[Excape Goat]

The 4-5-1 formation has a rep for defensive football. It seemed that the formation has evolved into an offensive formation since the WC Finals. Van Basten's team is flying through the 1st round with offensive football. I do not see much of Man Utd's game this season, but they were very offense-minded throughout the season too. Are we seeing a evolution of the formation?

[blueguitar322]

Originally Posted by Excape Goat

The 4-5-1 formation has a rep for defensive football. It seemed that the formation has evolved into an offensive formation since the WC Finals. Van Basten's team is flying through the 1st round with offensive football. I do not see much of Man Utd's game this season, but they were very offense-minded throughout the season too. Are we seeing a evolution of the formation?

I believe that, technically, the Dutch play a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3. I'm not 100% sure on all the differences, perhaps someone else can clarify. I definitely see the Dutch attacking midfielders / wingers working more with their striker (RVN) than, say, England when using Rooney as a lone striker.

[Excape Goat]

Originally Posted by blueguitar322

I believe that, technically, the Dutch play a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3. I'm not 100% sure on all the differences, perhaps someone else can clarify. I definitely see the Dutch attacking midfielders / wingers working more with their striker (RVN) than, say, England when using Rooney as a lone striker.

I think RVN is tracking back more than the usual lone striker. I could be wrong.... watching the games on TV can be misleading.

[Rainer24]

Seems like a 4-2-3-1 to me.

[rios]

There are 2 main forms of 4-5-1. The one Mexico plays is a 6:4, so generally considered defensive. But with one holding midfielder or fullback becoming an attacking element, the formation is turned into a 5:5 which is a neutral formation, just like 4-3-1-2 or 4-3-3.

Looked to me Neitherland is playing a 4-4-2 now?

[1shot1kill]

The Netherlands is playing 4-2-3-1, van Basten wants to play total football which involves when a player leaves his position another takes his place o the positioning of players never weakens. That is why you often see people like Kuyt defending and defenders like Boulah at the front. The problem with this system is to have it running smooth you need to play in 4-3-3 to make the switching back and forth smooth. 4-3-3 has not worked too well for the Dutch team so after consulting his team and hearing their opinions van Basten (and Van 't Schip, never forget about him being assistant) has switched to 4-2-3-1 which obviously is working pretty good.

Btw 4-2-3-1 is a variation of 4-3-3 and not 4-5-1.

[revelationx]

Originally Posted by 1shot1kill

The Netherlands is playing 4-2-3-1, van Basten wants to play total football which involves when a player leaves his position another takes his place o the positioning of players never weakens. That is why you often see people like Kuyt defending and defenders like Boulah at the front. The problem with this system is to have it running smooth you need to play in 4-3-3 to make the switching back and forth smooth. 4-3-3 has not worked too well for the Dutch team so after consulting his team and hearing their opinions van Basten (and Van 't Schip, never forget about him being assistant) has switched to 4-2-3-1 which obviously is working pretty good.

Btw 4-2-3-1 is a variation of 4-3-3 and not 4-5-1.

Agreed.

[Joep]

A big, big difference in the 4-2-3-1 that the Dutch play is that the "2" are basically players that could play among the 3 attacking midfielders, and that the 3 attacking midfielders could all play as one of the "2" controlling midfielders. Engelaar, for example, plays withdrawn for Holland, but he was an attacking player for Twente. He has the physical tools to play more withdrawn, too, but if he wanders up the field he'll look fine. Same goes for Nigel de Jong, who was making runs into the 16 yard box for Ajax before he left for HSV. an all rounder who can attack if you need him too.

The other way around it works the same. van der Vaart, largely due to his move to the German league (THANK YOU HSV!!!) has become a player that can fight for 90 minutes, who can track back but still provide the creativity when needed up front. Sneijder can do the same and we all know Kuijt, while probably the least a real midfielder, is probably more valued for his defensive workrate than anything else - but even he can provide assists or score if needed to.

These 5 midfielders mean that we don't have to wait for anyone on the break. After a corner, we can come out, and if Engelaar happens to be the most forward midfielder at that time, fine, no problem, Sneijder will stay back for a while and let Engelaar join the attack - remember who was in the box with Huntelaar for the goal against Romania? Engelaar, not van der Vaart.

As a dutch guy, i'm absolutely thrilled to see this. But this is not total football. It takes elements from that philosophy and incorporates them in modern football, which is a delight to see.

One last example I would like to gloat about is our second goal against Italy, on the break:

The first pass came from our number 10, who stayed deep, the cross from the left forward position came from our left back, the header from the right forward position came from our right winger who played right back for parts of the game and the goal was made by our left attacking midfielder who showed up on the #9 position.

[Equilibrium]

That second goal was ace indeed. Might be goal of the tournament due to the great teamwork to achieve it.

[Khaloisha]

Originally Posted by Excape Goat

The 4-5-1 formation has a rep for defensive football. It seemed that the formation has evolved into an offensive formation since the WC Finals. Van Basten's team is flying through the 1st round with offensive football. I do not see much of Man Utd's game this season, but they were very offense-minded throughout the season too. Are we seeing a evolution of the formation?

TBH Spalletti is using 4-2-3-1 since he's coaching Rome.