Bigsoccer Votes for Iranian Elections

Discussion in 'Elections' started by Rostam, May 27, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Beerking

    Beerking Member+

    Nov 14, 2000
    Humboldt County
    "May you live in interesting times"

    I, along with the rest of the free world, watch with anticipation as the results of this sham of an election, unfold. Rise up, noble Persians, and reject the current dictatorship and their obvious fraud.
     
  2. Scarecrow

    Scarecrow Red Card

    Feb 13, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Khameni has announced that AN has won the BigSoccer vote with 90% of the count going to him.
     
  3. CrewDust

    CrewDust Member

    May 6, 1999
    Columbus, Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  4. !Bob

    !Bob Member

    Apr 28, 2005
    UK
    Since I really can't be arsed with the long version (I've had very little sleep and barely trying to keep up with everything), here's the short version:

    This is a virtual coup. A number of leaders/politicians/former MPs etc. (one example that people will recognise being Khatami's brother) have been arrested.

    Demonstrations in quite a few major cities in Iran. Clashes with the police and various places being set on fire.

    BUT, this is NOT a revolution.

    Still too early to tell, but everyone is pissed off or in a state of disbelief.

    Mousavi or Karrubi haven't come up with a statement yet. There were reports that Mousavi at least was arrested/kept under house arrest. Impossible to say whether true or not. There were reports of the left gathering and discussing it for hours to determine what to do next (it was at one of these gatherings of Khatami's party where a number of people were arrested). The latest suggests that Mousavi will make an announcement tomorrow at 12:30pm and has told people to gather (9:00am GMT). Karrubi has also said that he will make an announcement.

    The unofficial votes from a source inside Ministry of Interior were:

    nofficial news - reports leaked results from Interior Ministry:
    Eligible voters: 49,322,412
    Votes cast: 42,026,078
    Spoilt votes: 38,716
    Mir Hossein Mousavi: 19,075,623
    Mehdi Karoubi: 13,387,104
    Mahmoud Ahmadi-nejad (incumbent): 5,698,417
    Mohsen Rezaei (conservative candidate): 3,754,218

    Incidentally, whilst Rezaei backed off after Khamenei's announcement, he is yet to congratulate AN!! This is big since he is a former head of the Revolutionary Guard. Basically, the show is run by Revolutionary Guard, Militia and a few clerics behind AN (Mesbah Yazdi that I mentioned earlier being the ring leader). However, the RG or Militia are far from united behind AN.

    Time shall tell. (Yep, that was the short version!!)
     
  5. kindred

    kindred New Member

    Jul 27, 2007
    Chapel Hill
    !Bob -

    those leaked figures are stunning, and seem as implausible as the official figures. Karoubi with more than twice as many votes as Ahmadinejad? Rezei with more than half as many? do you have a source?
     
  6. johnh00

    johnh00 Member

    Apr 25, 2001
    CT, USA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w6rWdrPTbE"]YouTube - Iranians protesting against election results 2009 (3/4)[/ame]

    "Death to the government!"

    I think the government will get control of things in the next day or two, but they've got a problem. And it's not just their corrupt and inept government, it's demographics. They have too many young people, and whenever you have too many young people, it leads to unrest. Whether it's America in the '60's or Iran today. Too many angry young men, and you reach a tipping point.
     
  7. JBigjake

    JBigjake Member+

    Nov 16, 2003
    How are votes tallied in Iran? Is each ballot box emptied & counted? Are there witnesses? Are the results relayed to district, then county & provincial centers before being forwarded to Tehran? If there are witnesses for the various candidates, wouldn't they be able to report their observations to party HQ?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provinces_of_Iran
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counties_of_Iran
     
  8. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    The short answer is as follows:

    Each box is opened and the ballots counted and read out in front of 10 people from the Ministry of Interior, the GC, in the presence of the representatives of the candidates.

    The count then is verified through a "minutes of meeting" (soorat jalaseh) with signatures of all those present. When all the boxes for each voting place are counted, the numbers are put into a form called "form 22". Form 22 is relayed to provincial centers and when all the form 22 reports come, the final provincial tally is made in another form called "form 28" and sent to headquarters in Tehran.

    Before form 22 turns into form 28 in each province, rumors and reports about the election outcome start circulating. Essentially, each side begin to report the election based on hearsay reports regarding the form 22 results in each voting place, each with their partisan twist.

    The election results in Iran can easily be investigated and confirmed. Especially in light of special procedures employed this time, which included matching each box with a roll call list of national ID card numbers for voters who had put ballots into that box. In other words, each box has a roll call list to match it and the national id card system is computerized. Verifying each box and its ballot is imminently doable in Iran.

    As for counting the ballots inside the boxes, if a "recount is necessary", that can be done as well. But each box already has a signed MOM (minute of meeting) and each voting place has a form 22 which it has already sent to provincial headquarters. And each provincial headquarter has taken all the form 22 numbers in the province and put them in form 28 and transmitted the information to election headquarters in Tehran. They really just need to verify that each box has the requisite MOM and the rest is simple math.
     
