[DoyleG]

Any comments can be put down here.

[albionroad]

Well, I would like to make a few comments about building a Canadian league. Partly referencing the past, but also the present and future. Hope that's OK.

First off, I'm not Canadian. I'm a Yank. I don't know TOO much about Canada, but I've kept up a bit with Canadian soccer since the CSL days so I'm not totally ignorant. That being said, here goes...

In my opinion, Canadian soccer is in the position of 'is the glass half-empty or half-full'? You can certainly argue that it's half-empty because there's no national league and one doesn't appear anywhere on the horizon. But you can also argue that it's half-full.

At the moment, there is the CPSL in parts of Ontario and Quebec...the PCSL in BC...and the AMSL (a lower level, but probably not by much) in Alberta. If I'm not mistaken, these are the four most populous provinces of Canada and represents at least 80% of the population. These leagues could certainly be fleshed out a little more, especially in Quebec. It's also not hard to imagine the creation of a 'central' league including Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Western Ontario and an 'eastern provinces' league.

If you split the CPSL into Ontario and Quebec, you have 6 regional leagues. Why not use that as a building block? Have an annual playoff at one site of all these champions, plus the A-League teams? These teams and leagues can gradually grow, build their fan base, build their youth programs and become more competitive. Eventually, if the support is there, another level could be built on top of that, with a West and East league, with pro/rel between the 6 leagues and the top 2. And so on...

Getting back to the history question, it seems that the lesson to be learned from the first go-round of the CSL was that there is simply not enough support for soccer to make a go of a national league. Start with what you have, and grow little by little. It seems like the way forward to me.

[Impact supporter]

Originally posted by albionroad

At the moment, there is the CPSL in parts of Ontario and Quebec...the PCSL in BC...and the AMSL (a lower level, but probably not by much) in Alberta. If I'm not mistaken, these are the four most populous provinces of Canada and represents at least 80% of the population. These leagues could certainly be fleshed out a little more, especially in Quebec. It's also not hard to imagine the creation of a 'central' league including Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Western Ontario and an 'eastern provinces' league.

If you split the CPSL into Ontario and Quebec, you have 6 regional leagues. Why not use that as a building block? Have an annual playoff at one site of all these champions, plus the A-League teams? These teams and leagues can gradually grow, build their fan base, build their youth programs and become more competitive. Eventually, if the support is there, another level could be built on top of that, with a West and East league, with pro/rel between the 6 leagues and the top 2. And so on...

Getting back to the history question, it seems that the lesson to be learned from the first go-round of the CSL was that there is simply not enough support for soccer to make a go of a national league. Start with what you have, and grow little by little. It seems like the way forward to me.

I could't agree with you more. Improving on the regional leagues like the CPSL, PCSL is the way to go as they would likely form the future second division in Canada. The other ones to look at are the LSEQ (www.lseq.qc.ca) and the AMSL (www.albertamajorsoocer.com). On the Praries and in Atlantic Canada it would make more sense to have an interprovincial circuit.

As for professional teams, they would likely be entered into the A-League or USL until such time that will be stable enough to break away to form part of the new national league.

In theory, the future D1 national league(named by someone as CPS, Canadian Premiership Soccer) with its east west conferences and the D2 CNS(Canadian Nationawide Soccer)with its 6 regional leagues, will possibly be the way to go in the future.

The only potential drawback might be is that will spectators be really interested in seeing clubs from outside the big cities. Ie would a person be really be interested in seeing a game between eg Lake shore vs. Flin Flon??????

Just a thought.

[albionroad]

Originally posted by Impact supporter
The other ones to look at are the LSEQ (www.lseq.qc.ca) and the AMSL (www.albertamajorsoocer.com).

How well do these leagues compare to the CPSL and PCSL in terms of quality? Any idea? Also, any possibility of teams from the LSEQ joining the CPSL?

The only potential drawback might be is that will spectators be really interested in seeing clubs from outside the big cities. Ie would a person be really be interested in seeing a game between eg Lake shore vs. Flin Flon??????

Probably not a lot of neutrals, but I'm sure people in the smaller towns would. Smallish crowds, of course, but that can be said for smaller towns in any country, in any sport.

