[Der Stich]

Originally Posted by Sandon Mibut

My point is...there are players who will blossom during the next cyle and contend for places on the rosters while players who seem like locks right now will fade and not make the team when it counts.

Clint Mathis, please pick up the white courtesy phone...

[Liverpool_SC]

Originally Posted by Brian 231

Goalkeepers on the 2010+ fringe:

Troy Perkins- too overagressive, has had some problems with defensive communication, only his first year playing consistently on the top level.

Brad Guzan- Great size. Young, full of potential. Thrown right into the fire with Chivas USA and seems to have come through.

Chris Seitz- True Sophmore at Maryland. First goalkeeper since Brad Friedel to win the NCAA championship as a freshman.

Quentin Westburg- I haven't seen him play much, except back for the U-23 team. Anyone have any thoughts on him?

Just got to say that if Perkins is overaggressive, than Guzan is on crystal meth. He is much less composed in traffic. Perkins problem is his stutter-step that makes him glacial moving laterally on shots taken from distance and on PKs. If anything, Perkins judgment coming off his line is his best quality. He almost never misses a catch or a punch (at least not since the first game of the year). This cannot be overestimated considering that DC plays a high-risk defense and has some very unpredictable guys like Erpen who can expose him quite a bit.

Not to say that Guzan is not a better prospect over the long-term. Just that I disagree with this analysis of their comparative strengths in the 'box-management' area.

Also - Guzan does not seem to be in the rocket-science category and he can get over-heated emotionally. Perkins commands a lot of respect and has the mental/leadership ability to settle things down. Guzan occasionally looks like he is going to go DJ Countess on his backline.

Ultimately, I am not confident that either of these guys have the potential to emerge to the extent that Friedel or Keller have over the long-term. Then again, we have been spoiled.

[Liverpool_SC]

Originally Posted by Matrim55

He does have talent, but there are about 8 guys who have more.

Ten years ago, Parkhurst would have become the next Jeff Agoos (central defender version, minus the tricky left foot). I mean this as a compliment. Today he would be utterly physically overmatched.

The guy is going to have to adjust just to keep up long-term in MLS. Players are going to learn that they can simply run through him. I like him, but I am pretty sure about this. He is small and he plays smaller. Plus he plays an obsolete position.

[DGNB]

Originally Posted by Matrim55

AFullbacks: The right side is set for the next four years with Cherundolo, Albright and the developing Marvel Wynne.

The left side is a bit more up in the air. Heath Pearce, who plays in Denmark and had a cup of coffee with the nats this winter, is one of the frontrunners. He's a great athlete, good on the ball, but a suspect crosser. The other name is RBNY's Todd Dunivant, who's an improved version of Jeff Agoos/Greg Vanney. Great crosser, good on the ball, but not a good enough athlete to excel at international level. Tim Ward, an 18 year old with Columbus, is another to keep an eye on and has the most talent of the three, but looks years away to me.

EDIT: I forgot to mention Nathan Sturgis, who's smarter and more skillful than any of them. He's not a great athlete, though, and actually played most of his season at d-mid for LA. As a D-mid I rank him behind Clark and Carroll.

I have to add one more idea there. i would love to see Josh Gross get a try at left back. As you correctly pointed out, the wings are stacked in the midfield. However, left back is wide open and none fo theose players is a grat option. I think Gross, may not be the most talented player, but he is the hardest worker of any American player. His work rate is unreal. He would have the ability to play d and still get up the wings to cross the ball for 90 minutes plus.

[Liverpool_SC]

Originally Posted by Matrim55

The way I see it long-term:
1) Clark
2) Carroll
3) Mastroeni
4) Simms
5) Feilhaber
6) Beckerman

*Please note, Feilhaber is actually the most talented soccer player on this list. He's just not a d-mid, which is why he's ranked lower here.

I agree with this and it doesn't change anything. 6th best gets you decent minutes in our team over a four year cycle. Especially with Feilhaber not always being available, Simms potentially lacking opportunities and given the odd injury.

Also - Mastroeni is not any faster than Beckerman and I think he will be too long in the tooth (besides the temperament problems) by 2010. That puts Beckerman in the mix.

Remember that Zavignin got minutes despite all of these guys playing the position: O'Brien, Reyna, Armas, Mulrooney, Mastroeni . . . . And other guys got minutes right around him (Bradley, Carroll, Dempsey, Simms, etc). And that was with Clark basically getting ignored.

[Liverpool_SC]

Originally Posted by Matrim55

Reis cheats off his line, and scouts will know that. In the past two years Moreno and Djorkaeff have embarrassed him with goals that never should have been scored, and both saved them for crucial games. Reis may look good in friendlies for the US, but when it really matters he will get burned.

I agree on this point. Reis is great in this league, but he does not have the hands or mentality for the international game. Plus - the sweeper-keeper thing that he does is simply not prudent when you are playing against guys that can easily score from 40+ yards out. Reis has been caught out by plenty of players before (Pat Noonan) and if this (long-distance shooting/vision) was an area that MLS didn't have a considerable talent gap in - Reis would get exposed over and over (just as Pat Onsted and others would).