  9. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    The "figures" !Bob gave are based on "someone" (anonymous and not identified) in the interior ministry telling some journalist (affiliated with the anti-Ahmadinejad camp) that the real figures were really as such, with no basis for how that person knows or where he got that number from? (I have also seen a photo of some board with various numbers written as though we can't each write numbers on a board and take a picture of it!). Even assuming for the sake of argument that "someone" in the interior ministry is not a fiction of imagination, but a real person, it means nothing. Just an unverified claim which defies every reliable poll, including from the reformist camp themselves. Indeed, thsoe numbers to me are clearly false and lies. The kind of lies that are spread by those who loudly accuse the other side of lying.

    For those who might not be aware, let me add the following: Iran's bucreaucy and government was itself very divided between the various candidates and was during the run up to the election. Indeed, as ironic as it might be, below the cabinet level appointees, the upper and lower managerial posts in the bucreaucy are filled with people who are loyal to the previous administrations that controlled the executive branch for 16 years before Ahmadinejad. Indeed, most senior government bucreauts (who are civil servants who keep their jobs regardless of who wins elections) are against Ahmadinejad, with Ahmadinejad enjoying a following within the government bucreaucy mostly from the ranks of pensioneers, staff workers, janitors, etc.
     
  10. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    Ahmadinejad needs to, IMO, acknowledge the claims and allegations of the other side. And then ask all those 24 million who voted for him to do the following to put this matter to rest: On Friday, as many of them as can, should each go to the exact voting place they cast their votes for him. And then let the numbers be roughly counted again.

    In the meantime, the Interior Ministry should release ASAP the provincial breakdown of the numbers for all the provinces and regions. Based on the Interior Minister's comments in his press conference, I should mention that Mousavi has indeed won some big cities like Tehran. While he did very poorly in the provinces, with Ahmadinejad trouncing him in those places, he did well in big cities which account for most of his 13 million votes.
     
  11. Laith

    Laith Member

    May 10, 2006
    Club:
    Al Nasr Riyadh
    Nat'l Team:
    Saudi Arabia
    I dont understand...what difference does all this make? Isnt Iran run by "Wilayat al Faqih" and Im sure those supreme jurists dont get elected, so why people getting riled up whether Ahmadinejad or Mousavi won?

    Also, I fear westernized Iranians here are really disconnected from the majority of their rural brethren...the western media fooled you into thinking that Ahmadinejad is unpopular in your own country.
     
  12. Beerking

    Beerking Member+

    Nov 14, 2000
    Humboldt County
    Apologist.
     
  13. Laith

    Laith Member

    May 10, 2006
    Club:
    Al Nasr Riyadh
    Nat'l Team:
    Saudi Arabia
    LOL the Jews already chiming in on the election result:

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gWi9hJXmHRyYjNwd_IH3RL3abpkwD98PVDL80
     
  14. Laith

    Laith Member

    May 10, 2006
    Club:
    Al Nasr Riyadh
    Nat'l Team:
    Saudi Arabia
    Mr "beer" king, I dont have any need to apologize for any Iranian candidate, Im just commenting on the established fact that Iran is run by ayatollahs, they dont get elected, and they are the ones who set their nation's domestic and foreign policies, like the nuclear issue and the other reasons why the jews like you are eagerly following these elections. ;)

    Actually I really feel bad for the Iranian people, the high turn out shows that the mood for change and reform was really in the minds of the populace, but due to the subsequent events, I fear future turn out will never be so high, as the people become more and more jaded.
     
  15. JBigjake

    JBigjake Member+

    Nov 16, 2003
    Are the ballot boxes kept in plain view during voting? Are the boxes opened and the ballots tallied immediately after the closing of the polls? It seems unlikely that anyone could switch tens of thousands of actual ballot boxes.
    Are representatives of the candidates also present at the provincial centers? How are the reports transmitted? Fax? Are witnesses able to review the reports as they come in?
    Are results normally made available on-line or published in local newspapers?
    Was this done in previous elections?
     
  16. Mani

    Mani BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 1, 2004
    Club:
    Perspolis
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    I don't think any of us here care much about what a Wahabist apologist of the Saudi regime has to say about dissent, democracy, and elections in Iran. One of the main reason why the people of Iran care such about ensuring free and fair elections in Iran, is because we don't want our country to become like yours.
     
  17. MasterShake29

    MasterShake29 Member+

    Oct 28, 2001
    Jersey City, NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This post just got a shout out from Reason Magazine's Hit and Run blog!
     
