well i liked him years ago when he was playing for america but that was a long time ago, the years has taken its toll. I really can't get why they bought a player over 30 when we have better players here that need to go abroad. Also he was doing good at boca....liked by the fans...would've been wiser to stay perhaps.
Vargas was doing well in the yellow shirt in 2009 until the Ecuador player almost killed him. I do not find it a coincidence that Colombia's midfield play suffered after he went down. Frankly I would not mind seeing him play in Copa America. After that he may be a little to old for WCQ's but at least give the guy one last chance.
yea we were doing amazing...... losing 1-0 is alot better than losing 3-0 or 3-2 We started scoring at least when we were vargasless our midfield was still being scored on, people act like with Vargas we were winning.... WE WERE STILL Tying !!! Which is why we don't qualify we tie way way way too much
You are mixing up the issues now crzy (as always). The reasons why we were not scoring had nothing to do with Vargas. It had to do with coaching, the system and the Strikers we were putting out there. Vargas is a Defensive Midfielder and did his job well.
exactly. against chile the 4 in the back and the 2 up front were the same I would choose today. zuniga, zapta, yepes, armero (no complaints) falcao, jackson (2 best we have) but the midfield+ tactics/trainer was garbage.
He is just as much responsible for the lack of any cohesive midfeild attack as any of the other midfielders. We scored a total of 4 goals with Vargas on the field last qualifiers against Bolivia and Peru, the two worst teams. We scored 10 goals without him against Venezuela, Argentina, Ecuador, Chile, Paraguay, and Uruguay. Do you see a trend?
Maybe if he were in Boca's system that would be the case. His job on Colombia was not to create chances or join the attack. His job was to be a good defensive midfielder and help control the possession. He did that to the best of his abilities. To blame him for not scoring goals is kind of stupid if you ask me. There are many other factors and players to blame before him. With the right coach and the right system Vargas can be a star.
Vargas is like Sergio Busquets, Slow an witty. but he can do his job correctly if everyone else on the midfield is working together. Aguilar didn't play to his full potential and neither did Guarin. What happened was we used 3 DM's and 1 CAM most of the games. Guarin is decent at DM but better at CM, and Vargas is the same better at CM than DM. Dirty Sanchez is the real DM along with Aguilar when Sanchez is hurt or not called. I would much rather play with one DM and two CM's than with 3 DM's. That's what happened to Lara's Midfield. Thing is we have fast wingers and fowards, the slow midfielders that we have need to learn to pass quicker and the coach needs to put the right player at the right position at the right time. Otherwise we'll have a disastrous midfield like most of the time.
I think we should drop aguilar, vargas and guarin in the sele. If they aren't good enough to be starters in their teams than neither are they good enough to deserve a spot in the sele. We should stop to inisist certain players or coaches are great that can't do well abroad. But of course if the coach doesn't get HIS job because of current form, than neither will the players...
Some of the comments here are hilarious and show how little people know about soccer. Vargas is mostly a *defensive* midfielder, his job is not to score goals or to supply balls to the strikers, but he did play as a defensive / offensive mid when he was playing in Boca and teamed with Riquelme a lot. Right after Vargas was sold to Europe (and a lot of other players left), Boca was never the same, and have been at the bottom ever since. Our team went downhill defensively as soon as Vargas was injured and out of the qualifiers. Just look at the amount of goals scored against us before and after he left. Vargas is the Colombian player with the most international titles ever and he was easily the most consistent defensive mid in the qualifiers. He is one of the best midfielders Colombia ever had, along Chicho Serna, Leonel Alvarez, etc I will never forget Vargas arguing face to face against Messi in the Argentina qualifier game we lost 0-1 After Vargas was injured, the replacements that Lara played; Guarin and specially Aguilar did a horrendous job.. nobody was able to replace Vargas.. Anyway, Vargas will probably be too old to play the next qualifiers.. i just hope Aguilar never plays in la seleccion ever again, because he SUCKS
te conociamos en el foro antes? como nos encontraste? Bienvenido de todas formas.... un nombre interesante, AntiBolillo. Vas a tener mucho amigos en el presnte de la seleccion.
