[kevbrunton]

In the KC - Fire game last night, Tony Meola was shown his second yellow/red in stoppage time. KC had already made their 3 substitutions -- Brown at 46, Gomez at 62 and McKeon at 75 (see below).

KC was allowed to put Oshoniyi in as the GK (taking Preki off the field). Why were they allowed to do that when they had already made their 3 subs? Does MLS allow a 4th sub if it's for the GK?

Thanks.

KANSAS CITY WIZARDS--Tony Meola, Nick Garcia, Carey Talley, Mike Burns, Diego Gutierrez, Chris Klein (Chris Brown 46), Kerry Zavagnin, Preki (Bo Oshoniyi 92+), Eric Quill (Matt McKeon 75), Stephen Armstrong, Dario Fabbro (Francisco Gomez 62)

[MassachusettsRef]

Originally posted by kevbrunton
Does MLS allow a 4th sub if it's for the GK?

Yes. MLS has a "3 + 1 substitution rule", where the "1" has to be a goalkeeper substitution.

[deep-throat]

Before someone asks, this is the way the "technical" aspect of the Law works in this situation. As MassachussetsRef says, after a team has used their 3 "field subs", the only sub they can make is a "goalkeeper for a goalkeeper". When Meola gets sent off, obviously they wont to get Bo (their backup goalie) into the game, so they make a "goalkeeper sub". How they do that - technically - is that after Meola is sent off, KC tell the ref that Preki is now becoming the goalkeeper; they then request the goalkeeper sub; Oshoni replaces Preki (who is now the keeper). Of course they do this without ever having to put Preki in goal - it looks funky, but is legal, and avoids having to make someone (Preki) dress as the keeper then come out immediately.

[kevbrunton]

Does the EPL or other European leagues have this rule? If Blackburn had already used their 3 subs and Friedel took someone down and got tossed, would they be able to put in the backup keeper or would they have to put a field player in goal.

What about the WC -- isn't it just straight 3 subs there?

[MassachusettsRef]

International play is just three substitutions. Most first divisions are three substitutions, though I'm sure some might be five. I'm not aware of other 3+1 rules, however, the utilization of it in the MLS is so rare to begin with, I doubt I'd know about it even if other leagues had it.

[Richth76]

I thought the rule was put into affect to get coaches to use all three subs.

[jjayg]

Originally posted by deep-throat
Before someone asks, this is the way the "technical" aspect of the Law works in this situation. As MassachussetsRef says, after a team has used their 3 "field subs", the only sub they can make is a "goalkeeper for a goalkeeper". When Meola gets sent off, obviously they wont to get Bo (their backup goalie) into the game, so they make a "goalkeeper sub". How they do that - technically - is that after Meola is sent off, KC tell the ref that Preki is now becoming the goalkeeper; they then request the goalkeeper sub; Oshoni replaces Preki (who is now the keeper). Of course they do this without ever having to put Preki in goal - it looks funky, but is legal, and avoids having to make someone (Preki) dress as the keeper then come out immediately.

That is a great explanation! When Meola got his red I turned to my son and said look, now a field player has to play goalie (I remember last year there was a Serie A game where it happened). Preki was even putting on the gloves. Then they subbed in Oshonyi and my son asked how they could do that and at the time I told him I must have miscounted substitutions. But the gloves exchanging thing makes a lot of sense now. thanks.

[ignatz]

Originally posted by jjayg


When Meola got his red I turned to my son and said look, now a field player has to play goalie (I remember last year there was a Serie A game where it happened).

Something close to it also happened a year or so ago in a Scottish League championship when Jim Leighton, long time national team keeper, playing, I think, for Aberdeen, was kicked in the head when going down for a shot and was seriously hurt. It ended his career. Apparently only 2 or 3 subs were allowed, so his team didn't even have the #2 keeper dressed. A field player went it and, predictably, got beat. I recall seeing some of it on TV -- the poor guy looked like a deer frozen by the headlights.

[empennage]

Originally posted by Richth76
I thought the rule was put into affect to get coaches to use all three subs.

This is one of the few MLS only rules that I actually agree with. It encourages more subs, thus adding more excitement in the majority of games.

[firstshirt]

Originally posted by deep-throat
Before someone asks, this is the way the "technical" aspect of the Law works in this situation. As MassachussetsRef says, after a team has used their 3 "field subs", the only sub they can make is a "goalkeeper for a goalkeeper". When Meola gets sent off, obviously they wont to get Bo (their backup goalie) into the game, so they make a "goalkeeper sub". How they do that - technically - is that after Meola is sent off, KC tell the ref that Preki is now becoming the goalkeeper; they then request the goalkeeper sub; Oshoni replaces Preki (who is now the keeper). Of course they do this without ever having to put Preki in goal - it looks funky, but is legal, and avoids having to make someone (Preki) dress as the keeper then come out immediately.

If I am not mistake, the Revs did the same thing two years ago against either tampa or miami. In that case I believe the field player who took net actually had a shot against him before the backup was put in.