Reasons why MLS owners should invest in Sheffield Wednesday

Discussion in 'MLS: General' started by pc4th, Mar 29, 2006.

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  1. pc4th

    pc4th New Member

    Jun 14, 2003
    North Poll
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    After some research, I have concluded that of all the English teams, the best one to buy is Sheffield Wednesday. I will explain why.

    Reason #1: Stadium capacity of 39,814 seats

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Reason #2: Large fanbase in a large city.

    The team is averaging 24,453 even though they are horrible. They are 21st place out of 24th team. The city rival of Sheffield United is drawing 1,500 less even though the team is in 2nd place and likely gain an automatic promotion spot.

    Despite being at the bottom of the Championship, it is outdrawing these Premiership teams:

    Wigan 21,048
    Fulham 20,635
    Blackburn 20,362
    Portsmouth 19,725

    Reason #3: It's relatively cheap to own the team and the stadium

    For around $12 million, you can own the team and the stadium. The team has a debt of around $39 million. So for around $51 million, you can pay off the entire debt, own the team and the stadium.

    RSL owner recently bought a NHL team for $250 million. $51 million is not that much to own this team debt free. Which would be a better option? $55 million for a MLS expansion team ($15 mil) and half the cost of a stadium ($40 mil) or $51 million for Sheffield Wed and its stadium?

    Reason #4: Premiership TV revenue is HUGE

    Since TV revenue is shared, depending on where you finish in the standing, the team will get anywhere from $35 million to $55 million a year. Of course, the team needs to get promoted first.

    Reason #5: The most profitable football league in the world is the Premiership and promotion is worth at least $60 million to the winner.

    http://www.deloitte.com/dtt/press_release/0,1014,sid=9078&cid=50613,00.html

    Reason #6: Money Transfers and Free Transfers management

    Prevent free transfers: For example, Ryan Nelsen going to EPL on free. MLS could transfer him to the MLS-owned team before this happen. MLS could transfer players like Ruiz to this team (provided he agrees) before his contract ran out. In recent years, several notable MLS players went on a free to Europe: Ryan Nelsen, Mathis, Elliot, Bradley.

    Also, if the player does well on this team, he might receive offer from big clubs (Barca, Real, AC Milan etc). Thus, higher transfer fees return for MLS.

    MLS can also use the bargaining power of this ownership when dealing with clubs in Europe over transfer fees. If MLS feels that a player is undervalued, it doesn't have to sell.

    Reason #7: The league becomes more attractive to talents in the region and even to talents in South America or Africa.

    Signaling to the talents in the region that MLS could be 'the' destination before the world's richest leage (EPL). Garcia signed with Chivas USA because he thinks that he could go to Europe this way.

    Reason #8: Sheffield Wednesday fans would be more interested in MLS

    Just like Mariners fans are interested in the development of its AAA farm team, Sheffield Wednesday fans might watch a game or two and see potential talents that might one day play for them.

    Reason #9: Many of the most talented MLS players will end up in Europe. Why not make it to this MLS owners owned team.

    In the last 2-3 years, these MLS players have went to Europe. And in the next 2-3 years, we can expect about the same number of notable MLS players that will go to Europe like Dempsey, Freddy Adu, Eddie Johnson. Either way, talents wise, MLS will be the same under the Sheffield Wednesday option or the to various teams in Europe option.

    Elliot to Fulham (free)
    Ryan Nelsen to Blackburn (free)
    Mathis to Hannover (free)

    McBride to Fulham
    Bocanegra to Fulham
    Convey to Reading
    Damacrus Beasley to PSV
    Howard to Man U
    Ralph to some Russian team
    Gibbs to Feynoord

    Reason #10: Diversification

    For those that say MLS could use the $50 million instead of investing it elsewhere, I will tell you that MLS owners have many business.es This could be a seperate entity, a part of their diversification.

    Also, if they are serious in making money from soccer, invest in the most profitable soccer league in the world (EPL).

    Reason #11: Club Value Appreciation

    Expect the value of the club to increase by a LOT after promotion to Premiership. If MLS level is = to that of the mid-table Championship, 5-6 of MLS top players will help the team get promoted.

    Liverpool is valued at over $344 million. Sheffield Wednesday might be worth at least 1/3 if the 40,000 seats stadium regularly sell out and the team is doing reasonably well (mid-table in Premiership).

    Reason #12: Synergy

    Touring in the United States. Sheffield Wednesday with around 5-6 well-known American players tour in the U.S. should be successful.

    Sheffield Wednesday vs. MLS champ or MLS All-Stars.

    Reason #13: Most Sheffield Wednesday fans would welcome this move

    The fans are pretty unhappy with the current chairman (majority owner). The fans also want stability and Premiership football. And 24,500 in a 40,000 seats stadium does not provide as good an atmosphere as when the attendance is near capacity.

