Drew Carey on Late Late Show with Craig Ferguson talking Seattle MLS

Nice job, and yes he did specifically state - twice in fact - that the name had not yet been chosen.

 

He also said, "We're having a fan contest to name it." Make of that what you will.

Did he misspeak? Is he misinformed? Are fans ultimately going to choose in such a "contest" from a list of identities predetermined by ownership? Would Seattle Sounders appear on said list? Would the results of such a "contest" truly be adhered to? Has the recent contretemps over ownership's apparent preference for moving away from the Seattle Sounders brand caused them to rethink their strategy in that area? I'm betting it was a slip of the tongue.

 

I've got to wonder how "in the loop" he is with Roth, Hanauer, and Allen. Hopefully he is, but I could see where things may have progressed on the name, crest, et al and Drew may not be intimately aware of what's gone on the past few weeks.

 

I wager he was referring to the fact you can submit names via the website currently and not much more.

We can't be sure. I got the impression Drew wanted to talk more about his soccer team than the host did, and so he couldn't really go into the detail many of us fans are starving for.

I still say any intertube rage over the brand name and logo, should really be held back until the club makes it clear they've decided. Believe me, we will know before it is officially announced, and even when it is officially announced, a clever fan-based movement will invoke change if managed correctly.

Personally, I am tired of the obsession over the name. At first I cared a great deal about it, now I just want to see product on the field, and kits on the rack so I can buy them and support the team.

After seeing the passion on both sides of dividing line, I really begun to realize that the name is not all that important to me. I really feel it doesn't "link" history. I feel the history remains no matter what the color/style of the logo, but conversely "Sounders" isn't so hamstrung as a minor-league brand, as I thought it was.

Also in soccer, teams are called what the fans want to call their teams anyway. So "Sounders" will always persevere if enough fans want it to perservere.

Then again I do have a bias. I am a very angry, bitter NASL fan, and I still feel ripped off by that league, and I am not that keen to link to that era via the name. I wouldn't hate it, but I think NASL was an embarassing era in soccer, and probably held the sport back ten years on this continent.

Meh, really the more I think of it, I don't care about the name anymore, I just want to go see games and watch the franchise grow from inception.

 

NASL screwed a lot of things up: 35-yard line, annoying standings point system, lots of astroturf, poor judgement in the type of owners they accepted into the league, and much more.

However, the Sounders succeeded and won the hearts of the city nonetheless. They were one of the most successful teams on and off the field. What's more, intense rivalries were established with the Timbers and Whitecaps; rivalries that continue to this day in USL, and rivalries that I would love to see in MLS when the Whitecaps and Timbers join us. Keep in mind that those team will almost certainly not be changing their names, although the decisions our front office makes could influence what those organizations do.

The Sounders are not just about NASL and/or USL. They are about the strong tradition of winning on the field and the warm and sincere relationship between the fans and players that has made the team so beloved. For anyone that hasn't already been on the bandwagon, sorry you've been missing out all these years. Denigrate all you like; you don't know what you've been missing.

I suspect that Drew Carey is not in the loop on anything. I admire his desire to be involved, but I see him as a media figurehead intended to deflect flak away from the decisions of the front office. I hope that is not the case, but based on the things Adrian Hanauer and Joe Roth have said in the media, they contradict the spirit of what Drew Carey says. Notice how he is always quick to point out that he is just a minority owner.

- Paul

 

Huge difference between contest and poll.

 

Again, we've got to be careful. Such tricky waters figuring out what 'beloved' really means. Sure a certain segment of soccer fans in Seattle relish the Sounders as they have been and are now, but not nearly enough of them to make an MLS club thrive.

So we can over-exaggerate the way Seattle 'loves' the Sounders. Not many people actually do 'love' them as they now stand. Those that do show it in the ways they can, but they are a small, hardy bunch.

However, that is not to say that many, many more people couldn't grow to 'love' an MLS Seattle team called Sounders, and then retroactively 'get a kick' out of learning about the history.

As for Drew, I have an unanswered email in to you-know-who to get clarification, but I agree with Brian that it was likely just a slip of the tongue or misunderstanding. Who knows, maybe an actual 'contest' is what they are planning, but it sure doesn't seem like it right now.

