[Asprilla9]

Originally Posted by sokol

I disagree that RSL's roster is weak.

you raise some good points. maybe i'm being too hard on RSL's talent. i still contend that RSL's backline is weak, probably either the worst or 2nd worst in MLS. if Pope is in as fine a form as you're saying, that may change that. BUT as you point out, they have a nice triangle of attackers in Adu-Ballouchy-Cunningham. if they could get these guys to really start producing, that would ease a TON of pressure off that backline. in a whole, 'best defense is a good offense' kind of way. for some reason, they don't seem to be playing with a lot of chemistry right now. some are arguing that Adu is out of position. personally i'm rooting for them to get it going for a couple of reasons, (1) i like Adu and Cunningham and (2) the situation in SLC/Utah. of course, they have to wait at least a week before they start turning it on ...

[Zoidberg]

Did this on the RSL boards but why not here.

Ellinger is everything that is wrong with coaching in this country.

He did a poor job with the U17's in hindsight. Kick and run ball from a full time, all resources availbale acadamy. Youth US coach supreme. Beat people by being in shape, with speed and strength. Against savy foes like Spain, Brazil, France and even very technical teams like a Japan, we were made to look like schoolyard boys. Pathetic.

The guy was a patronage hire by the good ole US boys club.

He had to be told after the 3rd cycle that he needed to change the way he coached. More possession and passing . He was freaking told this, yet he still was going to keep his job. The USSF at it's incompetent best.

Then along comes RSL. Stats wise it looks like he actually did a decent job with the U17's when in fact any person with soccer understanding and a clue knows he didn't. Unfortunately that isn't very many people here in the US. He gets' the job and proceeds to do what he has always done. (Note - the LD team didn't run into any good tactical/technical teams so they got away with it. That cycle in hindsight hurt more than it helped our youth program)

It is embarrassing that a guy with no track record of coaching men, or pros, or even playing himself at any decent level gets an MLS job. He has zero track record other than his U17 resume which was not good, but how the hell is DC going to know this? It's not BBall. He has to take the advice of others.

Who are the others? The USSF clueless/political/patronage posse that recommended him and gave the ass kisser a job in the 1st place. They clearly don't know much about the actual game either, but how does DC know this?

Ellinger wouldn't even be a youth coach for an NBA team. He is that bad.

No experience, no track record - nothing coaching men. Yet, he lands an MLS job. Joke.

Note - Any fool who wants to try and defend him with his U17 credentials is just that. A fool who is part of the problem. No real clue or understanding of the game.

John Ellinger does not know soccer. Only in the US can a guy this clueless rise so high. We just aren't ed-u-ma-kat-id enough in general.

Yeah, big pet peeve of mine. Coaching in the US. Ellinger style. Sigh.

I could do better and I bet quite a few on BS could also. Not high praise for myself or BS'ers either. JE is that bad.

[Defenestration]

i'm actually surprised there are 21 people who think he WON'T be fired before June 1st. the way RSL are going, I don't think Ellinger has another 4 weeks in him.

for all you that are voting 'No', is that because you think Checketts will be too conservative in his handling of the situation .... or is it because you genuinely feel John Ellinger deserves to at least finish out the rest of the season?

i thought everyone would pretty much be on the "Fire Ellinger" bandwagon by now, but people keep voting 'No.'


i think part of it is some confusion on my part. the thread title is "Will Ellinger make it to June 1st" ... and the poll question is "Will Ellinger be fired before June 1st." those are opposite questions, so if you didn't read the specific poll question, you may have just put 'No', when you actually meant 'Yes.' oops ...i really mucked that one up. sorry everybody.

[Asprilla9]

this is why i despise polls...

Originally Posted by Defenestration

i think part of it is some confusion on my part. the thread title is "Will Ellinger make it to June 1st" ... and the poll question is "Will Ellinger be fired before June 1st." those are opposite questions, so if you didn't read the specific poll question, you may have just put 'No', when you actually meant 'Yes.' oops ...i really mucked that one up. sorry everybody.

most people don't read the actual "Poll question". they read the thread title, then they quickly vote their answer to that. but since your poll question is the opposite of the thread title, those people would be voting for the opposite choice of what they intended. so, yes, you did muck this poll up.

