Paolo Maldini - Il Capitano - The King of Kings.

Discussion in 'AC Milan' started by kckal, Feb 14, 2008.

  1. jpick

    jpick Member

    Jul 5, 2006
    jacksonville, FL
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I disagree is all i can say. the team could focus solely on a weak serie a last season and had to go to the wire to maintain third place and THEN on top of that lost kaka and an already old team aged another season. with maldini we would still be sucking given that he wouldn't even be starting especially.
     
  2. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Of course you need players to win but he still could have contributed in some capacity. Its not like the defense is shininig....I mean no one is really standing out that I can see.
     
  3. jpick

    jpick Member

    Jul 5, 2006
    jacksonville, FL
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    well yeah, he could have contributed in some capacity, sure i just don't think he would have made much difference. for instance, tonight the defense kept a clean sheet, so unless maldini would have scored or created a goal, then how would he have helped out?
     
  4. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Of course Maldini was and is not the reason for Milan's woes but getting a clean sheet at Livorno is nothing to sing about. Lucarelli blew it so the defense is far from reformed.

    How would a Maldini on defense help the offense? By being the a captain and by cheering on everyone on and getting behind the team. I believe against Inter anyway, he would have made a difference in the huge 4-0 margin, that is a given.
     
  5. jpick

    jpick Member

    Jul 5, 2006
    jacksonville, FL
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    so we lose 2-0 instead of 4-0 and have 4 points through 3 matches still. it wouldn't matter, plus he was there on the sidelines cheering against inter just behind the barrier and it didn't help. I wasn't saying that keeping a clean sheet at livorno was anything to write home about, just showing how in this match and siena (since we won) he could not really have helped and against inter we still would have lose since without kaka they are just a much better team than milan period, especially maicon against our fullbacks we have no answer for.

    just bizarre how you use this to point out how much he is missed when he probably wouldn't have even started. yeah, sure his leadership over time would have been useful, but on the field favalli outplayed him down the stretch, so he is not the main missing component, it was right for him to step away as he had deteriorated visibly from even 2007.

    now looking at kaka and gourcuff's performances so far this season...yeah that is where milan screwed up.

    just my opinion
     
  6. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Trust me he would have helped had he played! How couldn't he be a factor in a derby? He would have been the best defender out there and no one knows what would have happened......if he was there things could have changed easily...
     
  7. jpick

    jpick Member

    Jul 5, 2006
    jacksonville, FL
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    you have no proof of that. nesta and thiago silva did well the first half hour, after the first goal we fell apart, getting hit on a counter (something maldini was much more susceptible to at 41 with bad knees than say thiago silva) and then gattuso let us down after injury and when we went down to 10 inter completely dominated every area of the pitch and maicon ran rampant. in fact, nesta was one of the few milan players to get a 6 rating that match cause without him we would have lost by even more. you can't just look at a score and conclude automatically the whole defense must have sucked since they conceded x amount (in this case janks and zambrotta in addition to no midfield cover let the floodgates open) and even assuming you could, seeing how the goals were conceded and looking at maldini's play last year nobody could say he would be more effective on the counter or against maicon up the wing when the last few years he was burned on the counter quite often and athletic players had bothered him a lot of late.

    I can remember lavezzi, zarate among others giving him fits with their pace and energy...yet he would have stopped single-handedly eto'o and maicon given that janks was leaving nesta exposed 2 v 1 often???!?

    sorry i don't believe it, that is nostalgia, not reality

    I will give you that his leadership in the locker room could be useful as the year goes on, but on the field he would definitely be below silva and nesta at his age and those two aren't really the problem. they shined against siena and salvaged a point against livorno when in the first half our midfield looked shite, without them milan would be in even a worse spot believe it or not
     
  8. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Nostalgia has nothing to do with it. Its skill and experience. You do not go from being the greatest defender ever to being a nostalgic legend just in a span of three months....We are not talking about someone who retired 20 years ago here...You have no proof he wouldn't have been a force either..... I still think he would have contributed in a positive way on the pitch...Have it your own way. If you do not see it or do not agree with me thats fine. I happen to believe otherwise.
     
  9. jpick

    jpick Member

    Jul 5, 2006
    jacksonville, FL
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    but dude he wasn't the greatest defender ever LAST YEAR, that was my whole point :confused:

    You're mixing up career achievements with the present, nobody in their mind would call the 2008 maldini the greatest defender ever for that season alone

    Is that really that hard a concept to comprehend?
     
  10. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    He did well last year. I counted 1 maybe 2 matches where he didn't get a decent or above average rating...He was a good defender even on a weak 3rd place team. He was blamed because the entire team didn't play well but he was still a fine defender... The reason he was blamed was because everyone wanted a Maldini of old but at 40 it was impossible. Still even at 40 he did quite well..Just go back in the thread and look at his ratings....
     
  11. jpick

    jpick Member

    Jul 5, 2006
    jacksonville, FL
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    he got a lot of sympathy votes imho, in fact i remember stating that. plus i said he was "good," but not great by any means and not better than nesta or silva...and that was the whole point of this original debate, not whether he was still "good," it was whether he would be better than what we currently have.
     