    Reason #14: Sheffield Wednesday is such a cool name.

    It is probably among the top 10 best football club names in the world.
     
  2. Roma_Wolves

    Roma_Wolves New Member

    May 4, 2004
    Austin, Texas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    very interesting. I wouldn't have imagined that a team could be had for so cheap. if I were a millionaire, I'd defiitely be keen on it...after starting my Austin team of course. :D
     
  3. dustcowpoke

    dustcowpoke Member

    Jan 7, 2006
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What exactly is the idea? Is it so MLS players can play in Europe? In other words do the MLS All-Stars go to Sheffield Wednesday. Could be very interesting to see an MLS star side facing off Prem/CCC teams.

    Thing is I've heard that Sheffield Wed are in deeper debt than 39 million. I thought at this time they were in the 50s million range. What did they sell another Wright-Phillips-like player to Chelsea for 12 million?
     
  4. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    If it was such a good idea, why aren't owners lining up? The problem is that no matter how good the fans are, income is less than outgo, and that ratio will only get worse if you want to make a decent team.
     
  5. DoctorD

    DoctorD Member+

    Sep 29, 2002
    MidAtlantic
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You heretic you. Don't you understand that the fan experience is the most important aspect of the game? Take your money-grubbing Americanism back to your side of the Atlantic! ;)
     
  6. kcscsupporter

    kcscsupporter Member+

    Apr 17, 2002
    D17
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    where'd you get the $12M number to own the team and the stadium?

    and i believe the debt is around 39 million pounds, not dollars - making it something along the lines of 60 million dollars.
     
  7. Fleetwood Mac #1

    Fleetwood Mac #1 New Member

    Mar 28, 2002
    Queens, NY
    The Eurosnobs are gonna ruin another poll. Their opinions or votes on this topic shouldn't matter because they don't care whether it's good for MLS or not. They just want American owners out of their leagues.
     
  8. pc4th

    pc4th New Member

    Jun 14, 2003
    North Poll
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I will tell you where I get the number.

    http://www.squarefootball.net/article/article.asp?aid=872

    This article is kinda outdated (2004). However, from the above, you can see that it would take £30 million to do two things:
    1) pay off the current directors (owners) like Dave Allen
    2) pay off the debt to the bank

    In addition, I went to a Sheffield Wednesday Board and ask their fans how much it would cost and if the above article is accurate. The answers are as followed:

    £30 million will wipe out all the debts and directors loans etc. then the investor/buyer will need to put money into the team and so will need over £30m but probably not £53m, depends how much is spent on building the team

    OR THIS ONE.

    No, it will cost £30million altogether. This will pay off the directors loans, buy their shares and pay off the debt to the bank. The problem is No one wants to pay £30 million to sort out other people's mistakes... the current directors won't accept anything less (apparently) and so it's a catch 22 situation

    If you pay the debt off, you then have to look at the club turnover, and pump an extra few million in each season for wages and purchases.

    Add to that the white elephant of the training ground and you're on course to understanding the huge job ahead.


    OR THIS ONE.

    It won't cost £30millon, that's just the debt.

    The board is owned in the region of £6.5million. Given them that back and they'll run for the hills I reckon. The bank will not expected to be paid the whole of their £22.5million. You'd have to pay a bit off and restructure the rest.



    Since the team also owns the stadium, if you own the team, you also own the stadium. And according to RichardL, stadium has almost zero value, which make sense. A house that nobody wants to use is almost worthless.

     
  9. pc4th

    pc4th New Member

    Jun 14, 2003
    North Poll
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You're WRONG. The current debt (May 2005) is £22.65 million according to their SWFC Annual Accounts Released.

    http://www.sportnetwork.net/main/s375/st82342.htm

    Hmmm, Sheffield Wednesday might be publicly traded becaue privately held company do not publish financial statement. I have to do some research on this one.
     
  10. afgrijselijkheid

    Dec 29, 2002
    mokum
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    first of all, michael bradley did NOT leave for free, heerenveen paid for him

    secind if all, are you sure the EPL would allow a league to own a team in engand and then shove free players into the side like you suggest? it seems like they might have a rule against such things

    even though it almost certainly is kindling as ideas go, i applaud pc4th for putting in the time, thought and effort to give us something interesting to kick around... duly repped



    cross for one, no waiting :rolleyes:

    MLS fans always sound like lucille bluth to me

    "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant... it just makes me want to set myself on fire!"

    [​IMG]
     
  11. pc4th

    pc4th New Member

    Jun 14, 2003
    North Poll
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ken Bates,the former Chelsea owner, wanted to buy Sheffield Wednesday. He wanted to invest 10 million pounds and was rejected by Dave Allen. The two do not like each other for some reason. Some Sheffield Wednesday fans signed a petition for Ken Bates to be the owner So yes, there are other owners lining up to buy the club.

