Many posters are apparently unclear as to what defines a Yank Abroad. A Yank Abroad, for the purposes of this board, is defined by: a) the player is an American Citizen b) the player plays in a professional league based outside the United States Things that don't matter: a) level of the league in which they play b) their availability to play for the USA National Team(s) c) their desire to play for the USA National Team(s) If you don't like to consider a player a Yank Abroad.... that's fine, but keep it to yourself. You don't have to read threads on all players, and you definitely aren't required to post about all players followed on this board. Posts that argue someone shouldnt' be a Yank Abroad even though they meet the definition of a Yank Abroad, are subject to editing and/or removal. Added on Aug 1st. Also included under the Yanks Abroad heading are Americans that are part of team management/ownership for foriegn based clubs. Thanks, and have a good day.
This is SOOOO overdue for this board... Probably still won't stop the hoardes of mouthbreathers who can't comprehend these simple rules, though.
I almost miss the Michael Ricketts days... I know you're joking, but this brings up maybe a couple examples... Guiseppe Rossi - born in the USA, plays in England. Has dual citizenship (USA/Italy) and prefers to try and make the Italian national team. --- YANK ABROAD Michael Ricketts - born in Birmingham, England. Apparently parents moved to the USA (don't remember if they became citizens or were just residents). Ricketts was hot commodity for 1 year and had said he wanted to play for the USA (even though he wasn't eligible) --- Not a Yank Abroad Ernie Stewart - born in Veghel, Netherlands to an American Serviceman father and Dutch mother. Lived almost entire life abroad. --- YANK ABROAD Ryan Nelson - born in Christchurch, New Zealand. Played college soccer at Greensboro and then Stanford. Played in MLS for 4 seasons before goign to Blackburn. --- Not a Yank Abroad (though we often think of him as an honorary Yank).
You are the Mod and since everything rises and falls on leadership and obediance I submit....I agree to disagre...though on one point..once a player rejects his country of birth to attend to his desire to play for another nation and or a player developed here but born else where does the same. I feel , and not in print here, that those players are Americans on paper andnot in spirit or heart are HERBEY HITHERTO HENCEFORTH HO HUMMED GIVEN THIER RELEASE FROM THE TITLE YANK! Please help them find there keys, there hat, there coat and the door....BUT I am now taking a vow of silence from all pessimistic replies..... and So say adu too mr. rossi
If you believe that playing soccer for a national team shows where your heart truly lies, then that's your perogative. Maybe David Regis treats July 4th as one of the most important holidays. He's probably still broken up over WC06 because his team didn't get out of the first round. I wish USA citizens took this much "National Pride" during elections and not just soccer teams. But in the end, I do appreciate you acceptance of the rules for this board, even if you don't agree.
The fact you even respnded to my reply is cool enough. In the " clicky circle" of American soccer... big soccer has its own corner. So yeah no problem here, I spend a lot of time reading and posting little. There are some great things said and posted here and some of course that are far far away from great. So thanks and God Bless the Yanks~
I am not challenging your authority in any way - but I do want to point out one thing. www.yanks-abroad.com defines a yank in a different way that what is laid out here. They still cover the obscure yanks, but I remember reading somewhere where they said (and I'm paraphrasing) "once they give up their chance to play for the USMNT, they are no longer a yank." I realize that this board is separate and not affiliated directly with www.yanks-abroad.com, but that site is referred to a lot, and the people who write for that site often post here. For that matter, many people who post here often refer to that site. They do appear to be sister sites, and with the difference in interpretation ... it's not suprising that people slip up on a regular basis. Since some people only follow yanks abroad who are aspring USMNT-ers ... should we just split this board in two so people who don't care about people like Rossi don't have to read about them, and people who don't follow the more obscure yanks don't need to read about them? Just a thought ...
The fact they are separate is important. Heck, we have different guidelines for various subforums on BigSoccer. The important thing is to know the guidelines, and follow them based on where you're posting. It's not the people that "slip up" that frustrate the rest of the board. It's those that complain "PLAYER X is not a yank" on a regular basis. New members to the board rarely if ever write a strong opinion on a players applicability and are usually treated with kid gloves. There is no rule on BigSoccer that says you have to read through every thread on a board whether you like it or not. There is also no rule that says you have to post in every thread you read. The simple answer is.... if you don't want to follow a player.... don't. Those that only want to yanks abroad who are aspiring national teamers should be content to not open threads on players they don't care to follow. It really is that simple.
You're almost Dutch. Someone states a rule and then everybody starts asking why and discuss whether another way is also apropriate
I appreciate the passion of those that follow (and post on) Americans playing abroad, but I continue to be amazed at how emotional it can get when determining who should be followed. Just posting to let everyone know that I plan to keep this thread small and to the point. I know we'll have some "fun" posts --- just don't be upset or offended if some gradually disappear.... so that the message of the thread isn't diluted. Thanks...
Had forgotten about this... Daniel Nardiello... Born Oct 22, 1982 in Coventry. Currently playing for Barnsley. Father = Welsh Mother = Puerto Rican Eligible to play for Wales (father), England (birth, father), Puerto Rico (mother), USA (mother) However, at the moment I believe he is NOT an American, but could gain American citizenship upon setting up residency in the USA (by virtue of his mother being from Puerto Rico). This is based on: Changes in Citizenship Laws (Thanks Shaydee) So, currently I don't think he is a YA, but could be one if he desired. Dissenting opinions?
I think he may currently be a YA, but one cannot make a determination without knowing whether his mother (A US citizen by virtue of having been born in Puerto Rico) applied for citizenship for her son as discussed in the final paragraph of your link and in the linked to section 322. In fact, I don't see why his case is any different from that of anyone born outside the US to one or more US citizen parents.