Plus, I don't care what your opinion is about Reis v Esky, Reis v Rolfe, Reis v Noel, etc . . . Reis is too aggressive coming off his line. International goalkeepers get called for penalties or even flat-out sent off for stuff that MLS keepers get away with. But when Reis dials back the aggressiveness - he is only a shadow of the keeper he is when he is playing totally instinctively.

[Matrim55]

Originally Posted by Liverpool_SC

Not as long as there is a potential to play more of a 4-4-1-1 or 4-5-1. I hope we don't see it again, but Quaranta can play higher up the field. His best position is actually in the hole.

Yeah, but Gomez's isn't. His best role is up top as a pure striker. They're two different positions, two different skillsets. They'll never be in direct competition with each other.

He is still way to young to write off. Especially if you are going to mention a guy like Gaven above. Look at their per minute stats in MLS. Also, Quaranta is capable of much more tenacious play then people think. He has been legitimately encumbered by injuries. There is good reason to think those are past and he is only like 22.

Gaven is a much better athlete than Quaranta, and much better on the dribble. And it's worth noting that Gaven put up his stats on a Metrostars team that was anything from dysfunctional to miserable, while Quaranta was surrounded by the best talent in the league and couldn't make the most of it.

And before you say "Well, that made it harder for him to break into the starting lineup!", it didn't. He was given plenty of chances to win the job and simply couldn't, and it wasn't usually because of injury.

Plus, Gaven is 2 1/2 years younger - there's a difference between "Just turned 20" and "Turns 23 in a few months," a big difference.

He looked great at times with the Nats before. I agree he is a bit of a headcase, but so are Gaven, Dempsey, Mathis . . . you are being short-sighted by looking past him.

I'll take this bet, and give you odds.

Don't forget that Earnie Stewart and Cobi Jones featured in matches during the last cycle.

I'm not sure how this is germane, as neither will this cycle and both were much more than tough guys who defended well.

Steve Ralston, Jason Kreis and others were still in contention when they were breathing fumes.

Ralston played his way into contention with a good 2005, and lost out because he got hurt. He didn't start breathing fumes until the MLS season, and I think that was as much to do with the emotional blow of missing out on his last chance at a World Cup as it was to do with injuries or age.

Kreis was never in contention for anything, let alone right mid. No idea why you bring him up.

This is still a position of weakness the day Clint Dempsey gets hurt.

Yes-ish. Yes because there's no ready-made replacement should someone take an axe-handle to Clint's ACL. No because I think we'll all feel comfortable with Feilhaber, Bradley or even Mapp here in the near future.

Plus, Josh Gros's versatility makes him much more valuable on the end of the bench than a lot of other guys who have been to WORLD CUPS over the past few years (Albright, Llamosa, etc).

Wow, are you doing a disservice to Albright and Llamosa. Gros is a nice player but he has nowhere near the offensive skill of Albright, who is legitimately one of the best crossers in the world, and nowhere near the defensive acuity of Llamosa.

Josh will never be a world-beater, but he is reliably capable of playing a couple of positions without letting you down against all but the FIFA Top 20.

If there are a rash of injuries - and it would have to be near apocalyptic - that would be fine. But he doesn't have the talent to force his way into the pool.

I guess I was thinking player pool and you were thinking "bona fide chance to be in the top 23. Again - you mentioned Nate Sturgis and Ugo Ihemelu. You should welcome a name like Moor if you put Ugo on the board.

Ugo has a physical presence that Moor lacks, and the gap in skill level between the two isn't enough to ignore that. Sturgis I never mentioned at central defender.

For the record - my criteria are "does this guy have a realistic shot to get minutes in a CONCACAF qualifier". For the "sleeper category" my criteria is "does this guy have a shot at getting on the roster for a CONCACAF qualifier". We all know that given the vaguaries and holes on the depth chart that a guy who puts himself in either position can turn into a 'can't miss' prospect almost over-night if he performs well in this position.

Yar, but I think some of the guys here are more than sleepers.

As I said above - I don't even LIKE Burciaga. But you have to be on crack if you think that Dunivent is as good serving the ball and especially on set-pieces.

Dunivant is actually a better, more consistent crosser of the ball IMHO. When it comes to serving in free kicks, I think they're roughly equal. When it comes to scoring off of free kicks, Burciaga is much better.

Burciaga has scored several goals every year from dead-ball situations. Dunivent has never scored more than several goals in his whole career. If the USMNT thinks about carrying a left-footed deadball specialist (not a bad idea on an away match during CONCACAF qualifying) then the USMNT could not do much better than Burciaga.

If we're taking someone for that role and that role only, Eddie Lewis gets himself back into the pool.

Of course, with one of Convey or Mapp likely in the gameday lineup more often than not, this is strictly a rhetorical argument.

