Pots for WCQ 2010 - UEFA zone

Discussion in 'UEFA and Europe' started by Edgar, Dec 14, 2005.

  1. Edgar

    Edgar Member

    UEFA will have 13 spots for the 2010 WC.

    Two possible systems:

    7 groups: winners + 5 best runners-up qualify directly. The other 2 play-off.
    8 groups: winners + 2 best runners-up qualify directly. The other 6 play-off.

    7 groups

    Pot 1: Italy, Netherlands, Sweden, Germany, Croatia, Czechia, Portugal
    Pot 2: Serbia, England, Poland, Turkey, Romania, France, Ukraine
    Pot 3: Greece, Russia, Denmark, Norway, Slovakia, Switzerland, Israel
    Pot 4: Spain, Bulgaria, Finland, Scotland, Austria, Ireland, Bosnia-Herzegovina
    Pot 5: Belgium, Hungary, Latvia, Slovenia, Northern Ireland, Estonia, Lithuania
    Pot 6: Belarus, Macedonia, Albania, Wales, Georgia, Cyprus, Liechtenstein
    Pot 7: Iceland, Armenia, Malta, Moldova, Andorra, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan
    Pot 8: Faroe Islands, Luxembourg, San Marino

    8 groups

    Pot 1: Italy, Netherlands, Sweden, Germany, Croatia, Czechia, Portugal, Serbia
    Pot 2: England, Poland, Turkey, Romania, France, Ukraine, Greece, Russia
    Pot 3: Denmark, Norway, Slovakia, Switzerland, Israel, Spain, Bulgaria, Finland
    Pot 4: Scotland, Austria, Ireland, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Belgium, Hungary, Latvia, Slovenia
    Pot 5: Northern Ireland, Estonia, Lithuania, Belarus, Macedonia, Albania, Wales, Georgia
    Pot 6: Cyprus, Liechtenstein, Iceland, Armenia, Malta, Moldova, Andorra, Azerbaijan
    Pot 7: Kazakhstan, Faroe Islands, Luxembourg, San Marino
     
  2. Forza AZ

    Forza AZ New Member

    Jun 26, 2003
    Alkmaar
    I don't think 7 groups is likely, because then some teams might play 16 matches. That's a bit to much I think. I guess they will use 8 groups.
     
  3. sicnarf

    sicnarf New Member

    Jun 14, 2005
    Edinburgh, UK
    Cross-post from another thread: link

     
  4. Sagy

    Sagy Member

    Aug 6, 2004
    In order to eliminate "Best 2nd place" team advancing automatically (I just don't like it). How about one of the following alternatives. Not that UEFA will go for either of these, I'm just looking for other people opinions.

    Option A:
    13 groups of 4 teams in which each team play two games at home against each of the other teams

    Current pots:
    1. Italy, Netherlands, Sweden, Germany, Croatia, Czechia, Portugal, Serbia, England, Poland, Turkey, Romania, France
    2. Ukraine, Greece, Russia, Denmark, Norway, Slovakia, Switzerland, Israel, Spain, Bulgaria, Finland, Scotland, Austria
    3. Ireland, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Belgium, Hungary, Latvia, Slovenia, Northern Ireland, Estonia, Lithuania, Belarus, Macedonia, Albania, Wales
    4. Georgia, Cyprus, Liechtenstein, Iceland, Armenia, Malta, Moldova, Andorra, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Faroe Islands, Luxembourg, San Marino
    Advantages:
    - Total of 12 games in 12 game dates, less than other proposals.
    - One or two bad results will not eliminate a team.
    - The best team from each group is very likely to advance.

    Disadvantages:
    - The draw is going the key in determining the qualifiers.
    - Very few groups are likely to be competitive.
    - Having to play 4 games against the same team in a little over a year.


    Option B:
    9 groups with 9 second place teams going into a play off, 4 seeded and 5 unseeded teams. 6 teams play home & away and the last three teams play each other only once (each team gets a single home game, like the UEFA U-21 qualifiers in 2006). The format will be:
    Unseeded 1 - Seeded
    Unseeded 2 - Unseeded 1
    Seeded - Unseeded 2

    Current pots:
    1. Italy, Netherlands, Sweden, Germany, Croatia, Czechia, Portugal, Serbia, England
    2. Poland, Turkey, Romania, France, Ukraine, Greece, Russia, Denmark, Norway
    3. Slovakia, Switzerland, Israel, Spain, Bulgaria, Finland, Scotland, Austria, Ireland
    4. Bosnia-Herzegovina, Belgium, Hungary, Latvia, Slovenia, Northern Ireland, Estonia, Lithuania, Belarus
    5. Macedonia, Albania, Wales, Georgia, Cyprus, Liechtenstein, Iceland, Armenia, Malta
    6. Moldova, Andorra, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Faroe Islands, Luxembourg, San Marino

    Advantages:
    - 10 match days for group play plus 2 game (3 match days) for 2nd place teams.
    - This will work well if Montenegro and Gibraltar take part in the 2010 WCQ (nine groups of 6 teams).

