[lefutur]

"The White House announced today that President Bush and first lady Laura Bush will host French President Nicolas Sarkozy and his wife Cecilia Ciganer-Albeniz for a private lunch on Saturday in Kennebunkport, Maine.

Mr. and Mrs. Bush will be staying this weekend at the summer home of President George H.W. Bush, the president's father, in Kennebunkport.

The Sarkozys have been vacationing this week at Lake Winnipesaukee in New Hampshire.

Earlier this week, a shirtless Mr. Sarkozy lost his temper when he sighted two American photographers taking pictures of him boating with his family. The French president boarded the photographer's boat and berated them in French.

A White House statement about the lunch said that "the United States and France share a deep historic friendship and have worked together since the founding of our Nation to protect freedom around the world. The President looks forward to meeting President Sarkozy on his first visit to the United States as President."

Mr. Sarkozy, the former French interior minister, won election in May."


-- Jon Ward, White House correspondent, The Washington Times

[Catfish]

Thanks for posting that. I know that Sarkozy is closer to the Right
than the French are used to, but he is in no way Conservative...at least
according to my American understanding of the Political Right in the USA.

I agree that the US and France have historically been friends.
IMHO, the def. of a friend is someone that is close to you, but
it doesn't mean that they are EXACTLY like you. We have many things
in common with France, but we are also both different. I think that is
a good thing, but I guess when you ask a historian with an
openmind that is what you're gonna get.

[Douai]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Thanks for posting that. I know that Sarkozy is closer to the Right
than the French are used to, but he is in no way Conservative...at least
according to my American understanding of the Political Right in the USA.

Sarkozy and his party is conservative. It's just that the Republican party is further conservative than the UMP (Union pour un mouvement populaire).

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Douai

Sarkozy and his party is conservative. It's just that the Republican party is further conservative than the UMP (Union pour un mouvement populaire).

So would Sarkozy and the UMP be like American Democrats and the former Chirac was more
of a Socialist?

Merci.

[guignol]

left and right is so simple to define. first of all, are we talking politics, sociology or economics? next you have to look at the climate the politician has to function in.

here's an interesting example; as outrageous as j.m. lepen's image is, there's nothing on his platform that goes as far as some mainstream politicians do here in california. his daughter marine, much more suave, would do very well here and would not even be considered right wing!

sarkozy, in terms of law and order, is reacting to a situation much less severe than that in the US, and in terms that are rightwing here, but perfectly neutral for america, all but a few fringe politicians here are on his wavelength. in economics he is one of our most conservative figures, but the context in france is such that all of his reforms would still leave us in a social position that not even the left wing of the democratic party could dream about.

but if you transplanted sarkozy to california, would he be a liberal or a conservative? would he try to achieve the same state of affairs as he wants for france (which would place him just to the left of, say, ralph nader!) or is "conservatism" something organic, meaning he would retool his ideas to fit him into the same place in the spectrum he occupies here?

ps: chirac is not a socialist in french terms by any means, he is more conservative (meaning less activist) than sarkozy!

[guignol]

it's always the aunts and second cousins who haven't seen a child for a while who most remark how much he's grown, and coming to the US after three years i find the change astounding!

freedom fries were already getting a bit stale then, but they still were widely consumed; representing france in those days could be dicey, and although my kids were by no means ostracized at school, i know that a few of their classmates looked upon them as martians. adult conversation was often stilted, and the few who wanted to express support for french positions did so in hushed terms out in the garden.

what a difference these days! there are still a few (very few) "support our troops" magnets but not a single anti-france bumper sticker. the election of sarkozy is being used as a pretext for changing of many opinions, but it's just a face-saver. it has become so painfully evident that chirac was right and bush was very, very wrong, that only the looniest, those who equate public libraries with godless communism or consider bombing mecca a reasonable next step, still have a beef with france. the general tenor of things runs more to:

http://www.montereyherald.com/opinion/ci_6533846

[Douai]

Originally Posted by Catfish

So would Sarkozy and the UMP be like American Democrats and the former Chirac was more
of a Socialist?

Merci.

Not exactly. The UMP in general is right-wing, but they do have center-right members of their party, which is not an uncommon practice. The Republican party has several members that many consider to be moderate-right such as McCain and Giuliani. The Democratic Party of the United States is more of a center-left party. They really aren't as liberal as many Americans make them sound, and compared to the French PS (Parti Socialisite) they are pretty tame. I think Chirac would be considered more of a moderate-conservative.

[YankBastard]

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[lefutur]

I watched that show on PBS the other day. I think it was called "The Anti-Americans". I thought it was good but didn't really teach me anything i didn't already know except that i didnt know how much the Polish people love Bush.

[guignol]

poland is just a flat out weird place these days... they have the kaszynski twins as president and prime minister making outrageous remarks either antieurope, antihomosexual or antisemitic every week... they're ex-child actors; sure CA had reagan and arnold, but i don't think even we would elect mary kate and ashley! and then there's radio marija! i don't see why people are in a fuss about turkey joining the EU... today's poland is mars in comparison.