[red & wite army]

So I'm looking 'back' at my childhood
Back to the days of when I first watched football
The days of the World Cup 98 in France
The days of shiney football shirts and black boots

The players I marvelled at were Bergkamp, Zidane, Del Piero, Totti, THE Ronaldo.

As time moved on I grew to like players like Pires, Henry, Riquelme, Beckham, etc.

I now look at the popular players of football today - Cronaldo, Robinho, Quaresma.

Sure, these new players are good, but I don't get too excited about them - I'm now noticing a distinct difference to the players I've liked, and the ones that today are deemed great...

Tricks...is it my imagination, or do players like Quaresma and Robinho do static stepovers and random little tricks whenever possible - and while they do so, the opposition just jockeys them? In this time, their team has lost space, and they haven't created space either. And then of course these guys rely on pace.

But what happened to the days where it was important to have a good touch, and then throw in a trick where necessary. In fact, I wouldn't even call them tricks - they were more like fancy moves to get out of a tight space or around a man.

This isn't a great video, or too exciting - but Zidane's first few skills just embody what I feel is slowly leaving the game. Gone are purposeful stepovers and turns or feints...we now seem to see an overload of fancy footwork at a standstill or distance, and a bit of push and run.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkA7I...eature=related

DISCUSS...

[Shrapnac]

It's a lot harder to idolize your peers than it is to idolize players who are 10, 15, 20 years older than you.

[Case]

Agree and disagree- yes certain players have clever showboat footwork that really gets them nowhere, but then having a defender jockey you in itself buys your teammates time to get open-it's a basketball pointguard thing, or can be used like a quarterback looking off his intended target. Stepovers, dragovers etc can be used simply as a stalling tactic as you await movements to develop, and true playmakers utilise this, however few have reached the levels that Zidane achieved. Admittedly many current players just throw a trick for the crowd, but I have no problems with that so long as they don't lose the ball or ignore a better option, but then I think your list of "old time heroes" has players who themselves at times were guilty of overplaying.
Yes I'm a huge Cristi mark, BUT it is undeniable how effective the kid can be. His absence from big games aside, as an outlet winger he will reliably move the ball 10-50 yards downfield whilst keeping posession, and the guy has taken the tricks of the Zizou's and made them a science. Whilst Zidane played with beauty and soul, Cristi plays with calculated effectiveness. Robinho and Quaresma are less effective, due to the higher demands of athleticism in the modern game- Robs is small and can be bullied out of games whilst Quaresma is lazy and lacks the quickness at the highest level. "THE Ronaldo" covered his patchy touch with his powerful speed in his younger days, notable in how he has to play now since he lost that first yard.

Of the current players, you omit the diamond in the gemstones that is Messi, who kind of counters the notion that players are just show ponys now. Seriously, the guy has absolutely no tricks, only one foot and is the size of a child, yet his supernatural balance and swift movement, combined with as composed touch as you get, makes this unlikely athlete as effective a footballer as there is on the planet.

"Skill" ie tricks has become a more prominent part of the game over the past decade, and as such defenders are more savvy to it themselves. Now that everyone's mother can do the elastico it's much harder to pull it off in an penetrative way as opponents are less likely to be suckered into such a dummy. Defensive attributes have also changed accordingly, fullbacks are now the fittest fastest players on the team to counterforward running into the channels, which restructures an attackers perogative as a slowmo full preki will not gain you the same space and time as a quick push and run.

I honestly believe skill is at it's all-time highest in world soccer, and is more important a component than it ever has been in the game. Zizou was a rare-freak who lifted the bar for the generation to follow him- that they are yet to meet his standards is hardly proof positive that this current crop are not upto par.

[cjump]

to prove your point R&W, what did this accomplish against arsenal or even hoyte?
[youtube]0JQWhz90TUg[/youtube]

[red & wite army]

I think that Shrapnac's point is very valid - I find it hard to even muster up much man-love for Cesc these days.

As for Case's vast contribution - much appreciated. There's some great points there, and I of course have left out many points in my argument. But Perhaps the point I really was trying to make is that there seem to be a lot more of these 'flash nonsence skill players' in football today - and many people seem to love it.