    Disadvantages:
    - unorthodox playoff format for one of the spots.
     
  5. sicnarf

    sicnarf New Member

    Jun 14, 2005
    Edinburgh, UK
    Some interesting ideas there Sagy...

    I quite like Option A from the point of view of having less games overall, and if you've played the same team three times already, the fourth game could be quite an interesting tactical battle.

    It could also be quite good (revenue and experience-wise) for some of the smaller teams (eg. Andorra may well relish the prospect of getting to play Spain or France four times in one season)

    But yes I think the likelihood is that the top-seeded team in each group is odds-on to qualify, without the excitement for the other teams of having the chance to reach a play-off.


    Option B I'm less keen on, mainly because, as you point out, it's another "non-standard" play-off format that is probably just as bad as "best 2nd-placed teams". I don't like the idea of reaching a play-off and then only having one single game in which to get through. The other disadvantage is that to make it fair, the one-game play-offs would have to be at a neutral venue, probably meaning less fans would be able to see the game
     
  6. Sagy

    Sagy Member

    Aug 6, 2004
    Thanks

    Clerification, the teams in the last playoff group do get to play two game (one home, one away) it is just that the games are not against same team:
    Team A plays team B at home and team C away.
    Team B plays team C at home and team A away.
    Team C plays team A at home and team B away.

    I do agree that the "non-standard" play-off format is a big issue.
     
  7. sicnarf

    sicnarf New Member

    Jun 14, 2005
    Edinburgh, UK
    Ahhhhh, sorry - trust me to miss the point entirely :rolleyes:

    That isn't a bad idea - yes, it's still a "non-standard" format, but quite an interesting one, and I think I've changed my opinion now and prefer Option B :D - as long as there are playoffs, I'd be happy as I think the format for the current Euro2008 qualifiers just isn't as exciting.
     
  8. Timanfaya

    Timanfaya Member+

    May 31, 2005
    Southampton
    *If* there happened to be 51 teams in the qualifiers, then three groups would only have 5 teams in. You could pre-arrange for the three runners up from these particular groups to play each other home and away, and they'd still only have to play 12 games each in all - 8 group games plus 4 playoff. In the 6-team groups it would be a max of 10 group games plus 2 playoff.

    And the overall chance of qualifying from these groups would be 4/15, which is really damn close to the 3/12 chance from the 6-team groups.
     
  9. Forza AZ

    Forza AZ New Member

    Jun 26, 2003
    Alkmaar
    There aren't 51 teams. UEFA has 53 members now. If Montenegro will take part isn't completely certain yet I think, but you would at least have 52 teams in qualifying.

    And you say that these teams also play 12 matches. That's true, but because there are an odd number of teams in both the groups and the play-offs you need 16 matchdays for that. For the teams from groups of 6 you only need 12 matchdays.
     
  10. Timanfaya

    Timanfaya Member+

    May 31, 2005
    Southampton
  11. Edgar

    Edgar Member

    Only one match played on February 7th (San Marino - Ireland 1 - 2). Ireland climbs 3 places to 27th. Finland, Scotland and Austria drop one place.
     
  12. Edgar

    Edgar Member

    The deadline for confirming WCQ participation is March 1st 2007. Montenegro will only become a FIFA member in May 2007. Of course, it is possible that FIFA will allow them to confirm their participation after they gain membership.
     
