I've read that there's has been alot of good Surinamese players (Edgar Davids, Clarence Seedorf, Frank Rijkaard, etc.) that have chosen to play for Netherlands instead of Suriname? Why is this? I would imagine if players of their quality chose to play for Suriname that they would be one of the top nations in CONCACAF? Is it because since thay play in Europe it's easier for them to travel within Europe and play for the Dutch national team? Or is there problems with the Surinamese soccer federation and/or the obvious extra travel the reason?
Although all the players you've mentioned above are of Surinamese descent, many of them were born in Netherlands (Gullit, Rijkaard). And the ones who weren't (Davids, Seedorf) arrived there at an early age. So, they all developed as both footballers and individuals in Holland. As a result, my guess is they consider themselves Dutch. Furthermore, if you're good enough to play for a major world power, why would you play for a team that has no chance of winning anything (b/c even with a couple of great players, Surinam would never achieve anything major at the world stage)? What's more questionable is why players who are not good enough to play for Netherlands don't instead play for Surinam, and instead spend their lives trying to make the Dutch team (I'm sure there are a few players of Surinamese descent who can't reach the Dutch team , but could easily play for Surinam, and as a result make that team relatively respectable). Separately, why is Surinam in CONCACAF, and not CONMEBOL? They're in South America.
well i think is because they love netherlands, is like an island from the caribbean loves france or england, places like guadalupe or martinica want to go to france. yes gullit, and rijkaard have ancestry from surinam, and they also prefer to emigrate to a better place, like all southamericans want to go to europe for a better future, in soccer, but they feel attatch to their background, and they love argentina, braazil, paraguay, uruguay, peru, colombia and so forth even thoguh there are some exceptions loike camoranesi im not gonna say he doesnt love argentina , but he decided to play for ITALY also i can say that holland along with france will have more black players, it amazing how surinam has done some much for soccer, i remeber i watchede a game guatemala, surinam guatemala won 3-1 but surinam sucked it's almost impossible to think of a surinam team, plus holland teasm they go to that country to observe palyers and they hiore them when they're kids
Well the last sentance shows you don't really know anything about Surinam but I'm still going to respond to an earlier point. How do you know a few of those players wouldn't be able to raise the team to achieve something. Look what Shevchenko did for Ukraine, or Adebayor for Togo. If Surinam had Davids or Seedorf how do you know they wouldn't be able to reach the World Cup?
I understand what your saying, but there's still alot of players who are in the same position as Seedorf and Davids, and still choose to play for the nation of their birth, (isn't there a few players who play for Croatia who are in that position?). I understand wanting to play for a powerful soccer nation like Netherlands, instead of a minnow like Suriname. But me, I guess I always like rooting for the underdog, and there's something appealing to me about being able to lift a minnow like Suriname into a somewhat respectable soccer nation. The idea though that they shouldn't play for Suriname because they will never win any trophy of significance I don't agree with. Ideally you play for the nation of your birth or of your heritage, and if that's happens to be Italy or Belize, so be it, that's who you play for.
I'm not sure I agree with you here. If Suriname had their good players, I think they would be a force in Concacaf and would at the very least win something. This type of thing happens all the time. France has done that with Henry, Thuram and others so it's nothing new. The problem lies partly with their federation. Holland has definitely benefitted. Suriname is in Concacaf for the same reason that Guyana is. It's strange but they're part of the Caribbean.
I didn't look up the dates, but is it possible that they were born as Dutch citizens in Surinam? When was independence?