[JohnR]

It would be delightfully ironic if Peter Nowak were offered the job.

[Sandon Mibut]

Originally Posted by Asprilla9

this is why i despise polls...
most people don't read the actual "Poll question". they read the thread title, then they quickly vote their answer to that. but since your poll question is the opposite of the thread title, those people would be voting for the opposite choice of what they intended. so, yes, you did muck this poll up.

Happened to me. I read the thread title and voted no and was surprised to see I was in the minority.

Then I read this post and went back and saw the poll was actually titled differently than the thread and it makes the answers the exact opposite, a little detail that certainly doesn't reflect well on the thread starter.

A very Ellinger-esque move, if you want to keep this on point.

[Sandon Mibut]

Originally Posted by sokol

There is, as always, the issue of finding someone better to replace him. Bradley or Nowak would be excellent options, but for various reasons I don't see either of them getting offers even if Ellinger were fired tomorrow. Whose left? A college coach? MLS assistant like Mariner? Former MLS coach like Dave Dir, Steve Sampson, Rongen or Clark? I don't think any of those guys are good options. Any USL coaches worth looking at?

I think this might be what saves Ellinger for a couple of months.

I can't see many MLS teams allowing their assistants to leave midseason. Unlike Europe, where this happens all the time, I don't think an assistant from one MLS team has ever been allowed to leave mid-season to become head coach of another team.

So, the top assistants like Hamlett, Mariner and Williams aren't available till season ends.

While a college coach isn't impossible, very few of them are going to leave the security - the top coaches never get fired - of college for the insecurity of an MLS job. The last college head coach to come to MLS straight from campus was Sigi Schmid - in 1999. That's how long it's been and how rarely it happens. Maybe Sasho Cirovski or Bobby Clark or Jorge Salcedo could be tempted with the right offer. But I doubt it.

The USL is an option but one that is rarely used by MLS teams. Who was the last former USL (nee A-League) head coach hired by an MLS team to be a head coach? Bob Gansler, again in 99, and he had a background that was pretty unique. Vancouver head coach Bob Lilley has a great track record in the USL and is probably worthy of a shot in MLS. But will the Whitecaps let him leave midseason? I'm sure he has a contract with the team and unless it has an MLS out-clause, I don't see him leaving mid-season.

Then there are the re-treads. No thanks. You can argue that Octavio Zambrano deserves another shot - his winning percentage certainly suggests he does - and maybe Dave Dir does, too since he never missed the playoffs. But both have been away from MLS for a long time and the rest of the retreads like Rongen (who wouldn't be available till late July, anyway) just aren't worth it.

And don't bring up Peter Nowak. If he wanted to be an MLS head coach right now, he'd be at DC United.

One exception might be ex-KC interim coach and long time assistant coach Brian Bliss. He was very well-regarded and it was actually a susprise when Peter Vermes went a differnet route and hired Onalfo. Bliss has a great track record as an assistant and knows the league coming and going. Just as importantly, he's available. If Ellinger gets canned sooner rather than the later, he's gonna go to the front of the list for replacements.

The other option is ex-players. Robin Fraser is the team's color commentator and he lives in Arizona, where he is running a youth team. There isn't a person who has been involved with MLS who doesn't think he'd be a good coach. But, he turned down being an assistant in Houston because of the instability so would he come to Utah full-time? It would take a pretty secure contract - a lotta guaranteed years and good money - to get him to go. Personally, I think he'd be worth it. You can bet that if Ellinger is fired that Fraser's name in mentioned a lot as a replacement.

Brian Kamler is working for RSL in some capacity and I think he'd be a good coach, though some will tell you he's too nice. So is Dave Sarachan but being nice hasn't kept him from winning trophies with the Fire.