I think it's because we don't know whether he or anyone in his family ever applied for citizenship. Many of the Yanks Abroad born to American parent(s) while overseas are often born while the family is temporarily abroad. In this case, The mother is Puerto Rican and I believe has never lived in the USA but instead has lived in the UK for Daniel's entire life. Now Daniel's mom is definitely a citizen (assuming she hasn't renounced it) but it doesn't automatically transfer to Daniel in this situation. But as I understand it if Daniel wants to be a citizen, he can be.
Which is why I didn't say he was or wasn't for certain , just that I don't think he is. I say this because that's the situation if no action was taken. I assume that had the paperwork been done to make him a citizen, there would have been some news of it somewhere at sometime.
Thanks for putting up this thread. But I think (and this example points out why) that, historically, it is not necessary that the person is clearly a US citizen for him to be discussed on these boards. If (remember Ricketts) there appears to be a possible way for a person to claim US citizenship through ancestry or time lived in US (Miglioranzi?), it is pretty much apropos to talk about him on here. It is only when that door is closed that the person is no longer defined as a YA. In other words, your rules are right, but it must be clarified that until the person's status as a US citizen is clearly no, the benefit of the doubt says that we can talk about them. In short, M is right: AS LONG AS PEOPLE ARE IN THE GRAY AREA, THEY BELONG IN THE YA DISCUSSION BOARD. I also think people don't really object to an occasional update on a Ryan Nelson or Ricketts, or to updates about non-professionals abroad like the great Dontavious Fleming. But none of this relates to the true issue of why you posted this, I'm sure, which is that people always whine that XX player may have US ties but is a "traitor" and doesn't belong here, etc. And as much as I could give a rat's ass about Espen Baardsen, this definition we have been working with here works very well.
You are correct, and we tend to be fine with those in the gray area (I hope at least). To be honest, my putting up a general definition of a Yank Abroad was more for people to accept threads on certain individuals (such as Rossi), and not to try to exclude others. I think we do tend to give the benefit of the doubt - if I'm too strict and closing threads unnecessarily.... I hope people let me know as that's not my intention. Yes we occasionally talk about Nelson as a "honorary YA". For those who dont' remember, Michael Ricketts once claimed he wanted to play for the USA, only problem was.... he wasn't a citizen nor did he have any direct way to gain citizenship. As to Nardiello.... I personally don't have problems wtih threads about him, as he is in about the greyest of gray areas.
It's slightly amusing to see someone dismiss others, who disagree with them, as "whiners". Alas, regardless of topic, derogatory putdowns and name-calling are common defense mechanisms for many people, when faced with someone questioning their viewpoint. Many here, myself included, believe where someone's heart lies -- not just their legal standing -- is as much, if not more, important in determining someone's "yankness". Personally, I think of "yank" as an honorary term of endearment, and someone, who openly pronounces their allegiance or preference to another national team or country, doesn't deserve it. Further, I'd say giving them that title devalues it, and demeans those who do deserve it. You clearly disagree with this view, but it's a common opinion (hint: you can tell, because so many people express it). Regardless, I wouldn't let a difference of opinion threaten you so. Btw -- Moderators obviously make the rules. But I would venture to say the majority of those, who frequent BS-Yanks Abroad, feel the way I do on this question. If true, perhaps borne out by a poll, would our almighty censors...er, moderators....be willing to change the rules?
Actually, from the feedback I've seen... the majority is quite content having him labeled as a YA. Many for it, many don't care. The people who don't want to consider him as such are a very vocal minority from what I've encountered. (sadly I've encountered a good bit) Once again though, it's easier to include him and have some people ignore threads about him than it is to exclude him and force the others to find another way to discuss him. People just found it a whole lot easier to ignore threads about Rabchuka and others of lesser talent.
"Sadly"? Aside from it not being yours, what makes you "sad" about my viewpoint? I think the big difference in views here is that one group simply sees the term "yank" in legal terms, whereas another group sees it as something holding more meaning. I see "yank" as an honorary title to be earned. You, apparently, see no meaning beyond a legal definition. As I've stated, someone who renounces the USNT is not deserving of what -- to me -- is an honorary term of endearment. A Yank like Brian McBride, for example, does not deserve to be lumped into the same general category with people like Rossi. Calling Rossi a "Yank" devalues the title, and demeans those who deserve it. Just because a minority have been unwilling or unable to articulate this view, doesn't mean the majority doesn't hold this view. I think some people just aren't willing to publicly disagree with The Power (a.k.a. you and other moderators).
If they don't make their viewpoint known, then how can we count it? If someone disagrees silently, it is the same as agreeing silently. Sachin
I'd be willing to bet that those who are silent are definitely in the camp of they tend to agree or just really don't care and will avoid the threads if they don't. Typically, if you are in agreement with the rules, you dont' jump up and say "Hey I agree". It's the peopel that are against the status quo that raise a ruckus. Is this really THAT important to people? There are plenty of things to fight over, is this really the one people want to tackle? I'm being sincere here. I am flabbergasted (fun word) that people actually care that much one way or another. The intent at a definition was simply to put to rest the endless (trust me they are endless) posts saying "He shoudln't count" or "Hey he should count". Personally I expected that having the definition being less restrictive was the simple solution since people could simply not read threads about players they didn't think were YA or who they didn't care about. That erring on the side of leniency in the definition was the smart route. To be honest, restricting the YA board to only those that desired to play for hte USA National Team isn't feasable, nor it is necessary since we have the USA Mens boards. We can talk about the national team all we want there. This board is for international play --- primarily of clubs. YA isn't intended to be linked directly with the national team.