The 2010 Table - Magic Numbers, Tragic Numbers & Other Numerical Arcana of Dubious Value [R]

We should specify that the goal difference is for accross the league (same with GF)

 

You need the Mutiny to have the best GD for it to be a useful question.

 

are you listing the results as W-D-L in the upper table too? just a suggestion that you note that because MLS types might be used to their unique W-L-T way of listing things. it should be obvious from how you list the results in the lower table but you never know. better safe than sorry.

 

don't most other competitions use GD as the first tie breaker past points for this very sort of reason. that using Head to Head can get pretty convoluted? i have never really thought about it much but it just seems easier to go with the team tied on the most points that has the best overall GD. at least to my mind.

 

GD is not definitively better. A lot of people prefer h2h, as it is more intuitive (if you beat a team during the season, and you're tied on points, then you should get the tiebreaker). This is a philosophical question.

The issue with MLS's system is that if three teams are ranked head to head, the head to head resets after a singular winner is advanced. That's what makes it more confusing.

But i worry about this thread getting off course (as I beleive this topic warrants its own thread)

 

1. Fusion
2. Mutiny
3. Metro
4. Clash

EDIT:

Fusion are first on second tiebreaker, GD.

Mutiny win 3 way by better record vs Clash/Metro.

Metro ahead of Clash by GD.

 

I'm assuming that when you determine the top team, you go back to the first tiebreaker among all remaining tied teams.

If you don't do that, then after you determine the top team, you're still continuing to count results against that team among the 3 remaining tied teams to separate them which doesn't make much sense.

 

Of course you eliminate the Mutiny. Only teams that are tied on the first tiebreaker can advance to the second. But they're only eliminated for the purposes of determining the top team among those four.

 

Good luck, this is now the 3rd year in a row we've ended up in this situation and MLS has yet to clarify it. Last year I tried emailing a couple of MLS reporters but never got a verified answer. MLS unfairly gets called "bush league" for a lot of things, but this is one case where I think it applies. To have unclear playoff tiebreakers 3 years running is a joke that's rectified by a phone call and 15 minutes of HTML editing on the website.

 

Not to disparage your larger point, but you are way off base here:

They've had many thousands of minutes to rectify the most basic of issues with their website and you expect them to solve this one in 15 minutes!?!!?

Are you insane?

 

Again, I'm going off of this, from the link that Knave posted:

I read that second sentence as GD being the next tie breaker for those two teams, but not including the third team. Because to be honest, it really doesn't make sense that the third team should be able to "advance" to the next tie-breaker when they're behind in the first tie-breaker.

Edit: In fact, that's what Sirk's post says.

 

Knave,

Thanks for the heads up via PM.

To answer your question, based on my exchange with Will Kuhns last fall, the 4-way tiebreak remains in effect until ONE team ADVANCES. The fact that the 4-way tiebreak eliminates the Mutiny on the first go means nothing, other than eliminating the Mutiny from winning the tiebreak. The 4-way tiebreak is still applied to the 3 remaining teams since no team advanced from the first tiebreaker.

Next up is goal differential, which means the Fusion advance from this tiebreaker.

If another spot was at stake, the three remaining teams would then be subject to a new tiebreaker amongst themselves.

Sirk

 

Thanks Sirk.

Let's say that, in this example, the battle is for 6th, 7th, and 8th place.

On the first tie-breaker for 6th place, the Mutiny would be eliminated from consideration. But since the other three teams are tied on points, 6th place still hasn't been decided. So they move to the next tie-breaker for 6th place, which would be GD. At that point, the Fusion win the tie-breaker and take 6th place.

Then you have to determine 7th place, and you start over for the first tie-breaker for 7th place taking into consideration the three teams that are tied. At that point, the Fusion advance on having the best record against the other two teams.

Edit: Proof of that is from the MLS link, here:

Then you have to determine 8th place, between the Clash and the Metros. They are tied on points, and go to the next tie-breaker, which goes to the Metros (booo!).

Poor Clash.

 

looks like the Clash should have had a better defense (in this example). 35 goals scored but only a +1 GD? probably wouldn't have done much in these imaginary playoffs anyway with such a sieve at the back anyway.

 

I think you meant the Mutiny. But other than that, yeah, that is exactly how it would unfold as explained to me by Will last fall.

4-way tiebreak: MIA wins 6th on GD tiebreaker.

TB/MET/SJ 3-way: TB wins 7th on PPG.

MET/SJ 2-way: MET win 8th on GD.

The Clash are on the outs.