    For whatever reasons, Bates backed out.

    Now, why MLS owners (Anschutz, Hunt, Kraft, Vergara, Checkket, MLSE, Kroneke) might want to invest.

    The simple answer is that they own Major League Soccer. This is a huge RESOURCE and a COMPETITVE ADVANTAGE.

    How good will Sheffield Wednesday be if they have the first pick of players that want to leave the Portugese League, or J-league or MLS?

    As I said before, about 2-3 notable MLS players leave the league every year. If MLS owners own Sheffield Wednesday, the team will have the first pick or first look at that player.

    Instead of:

    Elliot to Fulham (free)
    Ryan Nelsen to Blackburn (free)
    Mathis to Hannover (free)

    McBride to Fulham
    Bocanegra to Fulham
    Convey to Reading
    Damacrus Beasley to PSV
    Howard to Man U
    Ralph to some Russian team
    Gibbs to Feynoord


    It would be to Sheffield Wednesday instead (for say half of them) like Howard, Convey, McBride, Ryan Nelsen.

    In the next 2-3 years, just as many notable MLS players will leave the league. Why not have Sheffield Wednesday as the first for right of refusal? You can also use Sheffield Wednesday as a bargaining chip, too in negotiating with other clubs.

    Dempsey, Eddie Johnson, Freddy Adu are three notable players that will leave in the next 1-2 years.
     
  12. pc4th

    pc4th New Member

    Jun 14, 2003
    North Poll
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Opps. You are right. I forgot about that.

    Why would the EPL or Championship or the FA be against a bunch of businessmen forming a consortium and buying a club that is in a lot of debt?

    As long as there is no conflict of interest and the owners pass the 'fit and proper' test, I don't see why the FA would not allow Anschutz, Hunt, Kraft, Vergara, Checkket, MLSE, Kroneke to form a consortium that would buy the team.

    This consortium is a seperate entity from MLS so it is not the LEAGUE that is buying the club.

    Also, if it is okay for Kraft and Anschutz to team up and buy Liverpool, why can't it be okay for Anschutz, Hunt, Kraft, Vergara, Checkket, MLSE, Kroneke to team up and buy a team?

    Would the FA stop a bunch of MFL owners from buying Sheffield Wednesday just because they also own football teams in Mexico? I don't think so.

    Free players? Free players transfer into EPL all the time.
    However, most of the transfer into Sheffield Wednesday from MLS will be paid transfer, not free.

    I said this will prevent free transfers like Ryan Nelsen to BlackBurn or Elliot to Fulham. Why? Because like 1 year before the deal expires, MLS can say "how about a 100% raise?" and you can play in England too. As far as I know, there isn't an EPL/FA rule that say clubs can't transfer players on a FREE.

    Also, EPL has a "work permit" rule. It will be difficult to stockpile American players who do not have EU password or a regular NAT player.
     
  13. Prenn

    Prenn Member

    Apr 14, 2000
    Ireland
    Club:
    Bolton Wanderers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    1) Work Permits
    2) Sheffield Wednesday fans would hate this
    3) You've not even factored in how much money you would have to spend to get the team promoted, then get them to a position in the Premiership to make money, then keep them there.

    There's a reason why so few teams in the Premiership make money.

    Basically you know that you can buy the club for X amount and have a plan to bring cheap players in. You don't know anything beyond that and I'd be quite happy to bet my house on you losing your 'investment' rather than making any money.
     
  14. afgrijselijkheid

    Dec 29, 2002
    mokum
    Club:
    AFC Ajax

    i understand all that, but the way you suggest it comes off as pulling a fast one - letting MLS players transfer to the MLS investor owned UK side with no real market competition from the other teams in the league

    i'm not saying it is against the rules, i'm just saying it seems a very fishy ploy
     
  15. pc4th

    pc4th New Member

    Jun 14, 2003
    North Poll
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's an obstacle but not that big of an obstacle. A lot of MLS players (around 30 players) qualified for work permit or have an EU passport.

    Some will, but most will LOVE this. Most hate the current situation. Most hate their current chairman (who is also a majority owner). They want stability. And I believe most would want to play in the Premiership against the like of Man U, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, and NewCastle instead of other less well-known team in the Championship.

    That is true. But all business deal has risks. And I believe that this investment can be profitable.
     
  16. pc4th

    pc4th New Member

    Jun 14, 2003
    North Poll
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There is a real market competition. The highest bidder wins. If Freddy Adu is offered $10 mil by Chelsea and MLS believe he is only worth $8 mil, they will sell him to Chelsea instead of transferring him to Sheffield Wed for $8 mil.