I suppose the topic won't take us anywhere, or get to anything, but I do find it interesting how football has evolved in a few short years.

As for cjump's video clip - that's the exact thing I'm trying to point out. It's entertaining, but at the end of the day gets you nowhere. The game does need it, but perhaps the thing that infuriates me most is how many 'fans' will go onto gloat and shout about how 'Ronaldo completely owned and outclassed Hoyte there!'

[thebigman]

it's just showboating, it happens in all sport

ronaldo is effective with it, but his main asset is speed, without speed his tricks would be useless..... whereas zidane used tricks to create space for himself as he wasnt the quickest but when he picked up speed he made driving runs, zidane used the space to deliver ridiculous passes as he was central

u can see in walcott, if u have the speed tricks arent necessary as unless the fullback is ridiculously quick or laterally fast then u can just cut inside and then change angle and either speed past them or draw contact

[Case]

I do think it's a good topic of debate sanch, the change in the game has certainly been noticeable and the pop-media has jumped on it - the major manufacturers are all over it since those early Nike 3 on 3 ads, then onto Joga TV, Adidas's campaigns that see the world united by trick-articulate superstars, Pepsi's trick teaching ads and onto Puma's cyborg's as the future. Look at Fifa street, and SoccerAMs showboat and skill school, these all eulogise (very possibly spelt/used incorrectly- but I'm in a rush) tricks and skill and idolise those famous players with them.
It could be argued that the improvements in playing surfaces over the past 15 years has created an environment when ball-playing is more achievable due to the predictability of roll and bounce, and in turn puts more emphasis on it as defenders are more savvy themselves. This enabled those naturally gifted players of the 90s to flourish, and the mass-media sent images of this around the world. Then we all went online and spoke about it, went outside and copied the skills ourselves, filmed it and put it on blogs and youtube. Then kids see this and themselves go out and learn these tricks as closed skill, in the garden, so when they grow up they can do them so long as no-one trys tackling them- and this is where I believe the "flash nonsense" comes in. Combine this with the popularity of "Urban Sports Culture" during the time and we have a generation raised by Wesley Snipes teaching Woody Harrelson the importance of dunking on a fool to make em look bad. Hey presto we've got the And1 mixtape tour.
I personally see a huge shift in the UK, I swear after learning stepovers in coaching schools as a kid I never used one, or saw them used, until my career aspirations were over and I started playing amateur adult footy whereby the emphasise is less on winning on the scoreboard and more about proving yourself better than the opposition in the less tangible ways. Now every kid you see has mad ball skill but can't deal with the big lad who knocks em off the ball and thumps it at goal!

Sure, showboating is part of the modern game, but when you give young men the carrot of millions of pounds and celebrity status, there ego's will be so wrapped up in their image that why wouldn't your championship winger wanna make a highlight reel for himself hoping to get that endorsement. Might not impress his manager, but if it impresses the sponsors....

On a personal level, to me sport is in many ways a tool to assert our dominance over our peers, and proving to oneself that we can skin a defender is a very empowering affirmation in an era whereby our phylogenetically developed aggressive competitiveness is squashed by social norm - we can't fight to prove our 'fitness', so we use our fitness and skill to do it. The conflict between naturally selected instinct, and socialised mating patterns mean that men especially are innately insecure i.e. we feel the need to enhance our ego by nutmeggind a fullback then wrapping the wrong leg behind the other to chip a cross in!

It's not completely new, but historically people with maaad ball-juggling skills were very rarely able to apply themselves to the game of football. Take Stevie G as an antithesis of this, I dunno if the guy could do more than 10 keepy-ups but he's simply put amazingly proficcient at the game of football....



(more later, ain't u lucky!)

[Shrapnac]

Originally Posted by cjump

to prove your point R&W, what did this accomplish against arsenal or even hoyte?

That Ronaldo is highly effective at taking the ball into the corner and wasting time?

[Case]

Dude did some awesome ish and got a gooner to show his true vicious colors, how can you call that "wasting time"!

[shrtysskat8]

Originally Posted by Case

Dude did some awesome ish and got a gooner to show his true vicious colors, how can you call that "wasting time"!

i think that it was close to the end of the match and that's the reason he was doing it there. his team has the lead, why would he not waste time like that?