

    In defense of Mitts, she has had some tough (injury) luck in the past (and present), and has risen to the challenge. She has always been tough (and I was offended on her behalf when she did commentary and people accused her of just being a pretty face). I'm not saying she should go out of sentiment or loyalty--now she is even more motivated-- this is her last shot at a WC. Its not like she has put herself through all this rehab to sit on the bench and wear the t-shirt. That gal is a warrior and she will kill herself to make an impact if she is given the chance. Whether she gets minutes or not is Pia's decision, but her presence on the squad raises the bar for every other player. That level of desire is what we will need against Germany-- Mitts has it.

    I have concerns about her fitness, her technical chops, and her integration with the back line. She has never been the most proactive defender, rather, she takes her licks, reacts, and compensates with speed. I hope she still has that. It should come as no surprise that someone is able to turn a corner on Heather, the question is how well she will mesh with the other defenders and how her speed will match come the end of June. I wish her the very best. I think she is a very solid international defender who has been under-appreciated. I very much hope her health stays good; she gets some minutes; and blows everybody away with the passion and skill of her on-field performance.
     
  18. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    All world cup have their moments that could make the outcome swing either way. We have this vision of the German Juggernaught in 2003, but if you look at it, that wasn't the case by a long shot.

    We were so absorbed by our loss we didn't pay attention that Germany had to go to golden goal overtime against Sweden to win that one. There was also a pretty questionable hand ball that went against The Swedes.


    And don't forget that a big part of the USA incentive in 1999 was to get back at the Norwegians for their 'choo choo ' display when they won the 1995 game with us and went on to their cup defeating Germany.


    We could easily be talking about the Viking Juggernaught now.
     
  19. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    That Sweden side was a quality outfit though. You forget that German rise to prominence coincided with Sweden's greatest generation of talent too. Sweden took Germany in Germany to ET in the Euro championships following the WWC defeat. Only to eventually lose in similar fashion, to the same WC golden goal scenario.

    Those two teams had the juggernaut tussles versus each other, nobody else pushed them in the same way in that period of time.
     
  20. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    Exactly. The scene was a lot more complex than "the 91ers were the best and then the Germans took over". Every final has been a one or two goal affair. Several could have gone either way. Two of the five cups weren't determined in regulation time.
     
  21. luvdagame

    luvdagame Member+

    Jul 6, 2000
    grings is not close to the football player marta is, no matter how well she played 2 years ago. and i don't think you can name a female soccer player who is threatening to unseat marta as the acknowledged best player in the world, no matter how they play better than her in one season.

    it will be another generation before we see a player who takes it to the next level in combining skill, athleticism, and soccer brains.
     
  22. gogogo

    gogogo Member

    Apr 18, 2002
    Alas! Chalupa comes to mind. She's had some great battles with Marta over the years and should have had more at the international level.
     
  23. pattrickwolf

    pattrickwolf New Member

    Nov 7, 2010
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Kelly Smith, Sinclair, Hope Solo
     
  24. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    :confused:


    You're mixing up two different games-- the shootout was a scoreless draw with China. The own goal was in an outright win against Germany. I can't see how the own goal helped to bring the shootout about...
     
  25. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm with Luvdagame on this and the arguments I've heard have done nothing to convince me otherwise. I suspect that Germany is gaining the edge in depth of talent based on the consistency of their play against other countries (Euros, qualifying, recent friendlies) but based on head-to-head games against the US, there's no great gap in talent.

    The coaching may have stunk for example in 2003. The tactics may have stunk. April Heinrichs may have been a nincompoop. People may well be right about that - that's not the point that was under discussion. But talent-wise, the US was not inferior to Germany in 2003 and all of the comments made so far (besides Luvdagame's) have been irrelevant to that point, serving merely to allow people to vent their bitterness over the loss (as understandable as that might be).
     

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