from wikipedia.... Suriname is the birth place of many famous footballers who have gone on to represent the Netherlands international football team at international level or to take Dutch nationality. Below is a list of these players (SuriProfs). * Andre Wasiman * Andwelé Slory * Anthony Correia * Anton Vriesde * Armond MacAndrew * Aron Winter * Benito Kemble * Boy Waterman * Brian Pinas * Brian Tevreden * Bryan Roy * Carlos Hasselbaink * Cerezo Fung A Wing * Chedric Seedorf * Clarence Seedorf * Clyde Wijnhard * Darl Douglas * Dean Gorré * Delano Hill * Diego Biseswar * Dion Esajas * Dustley Mulder * Dwight Tiendalli * Edgar Davids * Edson Braafheid * Ellery Caïro * Errol Refos * Etienne Esajas * Etienne Shew-A-Tjon * Evander Sno * Fabian de Freitas * Fabian Wilnis * Ferdy Vierklau * Fernando Derveld * Ferne Snoyl * Frank Rijkaard * Gaston Taument * Geoffrey Verweij * Gerald Vanenburg * Gianni Zuiverloon * Gino Coutinho * Glen Helder * Gregory Playfair * Guus Uhlenbeek * Harvey Esajas * Harvey Wijngaarde * Henk Fräser * Henk ten Cate * Hennie Meijer * Humphrey Mijnals * Humphrey Rudge * Iwan Redan * Jermaine Holwijn * Jermaine Sandvliet * Jerrel Promes * Jerrel Wolfgang * Jerry de Jong * Jerry Simons * Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink * John Veldman * Jurgen Colin * Kenneth Monkou * Kenneth Vermeer * Kevin Bobson * Kew Jaliens * Kiran Bechan * Kurt Elshot * Leo Koswal * Leo Koswal Sr * Lorenzo Davids * Lorenzo Wouter * Luciano van Kallen * Maarten Atmodikoro * Maikel Renfurm * Marciano Vink * Mariano Carrilho * Marino Promes * Mario Melchiot * Mark de Vries * Marvin Brunswijk * Marvin Emnes * Melvin Brunswijk * Melvin Fleur * Melvin Holwijn * Melvin Zaalman * Michael Reiziger * Michael Schultz * Michel Nok * Mitchel Piqué * Mitchel Plet * Mitchel Schet * Nigel de Jong * Nordin Wooter * Orlando Engelaar * Orlando Trustfull * Oswald Snip * Pascal Heije * Patrick Kluivert * Prince Rajcomar * Purrel Fränkel * Quincy van Ommeren * R. Muskiet * Raoul Henar * Ray Frankel * Regi Blinker * Regillio Simons * Regillio Slijngard * Regillio Vrede * Reinhard Breinburg * Rodney Cairo * Rodney Ubbergen * Roel Liefden * Romano Denneboom * Romeo Castelen * Romeo Wouden * Romeo Zondervan * Ronald Breinburg * Royston Drenthe * Ruud Gullit * Ryan Babel * Ryan Donk * Samuel Koejoe * Serginho Greene * Sherjil MacDonald * Sigourney Bandjar * Soeres Badjoe * Stanley Menzo * Steeve Goossen * Stefano Seedorf * Steve Olfers * Ulrich Cruden * Ulrich van Gobbel * Ulrich Wilson * Urby Emanuelson * Uriel Trustfull * Urvin Lee * Victor Kros * Winston Bakboord * Winston Bogarde * Winston Faerber
Given that there are so many Dutch players of Surinamese origin, I have a few thoughts about this subject: 1. one would figure that a few would probably not be good enough for Holland, and thus would want to turn for Surinam. Not all Dutch-Surinamese are Seedorf/Kluivert/Rijkaard quality, obviously. There has to be a few that are just in the 3rd/4th divsisions in Holland (and that would still be good enough to try to compete in the Digicel Cup); 2. however, the Surinam FA probably does not have much money to begin with, and that would help in order to try to entice these players to play for Surinam (it would laos pay for flying costs, and whatnot). Having said that, I was just curious to find out how many players in Surinam's squad were Dutch-based in Group A (1st round)? Metro
Shit I read an article(if anyone can find it online please post the link) saying Suriname's government decided the allow dual citizenship for their Dutch-born or raised footballers in order to help their team qualify for the World Cup. I think with Holland's second-rate players and a Beenhakker harnesing their talent they could be a CONCACAF power and a shoe-in for every future World Cup.
Maybe after Beenhacker gets done with Poland, he can go to Suriname, they already speak Dutch there. We need more competitive teams in CONCACAF, and maybe Suriname can become one.
The problem with that list is that it says three things without indicating which of the three (or more) apply to each individual: 1) famous players (criteria for fame in this context? I recongize about seven names, but that isn't saying much! ); 2) players who played for the Dutch national team (how many?); 3) players who naturalized as Dutch. Also, the time period would be helpful - if this represents the short period since independence, that would be one thing, but a list encompassing the entire history of Dutch football is another.
Quite a bit of those players were good. Of course that list reflect different eras but within the current time period, could you imagine a Suriname team with Hasselbaink, Davids, Roy, Aron Winter, Kluivert,etc playing in WCQ in the Concacaf? Alot of teams would get dusted!
It basically the same situation that france has with most of africa, players know that playing for holland is alot more profitable and also allows for more club options. although i would enjoy seeing surinam keep some of these players they would be a good team and make for better competition. and thats what concacaf needs is more competition, thats the only way the teams will get better
That's probably what it is, it's more profitable to play for Netherlands than Suriname, also its easier for them to play international qualifing matches/friendlies in Europe than having to fly back to Suriname for it. Plus if you play for Netherlands, you'll be more appealing to clubs than if you played for Suriname. But it's sad for Suriname when you have so many quality players than can play for you, but you can't attract any of them. CONCACAF would be alot better if it did.
