Roger Espinoza...Garbage or Quality???

Discussion in 'Sporting Kansas City' started by WizTilIDie, Jul 16, 2008.

  1. WizTilIDie

    WizTilIDie Red Card

    Jul 8, 2008
    Zards fan since 96' living in Toronto now.

    Just wondering what the opinions are on this guy. Ive seen him quite a bit. Watched him at BMO when KC visited a few weeks ago. thought he was garbage.

    Like i said though, i havent seen him as much as many of you. He was not completing simple passes, causing stupid fould, and got sent off in the end of it.

    Anyone else have any complaints about him. He didnt look ready for fullside action to me. Looked like a reserve team player that was struggling on the full team.

    Opinions please. Can anyone convince me of him?
     
  2. Felixx219

    Felixx219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 8, 2004
    Kansas City, MO
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He's a rookie. He has made dumb mistakes and doesnt make the best decisions but like I said, he is a rookie that hasnt even had a full season of MLS experience. I dont think you can really judge a guy until atleast a full season under their belt.
     
  3. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He's not ready for the first team, many of us have been saying this for a while on here. We see flashes of talent, but he's just not ready at this time. He needs to learn to keep his head during games, as both red cards were the result of him retaliating to rough play that he was getting. More time with pro players will hopefully give him that, but he just needs playing time with the reserves right now.
     
  4. WizTilIDie

    WizTilIDie Red Card

    Jul 8, 2008
    I completely disagree with that. You can say things like "hes a rookie" as long as he's contributing occationally (you know..like getting a few points here or there, maybe a big goal occationally, completing tons of passes) ...

    But since he's not doing that i think he needs to be held to pro standards..he is a pro after all. Im sure he is talented, but i think criticism can motivate a player. If you are a pro..i dont care if you are a rookie...shouldnt the positives outweigh the mistakes..

    i dont think they are at this point
     
  5. cjgwizard

    cjgwizard Member

    Apr 25, 2006
    LSP, section 129
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He is likely going to fall into the same category as Morsink was last season....CO likes him and will continue to play him until he gets comfortable. We will all have somebody to complain about during the process.
     
  6. WizTilIDie

    WizTilIDie Red Card

    Jul 8, 2008
    the second post is what im disagreeing with i agree with you kuhn
     
  7. Felixx219

    Felixx219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 8, 2004
    Kansas City, MO
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    I agree he should be held to pro standards and I also indicated that he has made mistakes. But it is not fair to write off a rookie with half a season of experience as garbage. You cant compare Espinoza to a seasoned veteran yet.

    I completely agree with the fact that he is not ready for the first team but I refuse to call him garbage yet.
     
  8. Craig-o

    Craig-o Member

    Sep 8, 2005
    Derby, KS
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know that I can say anybody on our team is doing these three things enough for our liking. Same could be said about our team's first touch and pass weighting.

    I like the glimpses of creativity that I've seen. He's solid on his feet, and will take some abuse...just needs to learn not to retaliate when the abuse occurs. Of all the young guys on this team, he's not one I'm ready to give up on just yet. That said, he's not first team quality this season. Maybe next.
     
  9. vividox

    vividox Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 10, 2005
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Espinosa is a very very very raw player right now. He hasn't worked out a lot of the mechanics in this league and his temper gets the best of him in those situations. He's got flashes of brilliance every now and then, but he really needs to isolate a pocket he's comfortable with and stay in it. He's a GA kid, so we've got him for a little while. CO and company are going to be trying to work out the kinks with him and forge him into a player that can crack the starting lineup week in week out. I think more than improving, that means him finding the pace of MLS and controlling his temper. If he's able to do that, I could see him be a solid player in this league - not extraordinary, but solid.
     
  10. BenC1357

    BenC1357 Member

    Feb 23, 2001
    KC
    Way too early to tell anything. He's played what, three years of competitive soccer in the states? I will say that the red cards don't help his cause, but I think we all know that. He's shown some skill though, especially in passing the ball in tight spaces.
     
  11. Felixx219

    Felixx219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 8, 2004
    Kansas City, MO
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wont say that I havent cursed him a few times this year but I do see where he could grow into a solid player. Even though he needs to be tamed, I like the fight in him. That can be a good attribute for a defensive minded player if it can be controlled.

    If we are going to start a garbage or quality thread it should be regarding Pore and Morsink. They are much larger liabilites for this team.
     
  12. Spoon

    Spoon Member

    Feb 25, 1999
    Overland Park Ks
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    At times you say wow he just did that! And other times you say WTF ARE YOU DOING YOU STUPID BLANKITY BLANK! He needs alot of game time, mostly with the reserves. The game for him, is to fast. If he gets it, I think he could be a nice MLS player.
     