[Krammerhead]

In terms of quality I'd guess that the PCSL is on even par with the CPSL. From what I understand about the attendance at CPSL games the crowds are bigger at most PCSL games. However the PCSL is strictly an amateur league at the moment and has a few American teams playing in it.

What can be learned from thre CSL experience? Don't dress your teams in gaudy cheap uniforms, and play in crappy stadiums (I think there are enough good stadiums in Canada now). Looking at old footage of CSL games you'd think that some teams were playing in public parks.

Other than that not much else is to be learned as the times are so different now. In the CSL days it was hard to get information about other teams in the league (all we had to follow the league back then was TSN and small blurbs in the local paper if we were lucky-and only about the local team). Now we have other sports channels, and most importantly the internet to follow the teams and league. It's much easier nowadays to publicize a team, if the team wishes to do so.

[DoyleG]

Originally posted by Krammerhead

What can be learned from thre CSL experience? Don't dress your teams in gaudy cheap uniforms, and play in crappy stadiums (I think there are enough good stadiums in Canada now). Looking at old footage of CSL games you'd think that some teams were playing in public parks.

We had good stadiums in the past, it just wasn't suitable for the fanbase. The big example being the Ottawa Intrepid at Frank Clair.

[Krammerhead]

Originally posted by DoyleG
We had good stadiums in the past, it just wasn't suitable for the fanbase. The big example being the Ottawa Intrepid at Frank Clair.

Winnipeg Fury at Winnipeg stadium also comes to mind. However I'm talking about games being held in an unprofessional atmosphere. For instance a couple of weeks ago I was going through old videotapes and I have about 25 minutes of a Brickmen-Fury game from Winnipeg. I have no idea where it was played (I'm not about to go find out) but on the TV it looked like a local park. All the seats were on one side of the stadium, and the camera was situated in the stands. So all the camera showed thropughout the game was the pitch (which was as narrow as a CFL football field-you could see where the soccer lines were the same as the football ones) and a small 4 foot fence which was all that seperated the outside of the stadium and the inside. I suppose many people got in free by hopping that fence. Anyway to get back to the point I'm trying to make is that it looked more like a mens beer league game in a local park than a professional soccer game.

[CalgaryMJ]

Originally posted by Krammerhead
Winnipeg Fury at Winnipeg stadium also comes to mind. However I'm talking about games being held in an unprofessional atmosphere. For instance a couple of weeks ago I was going through old videotapes and I have about 25 minutes of a Brickmen-Fury game from Winnipeg. I have no idea where it was played (I'm not about to go find out) but on the TV it looked like a local park. All the seats were on one side of the stadium, and the camera was situated in the stands. So all the camera showed thropughout the game was the pitch (which was as narrow as a CFL football field-you could see where the soccer lines were the same as the football ones) and a small 4 foot fence which was all that seperated the outside of the stadium and the inside. I suppose many people got in free by hopping that fence. Anyway to get back to the point I'm trying to make is that it looked more like a mens beer league game in a local park than a professional soccer game.

A definite improvement on Foothills though. While it would be great if we had the facilities for them, right now I'd accept a greater number of teams that didn't bleed money like a sieve so that the concept of building/improving facilities for them wasn't such a fantasy. I don't know of any locales that can do the "If you build it, they will come" scenario. With decent weather and decent crowds (slightly larger then the PDL ones of 2 years ago) a stronfg case could be made in Calgary for improvements that would make the franchise much more viable. Fingers crossed that the average game time temperature for the Storm this year is in the positive double digits - that alone would be good for a few hundred extra butts in the collapsing bleachers.

[Krammerhead]

As far as Foothills goes, I don't think that you need the larger crowds to make a case for a new or improved stadium. What you have now is unnacceptable from all that I've read, and needs to be improved or a new stadium found.

As for the "if you build in they will come" scenario, I believe that exists everywhere. The problem is keeping the fans returning after the new stadium is not such a novelty. If the stadium is a pleasant place to watch the game they'll return.

[DoyleG]

Originally posted by Krammerhead

As for the "if you build in they will come" scenario, I believe that exists everywhere. The problem is keeping the fans returning after the new stadium is not such a novelty. If the stadium is a pleasant place to watch the game they'll return.

Sounds a lot like Skydome.