Back in 1997 when Jamaica was struggling in the qualifiers with some skillfull but undisciplined players from thier domestic league, their Brazilian coach went to England to scout, and came back with four Jamaican decent English players who helped the team qualify. After that, there was a floodgate of English players with Jamaican parents who wanted to represent Jamaica, and eventually the fans and federation got on the coach about players who didn't want to play until they saw a chance to go to the World Cup. Anyway if these guys saw a serious chance of getting to the World Cup(and realized how slim their chances are of playing for Holland) I'm sure they would go with Suriname. Nothing raises a club player's value than having played on the world's biggest stage. Just the players they already have would have to lay down the groundwork and get the team to the final round of qualifying.
yea is surinam somehow managed to make it to the 2nd round of world cup qualiifing or the gold cup some players might change their mind but the odds of that happening aren't to their favor
I wonder why the guys that actually play for Suriname are that bad then, they might not be Kluiverts(he sux anyway), Davids´or Seedorfs, but they should be a little bit better...
I think the coach for Angola did something similar when putting together their national team that qualified for this last World Cup. He scoured the Portuguese leagues finding Angolan players.
The main reason why Surinamese players don't want to play for Suriname is a financial one. 1 Suriname is a poor country, at least, the Government is. 2 Furthermore the population is small (400,000 in Suriname, 250,000 in The Netherlands). The Surinamese football federation would not be able to pay the tickets for the "Surnamese players" in The Netherlands to come to Suriname. 3 The Surinamese Government does not support the idea of two passports. (if you chose for THEM (netherlands), you chose against us (Suriname)) People with a Dutch passport have a doubtful status for Surinamese people. They are family but also "enemy", because they "fled"'. 4 The best (most talented) players of Surinamese origin I have seen were "full" Surinamese. Siegfried Haltman, Brammerloo, Roy George, Rinaldo Entingh, Errol Emanuelson (the father of Urby Emanuelson (currently Ajax) and a far better player than his son), Johan Leisberg, Lucien Playfair, Eric Godlieb, Dennis Bainoe, Wensley Bundel, and Edwin "Wiene" Schal. The were personalities on the field and far better then any of the "Dutch Surinamese players" I have seen (except Gerald Vanenburg). Why were they not discoverd by foreign clubs? Some were, Charlie Marbach was spotted by Real Madrid in the fifties, but his club (FC Elinkwijk) never told him about it. When he came to hear it, he started rebelling. Since then his career was over. Centerforward Iwan "Pietje" Fränkel played for Anderlecht some years (1960's). I remember his daughter showing me a FRONT PAGE of a major Belgian newspaper heading: "Black Gold for Anderlecht"". Haltman played for Sporte Clube America (Brazil) and scored the second goal in a 2 -2 draw against Flamengo(late sixties). It was his debut in the Brazilian competition. I don't have to tell you about the brothers Mijnals (four) who played for Elinkwijk (with Marbach) and got the public standing on their seats when they beat (and deliberately humiliated) Ajax in a 4 - 1 victory (1958-1959). For me Suriname's best player ever is Edwin "Wiene" Schal. Wiene played his last and biggest tournament in 1977 (or early '78). At this tournament Wiene scored zero goals. The topscorer was Suriname's Remy Olmberg who scored 7 penalties. Al seven penalties were given because Wiene Schal was brought down. Wiene was about to retire but prolonged his career till after this tournament because he was asked to by the Surinamese football Federation (SVB). Wiene got two awards at that 1977 pre-world championship tournament. One for the best player of the tournament and one for .................... the oldest. (37 or 38) I think it says a lot if I tell you that he got this trofee ahead of the great Hugo Sanches (Real Madrid) who was in his prime time. Wiene was the Surinamese Roger Milla, but was a better scorer. He can best be compared with Romario, he had the intelligence of Romario, only a little less flair. At his farewell tournament in Suriname the coach of the Brazilian Fluminense wanted to buy him .... until he heard his age (and that the tournament was organised for his farewell. I remember a Trinidadian sports journalist asking a Surinamese collague just before a game in 1977: "Is Wiene Schal retired yet?" When the Surinamese colleague answered negative he sighed: "Oh God, then we lose again". For those who don't know: Suriname's Transvaal was the first club to win the Concacaf trophee for clubs THREE TIMES (Seventies and early eighties). The first two were won when Wiene Schal was still playing. Lack of money, wich accounts for lack of facilities, lack of special sports diets, no professional competition etc. is the main cause of poor results in every poor country. As poor countries will develope themselves, much more great players will break through. A lot of great players around the world will never be seen because they are not spotted by scouts. Have you ever seen a South-American forward named Rosenthal? You won't, because his country will never play a major tournament.
Interesting thread. Have often wondered about Suriname's football troubles and the whole Dutch connection.
Suriname's little secret http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/news/newsid=692090.html#surinames+little+secret