    Oh, MLS will get paid for transfers by the way, just like today.

    MLS and Sheffield Wednesday might be own by the same people, but they are seperate business entities. And they will do business as if they are seperate entities. For example, HDC and the Galaxy. Galaxy pays rent to AEG's HDC business entity.
     
  17. kcscsupporter

    kcscsupporter Member+

    Apr 17, 2002
    D17
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    easy does it, chief... no need for all caps. i wasn't calling you out, i was just stating that i had thought i heard it was higher than what you claimed.


    i wouldn't say i'd hate it, because it would get rid of dave allen. i dont think i'd say that i'd LOVE it either. i'm already tired of lamar hunt here in kansas city.... i wouldn't want him involved with my other team now too. true, kansas city wouldn't have a club without him, but he's also done VERY little to make them successful (business-speaking) and he's now completely abandoned us. yes, both my clubs are in sh!tty situations.

    i understand what you're proposing. frankly, i just couldn't believe that it would be possible to own a team with a history like wednesday for only 50M. i sure wish i had 50M.
     
  18. Placid Casual

    Placid Casual Member+

    Apr 2, 2004
    Bentley's Roof
    Maybe Freddy Adu would sooner play for Chelsea. They couldn't force him to sign for Sheff Weds.
     
  19. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    One rejected suitor is not a line.
    How? It just looks like a money sink to me.
    But they can't have that right. You can't tell MLS players out of contract to play there, and even if they did it does nothing to help MLS.
    And why would this be a good thing? They would be entertaining Englanders, not Americans. What good would it do MLS or MLS owners to have American players there?
     
  20. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    1. This is a stupid, stupid idea. There's a reason the club ain't been sold.
    2. Work permits.
    3. What if the club loses money? You seem to misunderstand the likelihood of that happening.
     
  21. DamonEsquire

    DamonEsquire BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 16, 2002
    Kentucky
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For one, a loss in assests only shows goodtimes. You don't bet the house in sports and secondly can investigate ordeals. This means. Rumors, scandels, visionists ect... can all adabt to some style of soccer/football. I know a hard shot but it does happen from time to time. Thirdism would be money in abundance. Win lottery about $300 million. This happens annually. Take $50 million for a sports team. That is not bad. You have buisness invovlement and pay people. This does not even mention entertainment emotions. You probably could even vaction with technologies.
    Now downward spirl. First, I loss money. Well even a cancerous monster could live high for a decade. Secondly, these rumors remain unseen. Thirdism, qall english hate americans. Especially when hertiage isn't from spanish decent.
    A very nice exercise for the mind. I do appericate the reads. The first post really leads.
     
  22. pc4th

    pc4th New Member

    Jun 14, 2003
    North Poll
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You can't force the players but you can tempt them to play. Take Ryan Nelsen for example. You can tell him that he can play in the Premiership with 3 times the wages he would get in MLS.

    These players would leave MLS anyway. So they wouldn't be entertaining any Americans.

    Elliot to Fulham (free)
    Ryan Nelsen to Blackburn (free)
    Mathis to Hannover (free)
    McBride to Fulham
    Bocanegra to Fulham
    Convey to Reading
    Damacrus Beasley to PSV
    Howard to Man U
    Ralph to some Russian team
    Gibbs to Feynoord
     
  23. gaijin

    gaijin New Member

    Aug 1, 2004
    Malaysia
    Generally speaking most teams in Engand are losing money.

    Unless there are US benefactors who want to invest in a whim and offload a bunch of cash with minimal return - except maybe than seeing the team possibly promoted, then I somehow doubt that American investors will be queueing up to invest.

    Or if your man is a rabid Wednesday fan and will happily spend his cash on reaching his dream or quite possibly an uber-rich oligarch a la Abramovich - who can buy Chelsea the title and just waste only his 'pocket money'.

    If Wednesday were such an attractive proposition from the standpoints you listed, then buyers would have bought or be in the process of buying the club. Investors aren't stupid, they won't take on a gamble that could potenially lose them a massive amount of cash.
     
  24. Hierarchyfive

    Hierarchyfive Member

    Sep 17, 2005
    Portland
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This plan neglects that they are sitting in 21st in the Championship. What if they keep going down this route and get relegated? What happens to the investment now? They are dangerously close to the drop zone, and it wouldnt serve any MLS players to sign for a League One team.
     
  25. DamonEsquire

    DamonEsquire BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 16, 2002
    Kentucky
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes a relegation factor exist but it is all about the hunt. Very few people really succeed in sports. The key is getting money and redistribute it. That is a learning process in itself. So a team goes down, one can reach platue again. Take Leeds United. This is year two and it might need a third. However team is in decent postion for deregulation upon highness. After consulting in the dictionary, dereism really stands out.
     

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