[YankBastard]

Je me demande si Thierry Henry fonctionnait jamais pour le président?

The rise of Barack Obama to the forefront of the race for the U.S. Democratic presidential nomination is holding a mirror to France as its citizens prepare to vote next month in 36,781 municipal elections. Moussa Deme laughs out loud at the idea that the French would elect someone like Obama, 46, to any political office.

"In France? Never," Deme, a 22-year-old Senegalese-born student, said on the way home from his job at a restaurant in Paris. "In France, it is impossible for a black man even to be mayor. They think it is enough that we are on their football team."

[alexandre!]

http://superfrenchie.com/?p=1472

The United States of America has been in existence for 231 years. In those 231 years, there have only been five black U.S. senators. Yes, Barak Obama is only the 5th black U.S. senator in history.

In that same period, there have only been 2 elected black governors. The first one was elected in 1990, and only one is still currently running a state.

Sure, there have been quite a few blacks in the House of Representatives. But that’s mostly due to gerrymandering, an electoral technique that consists of creating racially homogeneous districts from scratch.

Meanwhile, Gratien Candace, a black man, was elected vice-president of the French National Assembly in… 1938.

Gaston Monnerville, a black man, was elected president of the French Senate in… 1959.

Félix Éboué, another black man, was made governor of Guadeloupe in… 1936.

Rachida Dati, the daughter of illiterate Algerian and Moroccan parents, is the current Minister of Justice.

Rama Yade, who was born in Dakar, Senegal, is the current State Secretary in charge of foreign affairs and human rights.

Not that everything is fine and dandy in the political landscape of today’s France for blacks and people of Arab descent. But if we have lessons to receive, I don’t think this columnist from Bloomberg is qualified to give them!

This is a complicated issue that is not fairly summed up in either of our soundbites. I do not know why you are always so quick to show up with anti-France sentiment. I generally feel as though we as football fans should be welcoming of all cultures, since we are all tied together through the game.

[argaen]

If you asked someone before Obama came along if they thought that a black president would ever happen in their lifetime, I'm sure 95%+ of the people would have said no. The only difference between France and the USA right now is we have a really special individual in Obama. Someday someone will do the same in France.

[guignol]

obviously a more complex issue than can be described in a 200 word post, or completely butchered in a 2000 word one, but i'll permit myself a few comments that are neither here nor there.

the first question i ask myself is which obama we're talking about, because he stands for two things. first, a minority candidate, and that is a good thing. but he's also a pure product of communication, and represents not only a victory over racism, but also a victory of marketing over statesmanship, and that is no reason to rejoice.

note also that he is half white and half kenyan, so you could say that he and his candidature have nothing to do with african-americans and their heritage of 300 years of slavery.

could, but i won't, because it's irrelevant. still, those 300 years do enter into the picture. if in 2250 (say rather 2050, since there is a factor of socio-technological acceleration) there still hasn't been a president of color in france, there will be a true comparison, and a true problem.

we could talk about rachida data or yama rade, even if their token-ness is evident. but there's also césaire and senghor, and perhaps just as importantly blum and PMF, to refute the accusation that the res politica in france is completely closed to minorities.

[art]

Originally Posted by alexandre!

http://superfrenchie.com/?p=1472




This is a complicated issue that is not fairly summed up in either of our soundbites. I do not know why you are always so quick to show up with anti-France sentiment. I generally feel as though we as football fans should be welcoming of all cultures, since we are all tied together through the game.

Look at his avatar. we're americans. we're supposed to hate the french, silly.