Don't forget that this skill almost by itself was basically enough to get Goose a much more prominant role close to Japorea. Especially considering it was evident to just about everybody that he was already slowing WAY down.

Wow, do I disagree here. Goose was a starter throughout all of qualifying for 02; his role was no more or less prominent in the run-up than it had been for the previous three years. And I haven't watched the games in a while, but I don't recall Agoos taking a single free-kick in the attacking third during the WC02 tournament.

[Brian 231]

Originally Posted by Liverpool_SC

Just got to say that if Perkins is overaggressive, than Guzan is on crystal meth. He is much less composed in traffic. Perkins problem is his stutter-step that makes him glacial moving laterally on shots taken from distance and on PKs. If anything, Perkins judgment coming off his line is his best quality. He almost never misses a catch or a punch (at least not since the first game of the year). This cannot be overestimated considering that DC plays a high-risk defense and has some very unpredictable guys like Erpen who can expose him quite a bit.

Not to say that Guzan is not a better prospect over the long-term. Just that I disagree with this analysis of their comparative strengths in the 'box-management' area.

Also - Guzan does not seem to be in the rocket-science category and he can get over-heated emotionally. Perkins commands a lot of respect and has the mental/leadership ability to settle things down. Guzan occasionally looks like he is going to go DJ Countess on his backline.

Ultimately, I am not confident that either of these guys have the potential to emerge to the extent that Friedel or Keller have over the long-term. Then again, we have been spoiled.

Certainly Guzan showed in the last week that he has an agressive personality. But I think it terms of positioning, Perkins finds himself too far out from goal too often. There was one goal early this year that I think fairly illustrates my opinion. A long ball was played over the defenders, just outside the 18 and about 6 yards out from the end line. Perkins came out to challenge for the ball and was chipped by the attacker for a goal. My point here being that Perkins could have, and should have, stayed closer to net. There was no need to rush the attacker in that situation. In the end, a goal was scored out of a situation that wasn't that threatening.

Guzan does get over emotional sometimes. But I think his play will improve as he matures. Perkins does have 3 years on him, right?

Not to pick on Rimando, but to what extent do we like Perkins ability in the air in comparison to Nick?

[Matrim55]

Originally Posted by Liverpool_SC

I agree with this and it doesn't change anything. 6th best gets you decent minutes in our team over a four year cycle. Especially with Feilhaber not always being available, Simms potentially lacking opportunities and given the odd injury.

I don't think so, not with four of the guys ahead of him entering their primes.

Also - Mastroeni is not any faster than Beckerman and I think he will be too long in the tooth (besides the temperament problems) by 2010. That puts Beckerman in the mix.

Mastroeni is much, much faster than Beckerman, and I'm not sure about his temperment problems either - the guy has one red card in 50 or so national team games. That's not bad for a d-mid, and though the red card came at an inopportune time it wasn't for retaliation; it was from being overaggressive.

Remember that Zavignin got minutes despite all of these guys playing the position: O'Brien, Reyna, Armas, Mulrooney, Mastroeni . . . . And other guys got minutes right around him (Bradley, Carroll, Dempsey, Simms, etc). And that was with Clark basically getting ignored.

Of the list here, O'Brien and Reyna never were d-mids; they were played out of position. Armas and Mulrooney were constantly injured, and Mastroeni was the starter. Bradley, Carroll and Simms were all very, very young to be even considered for the role, and it's no surprise that none of them were able to grab it.

And for the love, Clark wasn't "ignored". He spent 2/3 of a MLS season as a starting d-mid, got shredded when it counted most (the playoffs), still got called up, then got hurt for 4 months. There was no reason to call him in previous to Autumn 05 - he hadn't shown enough "soccer" skills as opposed to athletic skills - and once he did get the call, he suffered an injury. The "Clark was ignored" argument is one of the most persistent and fallacious in the history of this website.

And all of this is ignoring the fact that from 2000-2005, Zavagnin was a better player than Beckerman has ever shown to be. The one thing he couldn't do that Beckerman can is score from distance, and that's not high on the priority list for d-mid.

[Rob Base]

Matrim, Your high opinion of Carroll has me intrigued? I've got him categorized as a serviceable MLS d-mid who was undeserving of the Nat callup he got, and my mental images are almost completely of him getting gone by and the cynically fouling the attacker(a "professional" foul that MLS d-mids are so fond of, and which I loathe as a fan and wish resulted in an immediate yellow card).

I'm rethinking my stance, though, as your team affiliation would seem to make you an extreme sceptic of any DC player. I'll watch this guy closely this weekend.

My hope is that we have enough up and coming quality central mids that we won't need a guy who's skill-set only permits him to effectively get the ball (or foul if you don't) and then back pass or at best pass square. I'm not talking specifically about Carroll here, just the US in the recent past. I've got no problem with a two-way mid (like Shalrie J if only he were American), but hate the "destroyer/back passer" role.