 

The GM 'whose name shall not be spoken' has emailed me to verify that Drew was speaking of the 'submission' process Seattle MLS recently had on their website, not some future 'name the team' contest.

 

EXACTLY! Let's give the future fans that opportunity.

- Paul

 

I know my duality kills you, but I have always said that "Sounders" would be fine. I have also said the right kind of new name would be fine. I have leaned both ways over the length of these discussions, and I now remain in the middle, supporting the unnamed baby now known as "Seattle MLS" feircely and waiting to help pick up the pieces for whichever side is heartbroken after the name is announced.

 

You are equivocating again. No one will be heart-broken if the team is named Seattle Sounders.

- Paul

 

Better phrase: to help energize Seattle's possible doubters if the name is "Sounders," and to console the heartbroken if it isn't.

Sound more accurate? Because yes, a real segment of some size will be underwhelmed if "Sounders" is chosen. You've got to grant that as likely. The youth soccer circles I frequent would confirm it.

In either case, I see most of my work as coming later...and you see yours as coming now?

 

For what it is worth, (and its not much I admit), I queried friends of mine, that range from ardent soccer fans to casual fans, to still not sold on soccer at all.

I found that for the most part, the passion for soccer was not really a factor in their preference of name. What mattered was, how long they had lived here.

The longer you lived here, the more you wanted Sounders preserved, that was even true from the most casual soccer fan. This is especially true, if fans remember the 80's.

On the other hand, transplants and those who came to live here after the Sounders of the 80's, were more keen to ditch the name and start new.

Even my friend who signed up and got placement #104 or something, on the season ticket list, was indifferent to the name and prefered something other than "Sounders". He's lived here 15 years, but he's not native and was not here during NAL. He supports baseball, football and soccer with season tickets (with soccer he's involved in a community league) but he saw no reason to preserve the nickname, I was astounded to hear him say that.

So, I guess Sounders has real appeal to people who were born here, or remember the 80's well. That much is evident in my little straw poll anyway.

That means some of what bright says is right. While I disagree that history is preserved or linked via a nickname, I have to admit now, that Sounders has a link to people. In general that link is real to natives who remember the "old days". Those people by and large, can be the most casual soccer fan of all, but if they lived here all their lives, they seem to want Sounders preserved.

One native friend for example, is an ardent hockey and football fan, and does not care for soccer much at all, but when I asked him about the name, he was adamant: it had to be Sounders, or the team would be doing the city/community wrong.

To me, it seems the franchise has to decide whether keeping older, Seattle natives happy, has enough value, that they can live with an older brand that *might* not appeal as well internationally, or with transplants and newcomers to the town.

Really, from the dozen or so friends I've talked to, the line really is split between native and transplant.

I thought that was interesting enough to share that here.

 

Thank you, WestSeattle.

I was going to respond to another post of your's in another thread, but I will follow up to this post as it is a good lead-in.

In another post, you claimed that retaining or ditching the Seattle Sounders name won't have any impact on people's ability to "remember" history. That statement has truth to it, but it doesn't speak to what I've been trying to say. We can all read about history in books. I can read about the history of countries and nations that are extinct. But when I read about American history, I am reading about a thing that still exists and that people in the present time still identify with. And thus people like Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin are "my" people, and everyone else in this country are "my" people. And I feel a part of something so much larger than just the present moment, and the history takes on mythological proportions.

Do not discount the importance of this. We focus a lot in this country on business and money; and while those things provide the "machinery" of our society, an incessant focus on those things also distracts us from very real and in my opinion necessary spiritual qualities of life. We need more spirit! And I am not talking about religion. Spirit is derived from our mutual connections with each other and with our lands/places/homes. Spirit also engenders a respect for life. More spirit means more compassion. If we felt a closer spiritual connection to the earth, we would be more thoughtful in some of the decisions we make.

I personally do not adhere to any religion or spiritual dogma, and I enjoy having a mind of my own. I don't feel all that comfortable coming off as a quasi-conservative as I hammer away about preserving "tradition" and "culture". However, I think sports are relatively innocent (as long as they don't lead to violent conflict); and I think there is value in those connections to the past. Not just for history's sake, but for that mythological and spiritual connection to past generations. I think there is a growing tendency toward nihilism in our society. I love novelty and discovering new things, but we shouldn't seek to destroy the living connections we have with our shared past. Those connections are emotional and visceral.