  18. JBigjake

    JBigjake Member+

    Nov 16, 2003
    Iranian Election results

    Perhaps no one is paying enough attention to him in WR. Maybe you can persuade a mod to delete his posts and keep this thread on topic.
    "BigSoccer.com, of all places, has a bunch of protest photos here. Maybe I shouldn't be surprised to see that at a soccer board -- it isn't the first time the sport has intersected with Iranian dissent."
    So, let's not act like hooligans, eh, Laith?
    "western journalists mistook Mir Hossein Mousavi's articulate and educated supporters in northern Tehran for the voice of the people at large."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Deweytruman12.jpg
     
  19. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    The either/or proposition, namely either the president is "all powerful", or alternatively has "no powers", is wrong. Iran's president presides over the government and is responsible for the day to day running management of the affairs of the country. He chairs the Supreme National Security Council, which has a representative from the Supreme Leader and other organs and sets the national security and foreign policy agenda of the state. He chairs the Supreme Cutural Revolution Council, which again has representatives from the other organs and the Supreme Leader and sets the broad cultural policies of the state. He introduces the national budget, which then needs to be voted on by the parliament, which together essentially set the fiscal policies of the state. He appoints the governor of the Central Bank, which sets the monetary policies of the state. The president appoints ambassadors, who represent Iran internationally, as well as cabinet officers who run the government bucreaucy -- the latter appointed upon confirmation by the parliament. He is even influential in the administration of sports in the country, since he appoints the head of the Physical Education Organization which oversees government funding for and indirectly the activities of the various sports federations.

    That doesn't mean, however, that the president is all powerful. In Iran's system, major decisions require consensus between the president and the Supreme Leader and the organs which answer to him. The latter, in combination, akin to say the US Supreme Court in terms of setting the constitutional and broad policy framework that the government needs to follow, albeit with the difference that the Supreme Leader does have the "sword" and some control even over the "purse". He is the commander in chief of the armed forces and appoints military commanders. There are many public foundations which controls a lot of money which are outside the purview of the government and answer to his appointees. The Supreme Leader also appoints the head of the state broadcasting media, which gives him control over the state media. And he appoints half the members of the Guardians Council, which vets legislation passed by the parliament for its conformity with the constitution and Islamic law, and which vets candidates for parliament and president. The Supreme Leader also appoints the head of the judiciary, who incidentally nominates the other half of the Guardians Council for the parliament to vote on and approve.

    In this mix of powers, some of it overlapping and others rather distinct, the main truth about how Iran works is that you end up with many cooks and few chiefs in the kitchen. The Supreme Leader is not involved in the nitty gritty of the operation of the government and his representatives to the organs I mentioned are essentially chosen from a mix of factions with competing interests. The president, on the other hand, has more responsibility and influence than actual power to force anyone (except for his direct appointees) to do his bidding.

    One last comment. In Iran's system, the top jurists are actually elected to a body called the "Assembly of Experts". And that body both appoints the Supreme Leader when there is a vacancy and has the power to supervise and even dismiss the Supreme Leader. As a backdrop to the political struggle taking place in Iran, I should mention that the current president of the Assembly of Experts is Hashemi Rafsanajani -- the main nemesis of Ahmadinejad and the figure that Ahmadinejad has pointed as behind much of the problems his government has faced and much of the corruption that previous governments have suffered from.

    There are many objective foreign reports, but the problem is that there are few objective "commentaries" on the media outlet that is most influential: television. Otherwise, the most accurate polls about Iran are those taken by Americans. And unlike the "reformist media" in Iran which is often busy passing rumors and falsehoods every bit as much as the media aligned to the principalist factions, wire service reports from the west are often (not always) at least somewhat factual. Just like Iranian "polls", which happen to consistently produce results in favor of the faction which is taking them, Iranian print and online media often consists of polemical pieces that pass as news. Which means we don't really have a news outlet that all Iranians would trust for the news. Each listens to the "facts" and "news" that fit their preconceived notions better.
     
  20. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    Absolutely.


    Theoretically, it is possible to "switch" the boxes but in practical sense it is impossible. Thousands of government employees are involved in this process and Iran's bucreaucy is quite divided with each of these employees themselves rooting for different candidates. There are also representatives from the candidates present during the process. Mousavi's campaign has alleged that some of their representatives in some of the voting places were barred with their credential questioned. Even if that is the case, we had representatives from the 2 other opponents of Ahmadinejad, namely Karrubi and Rezaie.

    To my knowledge, not directly. Instead, you have the interior ministry tallying the votes at this stage, with representatives from the GC (Guadians Council) monitoring their activity and confirming the form 28 reports.
    Absolutely.

    This is the one anamoly that I have noticed, although we have to recall the official results were announced only 17 hours ago. Iran's interior minister indicated the breakdown will be posted soon and I expect that to happen ASAP. Until then, we will have all sorts of rumors and some of the skepticism will be justified.

    I should mention that contrary to rumors posted here and there, Mousavi did actually win some key votes, including the vote in Tehran which is symbolically a very important vote.
     
  21. Scarecrow

    Scarecrow Red Card

    Feb 13, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Must spread and all that.....

    SO true and dead on accurate.
     
  22. Scarecrow

    Scarecrow Red Card

    Feb 13, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  23. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    I'm reminded why I seldom read this board. There is too much antisemitism and it is far, far too often tacitly approved and overlooked.

    Israel is not equal to "the Jews". Nor is there such a thing as "the Jews". We're not a monolithic group.
     
  24. Mani

    Mani BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 1, 2004
    Club:
    Perspolis
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    The have officially arrested dozens of Party leaders of the main reformist parties, including Khomeini's grand daughter, Khatami and his brother.
     
  25. Mani

    Mani BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 1, 2004
    Club:
    Perspolis
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran

Share This Page