  13. worldsoccer217

    worldsoccer217 New Member

    Oct 31, 2007
    Kansas City
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd agree with you regarding Pore since he's been in the league for 4 years and seems to be going back (which is scary regarding out depth at forward) but Morsink this year has actually shown improvement now that he's been put in a position where he's comfortable (and I'd have to say almost everyone in these forums has noticed that); I would like to see some more mental toughness but he's cut down on his yellow cards (but I digress...). The sad thing is that he is part of a midfield that has few assists and where most come off set plays so there are really few standouts. I'd give him another year before throwing him to the wolves (now Pore on the other hand):confused:.

    Regarding Espinoza he's a rookie that makes rookie mistakes; he just needs to keep his temper in check. Was he thrown in a bit too quickly? Maybe but like someone mentioned before that's what CO does with the players he likes; I guess it would be a baptism by fire; it worked with Harrington, jury is still out on Morsink, Myers has been up and down, and had Espinoza kept his cool it might have been a positive experience. All in all the talent for Espinoza seems to be there for a solid player, but with a bad temper he'll be our version of Ricardo Clark.:D
     
  14. donovano

    donovano New Member

    Dec 7, 2000
    Jefferson City
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We need a mid field and that is the only reason that Espinoza and Morsink are playing - they both need experience. Morsink is playing better but I doubt that we would start on many other MLS team. Let's just hope he keeps improving.

    Both Morsink and Roger need toughness - mental and physical. They miss KZ in mid because he has historicallly been a bit of an enforcer with solid firm play - these kids need a figure to toughen them up and teach them chippy finesse -

    Since we are searching for midfield and won't move MH I would like to see Chance and JL have a turn - both seem to have the ball skills and Chance has delivered some good crosses (as well as bad ones) but at least he is looking and he doesn't whack people in the back of the head.
     
  15. worldsoccer217

    worldsoccer217 New Member

    Oct 31, 2007
    Kansas City
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wonder if Frankie H. will be out there today whispering nice things in Espinoza's ear:rolleyes:. Scratch that, I know he will; I wonder if Espinoza has learned his lesson, either take it or get back at him, this time in a more subtle (not in front of the ref) way.:D
     
  16. Jarnevic

    Jarnevic BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 21, 2005
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would say he's quality garbage. Like a half eaten bag of Snickers minis. But better than a half eaten ham sandwich.
     
  17. Redfoot

    Redfoot New Member

    Dec 19, 2002
    Indianapolis
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He's very raw, but he's got some talent. He just needs experience.
     
  18. donovano

    donovano New Member

    Dec 7, 2000
    Jefferson City
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    FH knows every way possible to aggrevate him and then he also has the MNT mystic that allows MNT players a little more chippiness and a lot more protection from the refs - no one does it better that FH when it comes to thumping the opposing team - against Mexico in Columbus a few years ago it was a masterful performance of getting even and getting ahead.

    FH one of my favorite players - only JC and KZ are capable of neutralizing the FH testiness. Too bad for the rooks they will have another long bruising night.
     
  19. Highland_21

    Highland_21 New Member

    Apr 30, 2008
    It seems like quite a few people here are of them same opinion regarding Pore, so why does CO still select him in the 18?

    Players are supposed to be selected by current form, not reputation, time at the club or any other reason. From what I've seen in the past few reserve outings, Pore has not been as effective as Kraus or Pizarro, yet he stills seems to be ahead in the eyes of CO.

    As for Espinoza, he has shown glimpses of potential but to have a real impact he needs to work on his weaker foot. If you are a central midfielder who can't use both feet almost equally well then you are restricting your passing angles, range and decision making.
     
  20. kcscsupporter

    kcscsupporter Member+

    Apr 17, 2002
    D17
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    hence many of our (my, if you'd like me not to speak for anyone else) criticisms of onalfo.
     
  21. KCBearcat

    KCBearcat New Member

    Nov 16, 2004
    Kansas City
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And increasing your predictability...
     
  22. Felixx219

    Felixx219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 8, 2004
    Kansas City, MO
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought Espinoza had a decent game. He made some good passes and was making runs.
     
  23. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    His run on the goal was very nice.
     
  24. Felixx219

    Felixx219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 8, 2004
    Kansas City, MO
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    It was. I think that shows how much potential he has to be a good player in this league. He looked like he had more composure tonight. Hopefully the coaches and vets are working with him on that.
     
  25. matthias

    matthias New Member

    Jan 11, 2004
    opark ks
    Its a tough ball to hit right, Not Garbage. Looked confident for a rookie. Great Strike.


    m
     

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