It also helps define a community. That is why your friend who doesn't care about soccer is so adamant about retaining the Sounders name. The transplants may not care as much now, but I don't think they hate the name either. They are indifferent, or they intellectualize the aesthetic value of the name. They haven't had a chance to experience an emotional attachment to the name, and in turn they are missing out on a piece (a vital piece, imho, if you are a soccer fan) of what it means to be a Seattlite. Most of them likely haven't even had a chance yet to really settle in to being a Seattlite. Think of what it will be like for a transplant 5 years from now at a Sounders game. They will have a moment of, "Wow, this is Seattle!" And strange feelings from some distant past will rush over them. The name *will* affect the game day experience, as well as the regular day-to-day fan interaction outside of the games. They won't be able to have that with a name that is not Seattle Sounders.

I've used this analogy numerous times, but I liken the Seattle Sounders name to the preservation of Pioneer Square. In the late 60's, developers were seriously talking about demolishing Pioneer Square, the birthplace of our city. What a travesty that would have been. Saner minds prevailed, and now transplants and natives both can share in a visceral experience of a vital piece of Seattle culture and mythology.

I may not have been doing the best job these past few days of explaining myself. But it does bother me a little that people are associating my words with division when I see the Seattle Sounders name as a way of creating a greater unity with something bigger than ourselves.

Americans are too keen on throwing things in the trash. We always think there is yet another shiny new product down at the store that we can buy to replace what we've thrown away. Let's not make that mistake with our local soccer legacy. By retaining the Sounders name, we will be living our history and adding to it. Not just reading about it in an archive. I firmly believe people will be happier down the road with Seattle Sounders even if they don't understand why today.

- Paul

 

It's not just natives who support the name, and transplants who want it ditched. Dave Grosby, and Mike Gastineau, are both transplants, from the mid-west, and both support keeping the name.
I've noticed, both here, on other forums, and from talking to people around the area, the older, the more they want to keep the name, which doesn't surprise me, because, for the most part, teens & 20-somethings don't give a rats a$$ about anything that came before they were aware of anything outside of their crib.

 

I don't feel like an old man. I am only 34. But maybe my strong feelings on this subject are related to my father and mother both passing away under tragic and unexpected circumstances when I was 26, a relatively young age for such an experience. My father was 40 years older than me, and I am the oldest child, so there was also a large generation gap going back a lot farther than most people my age have with their parents. He was a window and connection to large portion of 20th century experience.

My dad was heavily into soccer, participating in the US Open Cup, coaching numerous teams in small towns throughout western Pennsylvania, and involving himself in the ASL and MISL teams in Las Vegas. Soccer for me is intimately intertwined with my father and with all the families and children (especially immigrant families) that we regularly interacted with in my childhood. I cannot fathom relating to soccer as merely a product to be bought and sold. To me, it is about people, smiles, and love. When Landon Donovan scored a goal against Honduras at Safeco Field, I cried like a baby as I thought, "Dad, look! American soccer's made it! Our perseverance and dedication paid off. We aren't pushovers anymore!"

My experience is unique and personal, but I have no doubts that there are numerous people in Seattle who have their own experiences with soccer-family-community. These experiences transcend the materialistic aspects of our society. And they CAN be shared. And names REALLY DO play a part in that sharing. A huge portion of the Seattle population grew up with the Sounders, and there are children growing up with the Sounders right now. There isn't another soccer team in Seattle that you can say that about. A lot of you may not have grown up with the Sounders, but you can be part of it nonetheless.

Maybe teenagers and 20-somethings haven't lived long enough to appreciate those bonds. In my early 20's, I wanted nothing more than to escape from the clutches of my family and my culture (both ethnic and American cultures) so I could be free to invent my own novelty and adventure. As a "have my cake and eat it, too" kind of person, I have learned that family/culture and novelty/adventure are not mutually exclusive. They both serve to form a whole person. So as we seek our own personal novelty, let's not sacrifice our shared culture in the process.

- Paul

 

This continues to pain me. I am really exhausted by Brights relentless efforts to say that the majority of the season ticket fans want the Seattle Sounders name. In reality, it's his own selfish thoughts that he pushes at us and then has the arrogance to say it's what we want or what we are thinking.