So there are possibilities but not nearly as many as there would be if they were hiring in the off-season. And that works in Ellinger's favor.

[Bonji]

For Salt Lake's sake I hope not.

They can have Clavijo and we'll put Murphy in charge.

[Khan]

Originally Posted by Sandon Mibut

I can't see many MLS teams allowing their assistants to leave midseason.[SNIP!]So, the top assistants like Hamlett, Mariner and Williams aren't available till season ends.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Sandon Mibut

While a college coach isn't impossible, very few of them are going to leave the security - the top coaches never get fired - of college for the insecurity of an MLS job.

IMO, a bad idea. There simply are not the types of soccer minds left in college soccer that can lead men anymore. Soccer in the country has out-grown that option, IMO.

Originally Posted by Sandon Mibut

The USL is an option but one that is rarely used by MLS teams.

During the season, I agree. But after the season, there might be a coach or two that might leave. OTOH, ask yourself this: How can any of these guys be any worse than Ellinger's 15 wins in ~65 or 67 matches?

Originally Posted by Sandon Mibut

Then there are the re-treads. No thanks. You can argue that Octavio Zambrano deserves another shot - his winning percentage certainly suggests he does - and maybe Dave Dir does, too since he never missed the playoffs. But both have been away from MLS for a long time

Again: Would either of these two be any worse than Ellinger?

Dir's Dallas team was then-league owned, and he was likely given far less FO support than any other coach, save for the miami teams. Zambrano, again: Can he be worse than Ellinger? Honestly. 15 WINS in 2+ seasons for RSL! That is BEYOND incompetence. That's embarrasing to the entire league!

Originally Posted by Sandon Mibut

And don't bring up Peter Nowak. If he wanted to be an MLS head coach right now, he'd be at DC United.

I'd rather that he wait until Sarachan get fired. But he was out of contract at DCU, no?

Originally Posted by Sandon Mibut

One exception might be ex-KC interim coach and long time assistant coach Brian Bliss.

Agreed. He might be a candidate for NOW, with the possibility of winning the job full-time, as Bradley might with the Nats.

Originally Posted by Sandon Mibut

The other option is ex-players.

Sure. Pick one. There are a few that could win more than 15 times in 2+ years, just based on random luck. The RSL fans deserve better.

Originally Posted by Sandon Mibut

Brian Kamler is working for RSL in some capacity and I think he'd be a good coach, though some will tell you he's too nice. So is Dave Sarachan but being nice hasn't kept him from winning trophies with the Fire.

But even Sarachan's biggest supporter, Peter Wilt, has termed him "indecisive at times," which has cost the FIRE points and matches.

Originally Posted by Sandon Mibut

So there are possibilities but not nearly as many as there would be if they were hiring in the off-season. And that works in Ellinger's favor.

But pretty much anything would be better than winning only 15 times in ~67-odd matches. The roster is poorly-constructed. [6 Defenders, one of which is the oft-injured, ancient, and expensive Eddie Pope. 8 Forwards; Even playing 3 at a time, there are too many in the roster.]

The team has overpaid for middling talents ill-equipped to compete at this level. [See: The Kreis fiasco. See: The Joke that is Nick Rimando.]

There is scant hope for the near future, [wait 'till Mr. $400K Eddie Pope gets injured] nor the distant future. [Does anyone actually believe that Adu will stay in Salt Lake after this contract is up?]

RSL needs a complete break, from the coaching staff, to the FO who hired this joker. Its embarrasing to the entirety of MLS that this level of incompetence is tolerated.

[Zoidberg]

Originally Posted by Khan

RSL needs a complete break, from the coaching staff, to the FO who hired this joker. Its embarrasing to the entirety of MLS that this level of incompetence is tolerated.

Incompetence. That's about right.

You would have to fire the USSF guys also then. The ones who gave him the U17 job and let him keep it through incompetence and cluelessness, to the jokers who recommended him to DC. Too bad they ain't going anywhere. Need to get rid of a bunch of them.