[Mehr]

Now that some veteran players have retired after this world cup what do you think will be the german squad for the European cup in 2004??? I see something like this, enke probably will not start but I think he should if he does well at Barcelona...

Enke
Metzelder
Nowotny
Kehl
Bierofka
Jeremies/Hamann
Ballack
Deisler
Schneider
Klose
Nueville???

[olafgb]

That's too early to say as we don't know what happens within the next two seasons. As it looks right now: Kahn will stay in goal as long as he plays - I hope that he voluntarily roams his spot after 2004 (but I am afraid that he still wants to be in the goal at the WC 2006 with 37). The defence is the real trouble zone with Metzelder, Nowotny and Wörns being seeded, but the two latter ones tend to injuries a lot. A fourth defender on international level is currently not in sight. In the midfield we've got to wait how Bierofka develops. Jeremies surely won't play anymore, but therefore there might be some talents who play into the center of attraction. Klose and Neuville seem to be seeded in the center, but forwards need actual good shape more than any other, so we'll see how the situation is like in two years.

Regarding Enke: I think he'll need much patience as young goalies hardly have a chance in the NT. If Kahn someone decides to retire, then Lehmann will automatically take his place. If Lehmann retires, then Butt or Rost are the next ones - absolutely stupid IMO as hardly any regular starting goalie is under 30 when he's getting serious playing time in the NT, but that's kind of tradition.

[Brihodge]

Olaf, I agree with you about the Keeper system, it just doesn't make sense to use a Seniority type system for keepers older doesn't equal better, and I think i remember seeing somewhere in print that Ollie was planning on staying until after 2006.

[KarlMai]

"seniority system for keepers in the NT":

You cannot say that this is true, regarding the tradition.

Let's see:
Toni Schumacher (number 1 for ca.1979-86): not old when he got it.
Eike Immel (1987/88): not old
Bodo Illgner (1988-1994) definitely not old
Andreas Köpke (1994-1998): rather old; but in 96 he played a stellar Euro 96 and was a big factor in winning the tournament; so at least until then it seems a totally good decision. I agree he had several mistakes in 98, so probably Kahn should have replaced him earlier. But that's the only case you have as a point for your argument. (And isn't that more "a coach's individual bad decision" than "the curse of the German system tradition"?)
Oliver Kahn: now pretty old; but look at his play.

All in all, one can hardly say it is in stone set that in Germany no keeper is allowed as No.1 in goal before he is 30, that's just not true.

It's not only for strikers important "in what actual shape they are", for keepers too. And if Kahn keeps up his form until 2006, well...

And if not: Don't you think that a man who is as professional and eager to perform his best as Kahn will in this case say by himself "If I'm not good enough, I won't play"?

[KarlMai]

But to sum it up:

Either way (Kahn or Butt or Rost or Enke or Hildebrand or whoever, Haas or ???): The keeper is the position we have to worry about the least...
So we shouldn't worry about that and look out where the defenders and strikers could come from. ^^

[olafgb]

Toni was 25; Immel (28, not very young) and Illgner (21) bad. The current system was rather established with Köpke (32) who got a guaranteed spot until he retired despite of weak performances in the last seasons - Kahn (29) was already better, at least in the last two years. And Kahn will be in as long as he wants to be - regardless how bad or good he is. In
2006 he'll be 37, at least a big risk. The new 'successor principle' got very obvious when always Lehmann was called as backup despite of very doubtful performances in the last two or three seasons.

Actual performance and nothing else should decide. If it's still Kahn in 2006, then okay, but if not they shouldn't think of all his good past but have a better starting goalie independent of the name.