Would he really like me to start a group to lobby against using the Seattle Sounders name? Would he really like for me to encourage people to cancel their season tickets because the rumor is the team will use the Seattle Sounders name?

We have all seen he would come un-glued. So why push your crap on us. It's sick and disturbing. In fact, I get that slight vomit taste in my mouth when I come on to these boards and see his posts.

IT'S TIME FOR A NEW NAME. I WANT SOMETHING NEW

 

I understand that following a sport for a long time can establish a spiritual connection, especially if you played the sport in your youth. I also understand being a sports fan, can produce ties to community and its history, and that these are valuable things.

You don't need to explain these concepts to me. I spent my youth in Montreal, where literally sports affected the political landscape. One of the sparks of the Quebec separatist movement was an incident related to suspension of Montreal's favorite sports star, and the ridiculous language war in Canada is still fueled by hockey today.

In London, where I was born, sports can define the culture on so many levels it is difficult to even catalog. Even the ugly side of soccer-fan goonery, helped England stare itself in the face, and begin to smooth over its xenophobia, and to a small degree begin its assimilation into the EU. There were far more important factors certainly, but England's disgrace over thugs, made it realize that it was time to extend olive branches to continent.

There are positive influences of sport as well. Jackie Robinson probably the greatest example of this obviously, and of course my old town Montreal takes great pride in making that history happen. The fact he was a Montreal Royal, and not a Montreal Expo, does not diminish the tale at all.

All of these great pieces of history, that sports provides, aren't attached to a nickname and a logo, in fact they transcend them. The nickname and clothing worn by the athletes is not the primary connection, in fact just about every major city and every major sport watched corporate owners change the name, colors or logo at some point.

We're not cheering for laundry here, nor is the logo of the team what we pledge allegiance to, unless you are the most superficial or distant fan. What we begin to connect to is our own city, our own community and the sport itself. Those three properties combined, produce history.

The corporate "branding" is not really part of the equation. We focus on it now, because it sells merchandise, and produces colorful debate on Chris Creamer's site, and its as close to "fashion talk" as most men will allow themselves to get (thus we get the rather mamby-pampy uni-watch articles on ESPN).

Some men pay attention to the minutia of whether there is piping on the sleeve, but its not really the central part of the city's history with a sport.

The athletes and the community are the real link. The nickname has some traditional weight, but far less than the community and the sport itself. That connection remains between the two, no matter what the flavor of the day is for logo and corporate brand.

 

I am starting to think that I dont want a third version of the Sounders as well. I have never been fooled that the current Sounders were a continuation from the NASL group, and just carrying their name doesnt make them the same. The Sounders that captured my heart never wore red, didnt have a silly whale in their logo, and brought in talent from over seas to show me how the game was played. The Sounders that I wanted to be when I grew up played in front of huge crowds and captured the city's imagination. the USL crew is great, but they havent done this. It isnt the front office's fault. Something better has been out there, and Seattle has waited for it. The 11K strong season ticket base obviously knows the difference between the Seattle Sounders and Seattle MLS. IF they didnt we would have seen consistant crowds of at least 5k over the last years, but we havent. The tradition and legacy of Seattle Soccer is best represented by top flight soccer that was first broght to the city in 1974. The MLS squad, regardless of their name, will do more to honor that legacy than the current USL squad.

I am ready for a new beginning, and ready to start a new tradition. An informal poll of my Wednesday team last night showed be that 9 of 15 guys have placed deposits on season tickets. 3 of them frequented Sounder games. All of them knew of the Sounders (it is NOT a marketing problem), yet they knew there was a better level, and they knew that level would make its way to Seattle.

Lets Go Seattle.... (Sounders optional)

 

Oh, thank God we preserved Pioneer Square. I mean, where would the homeless people in Seattle sleep and beg for money if we had demolished Pioneer Square?!?

 

Hmmmnnn... let's see... Is this a FACT or an OPINION? I'll give you three guesses and the first two don't count!

Actually, at 39, I could care less about your and Paul's team name intifada, but maybe it's just because I'm young at heart (I don't feel a day over 38!). Please feel free to picket outside the matches I attend.