  13. Edgar

    Edgar Member

    Montenegro will take part in the WC 2010 qualifiers -> FIFA.com

     
  14. Edgar

    Edgar Member

    Code:
    1 Italy (TH)          2.200
    2 Germany             2.600
    3 Netherlands         2.556
    4 Croatia             2.467
    5 Sweden              2.400
    6 Poland              2.353
    7 Portugal            2.278
    8 England             2.250
    9 Czechia             2.222
    10 Ukraine            2.176
    11 France             2.133
    12 Turkey             2.118
    13 Romania            2.118
    14 Serbia             2.063
    15 Russia             2.000
    16 Greece             1.941
    17 Spain              1.933
    18 Israel             1.813
    19 Denmark            1.813
    20 Switzerland        1.800
    21 Slovakia           1.778
    22 Ireland            1.765
    23 Norway             1.667
    24 Bulgaria           1.600
    25 Scotland           1.563
    26 Bosnia-Herzegovina 1.533
    27 Finland            1.500
    28 Austria            1.500
    29 Northern Ireland   1.375
    30 Hungary            1.333
    31 Belgium            1.188
    32 Belarus            1.133
    33 Latvia             1.125
    34 Slovenia           1.067
    35 Estonia            1.000
    36 Albania            0.941
    37 Wales              0.933
    38 Lithuania          0.933
    39 Macedonia          0.889
    40 Georgia            0.889
    41 Liechtenstein      0.647
    42 Cyprus             0.500
    43 Armenia            0.471
    44 Malta              0.467
    45 Iceland            0.467
    46 Azerbaijan         0.438
    47 Moldova            0.438
    48 Kazakhstan         0.333
    49 Andorra            0.294
    50 Faroe Islands      0.063
    51 Luxembourg         0.000
    52 San Marino         0.000
    53 Montenegro         0.000
    Pot 1: Italy, Germany, Netherlands, Croatia, Sweden, Poland, Portugal, England
    Pot 2: Czechia, Ukraine, France, Turkey, Romania, Serbia, Russia, Greece
    Pot 3: Spain, Israel, Denmark, Switzerland, Slovakia, Ireland, Norway, Bulgaria
    Pot 4: Scotland, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Finland, Austria, Northern Ireland, Hungary, Belgium, Belarus
    Pot 5: Latvia, Slovenia, Estonia, Albania, Wales, Lithuania, Macedonia, Georgia
    Pot 6: Liechtenstein, Cyprus, Armenia, Malta, Iceland, Azerbaijan, Moldova, Kazakhstan
    Pot 7: Andorra, Faroe Islands, Luxembourg, San Marino, Montenegro

    Possible draw:

    Group A: Portugal, France, Israel, Belarus, Latvia, Moldova, Faroe Islands
    Group B: Netherlands, Turkey, Switzerland, Austria, Slovenia, Malta, Luxembourg
    Group C: Germany, Greece, Norway, Belgium, Albania, Liechtenstein, San Marino
    Group D: Sweden, Serbia, Ireland, Hungary, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Andorra
    Group E: Poland, Ukraine, Spain, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Estonia, Cyprus, Montenegro
    Group F: Italy, Russia, Bulgaria, Northern Ireland, Wales, Armenia
    Group G: Croatia, Czechia, Slovakia, Scotland, Lithuania, Kazakhstan
    Group H: England, Romania, Denmark, Finland, Macedonia, Iceland
     
  15. deyna199

    deyna199 Member

    Sep 6, 2005
    Vancouver
    Nat'l Team:
    Poland
    anyone know when the draw for this will be? i am assuming when euro2008 qualifying ends? so december 2007?
     
  16. Edgar

    Edgar Member

    November 23rd 2007 - Durban, South Africa.
     
  17. scaryice

    scaryice Member

    Jan 25, 2001
    Now that we know UEFA will have 13 spots for 2010, it seems almost a certainty that they'll use the same scenario as last time: 8 groups, top 2 second place teams qualify, then the 6 other second place teams playoff for 3 spots.

    Having said that, you should have a little space between each "pot" of 8 teams in your list there, Edgar.
     
  18. scaryice

    scaryice Member

    Jan 25, 2001
    Hardest possible group

    Italy
    France
    Spain
    Austria
    Slovenia
    Iceland

    Easiest possible group

    Poland
    Serbia
    Slovakia
    Belarus
    Georgia
    Malta
     
  19. vancity eagle

    vancity eagle Member+

    Apr 6, 2006
    what the hell is this based on ? Why would Poland be in Pot A and France be in Pot B. That makes absolutley no sense.
     
  20. scaryice

    scaryice Member

    Jan 25, 2001
    The facts.
     
  21. Timanfaya

    Timanfaya Member+

    May 31, 2005
    Southampton
    Macedonia AGAIN? Arse!
     
  22. vancity eagle

    vancity eagle Member+

    Apr 6, 2006
    what facts would have Poland above France in a qualifying draw ?
     
  23. scaryice

    scaryice Member

    Jan 25, 2001
    2006 World Cup qualifying

    Poland: 24 pts in 10 games
    France: 20 pts in 10 games

    2008 European Championship qualifying

    Poland: 16 pts in 7 games
    France: 12 pts in 5 games

    Overall

    Poland: 40/17 = 2.35 PPG
    France: 32/15 = 2.13 PPG

    That's how it's decided.
     
  24. jpick

    jpick Member

    Jul 5, 2006
    jacksonville, FL
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    wow, that's retarded, imo, cause that doesn't take into account things like having an easier versus a tougher group, and to not take into account any major tournaments, that is bogus. what a stupid system.
     
  25. Sagy

    Sagy Member

    Aug 6, 2004
    Taking into account results in the major tournaments themselves would hurt most teams that qualified. In France's case:
    Code:
                Points  Games  Ave
    Qualifiers   32      15    2.13
    WC06+Euro04  22      11    2.00
    Total        54      26    2.08
    Easier v. harder groups is a legitimate criticism of this system. On the other side this system is based on "on the field" results. Can the system be improved upon? Yes, but this is not a bad system.
     

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