Ok, every game Vargas played he was on the right side of a 4-3-1-2 midfield with the exception of the game against brazil where he was on the right of a 4-4-1-1. Given Lara and Pinto's idiotic tactics you can say that Vargas' role was that of a defensive midfielder. From the logic of what you are saying all goals are supposed to be created and scored by 3 guys??!! Certainly in that lineup and with the mentality of our coaches Vargas is not a creator or scorer but he is just as much a part of the attack as anyone else. To say our defense went downhill without Vargas is very subjective. Before Vargas played we had been scored 1 time in 4 games and it was only because it was Messi. So than i can tell you that once Vargas started playing we started losing... Colombia held opponents scoreless 9 times last qualifiers. Vargas only played in 3 of those games: Bolivia at home and Peru at home were two of them. You give the guy WAY too much credit.
Yep. Why do you think we had the second worse offense after Peru? Everyone knows Pinto is a tactical coward and Lara was not much better tactically, except he let the players do a little more on their own, unlike that screaming lunatic loser Pinto. You have to separate the team's history in two: Pinto and Lara. Two totally different teams with mostly different players. Check the press ratings for Vargas in all the games he played. Check the goals we were scored against in the Lara era when he played and after Vargas was injured. The numbers don't lie.
This has been discussed over and over again..... Vargas is a great club player and we cannot deny his 18+ titles with a Boca that got tired of winning everything. The horrible numbers that Boca is posting right now have deeper causes than transferring one player... But I kind of agree with you that he was a leader in their locker room. Here you have an analysis I posted just after the end of the qualys...
That's one way to look at it. Alternatively, one could say that under Pinto we were doing great in the table and playing amongst the qualifiers until... Fabian Vargas rejoined the team. Pinto then completely imploded and Lara was never able to truly right the ship. IMHO, Carlitos Sanchez and Jose Amaya, did better at the double 5, than any combination of Fabian Vargas, Gerardo Bedoya, Freddy Guarin or Abel Aguilar did. But we never saw them down the stretch either... I'm not saying anything negative about Vargas here (though its well documented that I am no fan) - just that this isn't black and white and we can all interpret what we will from what happened.
Tremendous analysis. The most impressive of which is the Hernandez calculation. If we consider where we were in qualifying with Maturana before Rueda took over in the previous qualifiers - and how efficient Rueda was - I have a feeling that over a longer term view the evidence is even more damning against Hernandez.
We gotta stay with the facts. We just need to score. No conspiracies, no assumption on the D. Fact is our D was solid most of the time and our attack was shit. If we can't score of course we are not able to win every game. Plus with no attack the D is pressured twice as fast. That's not E=MC^2 its more of a 1+1=2 ordeal.
although I am not suppossed to defend myself, I would say that my analysis focused in 3 of the most controversial guys from the last cycle. Vargas came as a neutral element, not being clear if he was really that instrumental for the NT as toconbolillo says. The other two were public enemies one and two. Regarding our defense, I would say that it was the most consistent of our lines: It was sure to concede goals in the most critical games and underperformed when needed the most. Other than that it was great. In behalf of our attack I would say that it was a little too late when we finally discovered that we could use more than one striker and send some midfielders other than GioH to create options. And looking at these two statements, I would say that Perea and GioH embody the past 8 years of our NT better than any other player. Altough Vargas is quite a metaphore too: Big heart and hustle, talented but with plenty of shortcommings to overcome, sometimes looking like the real deal... At the end, not enough...
But those aren't facts. Those are assessments you are making. DaPip is actually analyzing the facts (outcomes) and trying to understand WHY we couldn't score (or atleast who's presence aided in our scoring more than the opposition when they were on the pitch). At the end of the day, the fact that we had a low goals scored against figure on average is clearly a misleading indicator to our success when we know our defense was paper thin when you needed it the most. It begs the more interesting question of WHY we haven't performed in pressure games. What does it say about our team that we've performed our best when playing in front of an empty stadium in Barranquilla and underperformed for most of our sell out matches? It's also helpful to say we 'just couldn't score' without looking at why and what formations/players led to better outcomes. I hadn't seen the data (you'd say facts) actually broken down like this before, and think the output is actually pretty insightful.
para los detractortes de los 3 resistidos: Perea - Gio Hdz y Fabian segun la otra teoria de dapipp...(see thread in colombian new coach?) los que no son paisas no regresan a la seleccion, del posible opcionado de Maturana!