  12. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Come on. Maldini? How can anyone believe this? I do not believe that at all! One match he got a 4.5 rating another one was 5.5 therefore, by your reasoning they should have given him better votes in those games too, but they didn't. As a rule he was above average as always...I would have played him at left back...
     
  13. jpick

    jpick Member

    Jul 5, 2006
    jacksonville, FL
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    yeah, when he played dreadful he got ripped apart, but he caught some soft judging as do all legends...though of course not every match. we're now getting sidetracked, the bottom line is i think with maldini we have 4 points at best so far and hence are no better off (and might be worse off), other than in the locker room perhaps so how can you miss a player badly when you would be no better off if you had him...anyways, we'll just agree to disagree i guess

    miss kaka, hell yes, gourcuff, hell yes, cissokho definitely, maldini? no
     
  14. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    But didn't you just post that "he got a lot of sympathy votes"? You are contradicting yourself. By your reasoning for that one game played almost a year ago, he should have had a a sympathy vote also. You are basing his entire 2008-2009 performace on that one match? Which defender doesn't have a lousy match? I count only 2 matches he didn't play well and that is it! Go back and look at the tapes...I've seen them all over and over..the match against Genoa alone merited a 2 year contract!














































     
  15. jpick

    jpick Member

    Jul 5, 2006
    jacksonville, FL
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    hehe, looking at the comments for some of those 6s, if it was senderos he would have gotten a 4.5. ;)
     
  16. Spartak

    Spartak Member

    Nov 6, 1999
    Philly
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maldini was pretty poor last year. Most journos and fans just overlooked his poor performances and hyped up his good performances because it was his last year. But it's irrelevant how good Maldini was last year. We could have Baresi and Maldini at their peak in our backline and it still wouldn't solve all Milan's problems this year.
     
  17. jpick

    jpick Member

    Jul 5, 2006
    jacksonville, FL
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    exactly, center defense is the least of our concerns right now.
     
  18. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    He wasn't that bad as you all think. I saw the games again and again this summer and he did well. Also, it was because he wasn't the player he once was that he was being criticized but he held his own.. The only reason everyone pointed to Maldini was because he was being scrutinized because of his age and being blamed for all of Milan's troubles. Clearly the midfield and offense as you say had many problems and it put more pressure on the defense to do that much better but the defense can only do so much when the offense can not do their job. Its like that in every team in the world.
     
  19. jpick

    jpick Member

    Jul 5, 2006
    jacksonville, FL
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    yeah, but your reasoning should support this year's defense more than last year's.

    last year the midfield would win possession 65-35 against minnows and then on one counter the defense would concede, but this year especially against inter and first half of livorno, the midfield was outplayed and defense under immense pressure...so that can't be used to support maldini, in fact our midfield after beckham came, flamini settled and pirlo got fit and of course kaka, it was actually pretty good at holding possession dominating territorial edge against most teams (except inter and juve and some other better midfields) and I think i remember spartak saying something to the effect of "if we had a mid-table midfield our defense would be bottom 5 in the league," and most of the posters agreed.
     
  20. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Actually, I am only judging from what I saw in the first 3 matches. My reasoning is supported based on those first 3 games. It remains to be seen what will happen the rest of the year. How can I judge what will happen the rest of the year if I haven't seen them play? None of us can tell as of yet how exactly Milan will end up finishing or playing. I'm certain a 41 year old Maldini would still have been able to be a useful force in the back. Will he be the Maldini of 21 or 31? Of course he would not be, but a decent capable defender he would have been and I still think he would have been better than 1/2 of the Serie A's defensemen.....its just too bad we can not see him anymore. Again you do not have to agree with what I am saying and you do not have to like it, (which obviously you do not want to bend) but this is my opinion which I am entiled to and from what I've seen thus far, I stand by it.
     
  21. jpick

    jpick Member

    Jul 5, 2006
    jacksonville, FL
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    yeah, i know, i didn't say you weren't entitled to it

    I just meant that your reasoning of "midfield play leaving the defense out to dry" was much more applicable this season and in fact not really that applicable last season at all, so if anything that would support my case that nesta and silva are better and hence maldini still being here so far this season would have almost no effect, as he would not even have seen the field this season so far.

    anyways, we have both said our opinions, i doubt we will change each other's minds though. ;)
     
  22. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Ok......but Maldini not be a starter? Not at 20, 30 40 or 50......would never happen....oh well either way wether you or I am right, too bad neither of us will never know....:)
     
  23. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
  24. kckal

    kckal New Member

    Jun 22, 2007
    Valparaíso, Chile
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    don't see why he wouldn't be useful to us in a director role, regardless of current form
     
  25. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I don't know him personally but I don't think he has it in him. Usually the star players aren't good in those roles. Leonardo has been with the club off the pitch for a number of years but not all star players have that knack to manage on or off the pitch.
     

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