[Ballon d'or Identity]

It really pisses me off (pardon my french) and never ceases to amaze me when people in the US, but mostly in France try to compare both countries. Some French Black people or french people with maghreb origins are always fast to bring to our attention that on the other side of the ocean, actors, politicians, sportmens, affluent people with other skin colors than the white one, have made it big (especially when black people are concerned).
While i agree with that statement as the Obama phenomenon shows,it'd be great to mention from time to time the BIG and MAJOR difference between France and the US and even between Europe and the US, as Europe is becoming also more and more multicultural :

TIME

The US has had black people in very large numbers on its soil for, well more than two hundreds years at least (feel free to contradict me if i'm wrong).
Therefore and because the living conditions were far from being ideal (to put it mildly) for them, generations spent their entire lives fighting for minimum rights.
May i remind some about the Rosa Park's incident in a bus in the...1960's...about one hundred years after the end of slavery in the US, and after more than two hundred years since the beginning of slavery on its soil.
Yes, as alexandre reminded us on the second post of this thread, it took 231 (I assume he did some researches to get that figure) years to have a serious "black" (how come his white heritage from his mother is forgotten here ?) contender for the white house. More than TWO HUNDRED YEARS...and things are still far from being rosy for them even today.

In contrast, immigration from Africa or from the west indies in France itself really took off in the sixties and had a huge boost at the end of the 70’s thanks to the law that allowed people from maghred and black Africa who worked in France to bring their family in France and live there.

That’s roughly 40 years maximum of experience with the this multicultural phenomenon, and still it’s only in the last 25 years that those minorities have really begun to say “hey I’m here to” and to ask for more equality in France, and rightfully so.

But it takes time to change, which is hard to accept for those minorities, because of modern technologies. We can see almost instantly the changes that are happening in other parts of the world and say “how come we don’t have that here”. It works for trends, it works for technology and for social changes as well.

The problem with mentalities is they are no trends nor technologies. And if the US has something to teach us when it comes to racial bliss, this is it : it takes time, and in their case more than 200 years.

The people with African origins in France, to understand my point better, saying things like what I just read in the Herald Tribune (in the first post) about the country they were born in and that gave shelter to their parents, should apply their remedy of more openness to their countries of origin :

When will we see a black man president of Tunisia or Algeria ?

Why is it that no Christians can have a prominent place in the government when they represent then % of the population and were there for more than a century.

How about the kurds expeled from Iran because as the minister in charge said “they are a burden for Iran. The money spent for them, is less money spent for the Iranians”.

Same thing with Khadafi so eager to lecture us on the way we treat immigrants here, and how immigrants are treated in Lybia.

I won’t even mention black Africa and the simple fact that because you’re not from the same tribe as the president, well too bad…

Yes, we’re far from being perfect, but perfection can’t be achieved when it comes to immigration, therefore there’ll always be upset people who will criticise France for not being able to do this and that.

I don’t think America (or anybody) can lecture us on how to achieve to make a society which will tend to perfection, simply because nobody found the right formula yet. We can be inspired by and given advices. And that’s not something the Herald Tribune did.

As for a serious black contender in France for presidential spot, well let me tell you one thing :

We won’t have to wait 231 years to have one.

[Chesco United]

A few points: The Rosa Parks incident was actually in the 1950s. In the US, thanks to the "one drop rule" of race relations, Obama is considered black, though guignol is right that he is not the descendant of slaves. As for the election, yes I'd like Obama to speak about more specifics, though with American politics the way they are, I can't blame him for not doing so. I'm just happy we have a major presidential candidate who can speak in complete sentences and opposed the Iraq war from the start. I don't know enough about race relations in France to comment further.

[YankBastard]

Originally Posted by alexandre!

This is a complicated issue that is not fairly summed up in either of our soundbites. I do not know why you are always so quick to show up with anti-France sentiment. I generally feel as though we as football fans should be welcoming of all cultures, since we are all tied together through the game.

Aww come on. I don't bring anti-French sentiment. Nothing much ever goes on in this board(probably because not too many Frenchies frequent American sawker sites). So I always start things just to keep the section running.

I like France. Lafayette was the ********ing man!

[guignol]

he's right you know.

[YankBastard]

Originally Posted by guignol

he's right you know.

Merci